Here comes the spin machine! (Our Take on AMD FX)

[Janooo]

Would you expect them to use benches of Marble Maddness or the available beta of one of the most anticipated games of the year?

What confuses me is why JFAMD would tell us all that IPC goes up. What is the point of deceiving there knowing that at launch he credibility would be gone. Infact, that should probably make it to our sigs. 😛

If I was his boss I would fire him for that or at least moved him out of PR and out of public view.
He is a face behind BD failure.

 

[BlueBlazer]

Has anyone checked out this AMD FX-8150 Black Edition CPU Water Cooler Review - Temperature Testing Results. Now I'm starting to see why AMD introduced water coolers. Overclocking up to 4.8GHz on budget air cooling solutions is not a good idea. Previously I suspected throttling in that FX overclocking video from NewEgg, and that may be correct (contributing to the abyssmal Cinebench result). :hmm:

First stop is where I was able to push the FX-8150 on stock air and the system not shut down due to thermal throttling, and 4.4 Ghz was that level. AMD said 4.6 GHz across all cores on air, we missed it by just a hair. I bumped the water coolers to their "high" speeds. The AMD water cooler still keeping the temps under 60*C, the Corsair H100 still slightly ahead of the AMD water cooler, and the Corsair A70 is loosing ground and barely holding the lead.

 

[NostaSeronx]

Has anyone checked out this AMD FX-8150 Black Edition CPU Water Cooler Review - Temperature Testing Results. Now I'm starting to see why AMD introduced water coolers. Overclocking up to 4.8GHz on budget air cooling solutions is not a good idea. Previously I suspected throttling in that FX overclocking video from NewEgg, and that may be correct (contributing to the abyssmal Cinebench result). :hmm:

It seems to be an issue with the September 12, 2011 - September 18, 2011 week/ 1137

But, no idea

the 1134/1135 weeks do not have the overclocking problem but they have the power consumption problem as well

 

[Obsoleet]

The excuses/false hopes will be many.

New OS patch will save Dulldozer!!!
New stepping will save Dulldozer!!!
New BIOS will save Dulldozer!!!

Or they could grab a page from Apple's "handbook":

You are benchmarking it wrong...*bom-tiiiisch*

Seriously, they had YEARS to prepare...no excuse is going to alter that fact.

You sir, are strange, and a little too involved with CPUs judging from this post.

 

[Lonbjerg]

You sir, are strange, and a little too involved with CPUs judging from this post.

Actually I don't care about Dulldozer.
Only thing that annoys me are people trying to sugarcoat a turd...but I guess this is how you try and feel better after waiting so long for Dulldozer...right? 🙂

 

[JFAMD]

I agree 100 percent. What I was trying to say is that JFAMD made no ridiculous or un-plausible comments. He said what most here wanted to hear, that BD was 'good'. I don't remember him saying it was amazing and would blow us away.

Did he know that IPC would go down? Probably. Did he mention this? No, he tried to use mis-direction. Could you imagine our surprise here (and many other places) if he went on record to say IPC went DOWN!? People here and on many other forums were expecting Nehalem-like IPC with awesome MT capabilities.

I am not covering for him, but I am saying what he said was very easy to listen and was what we were all HOPING for. A solid performer, no slower in IPC than PhII and better than the 2600k for most multi-threaded titles.

As soon as the early benchmarks came out, and we saw the non-confirmed numbers, then we really started to question the performance, power usage, and clocks.

A debacle in all sense of the word.

So here's the story on IPC from my perspective.

The original design goal was higher IPC. Back before we had taped out the first processors the discussion came up. I am not allowed to say anything in public that hasn't been vetted past engineering. I specifically asked the engineering team about IPC and they replied that they expected higher IPC and I was cleared on that statement.

In my estimation, I made the IPC stament on XS and I don't recall making it other places (but I am sure that my comments were reposted.)

This is not a case of me lying, this is a case of me being wrong. And that happens to all of us. There is no way that I would intentionally say something that I did not believe to be true because a.) the interenet is a permanent record and b.) eventually you'll have to answer to those comments.

In these different forums that I would frequent, I have made thousands of posts about the product, always trying to help people understand the technology. Everything was done with the intention of being informative. I never made client performance predictions and was very clear on correcting people who took server benchmarks and tried to correlate client performance, because it just doesn't work like that.

Since the launch I haven't really been in any forums because I was in Seattle all week with MSFT. Once the product launched, I started receiving lots of hate mail. If I had a dollar for every message that used the word f*** I would have enough money to buy myself a bulldozer server.

Early on there were a lot of people that said I was crazy for trying to talk to the enthusiast community, but I persisted, the occasional idiot is something that everyone has to put up with from time to time. But the volume of hate messages that I received has unfortunately convinced me that I was wrong.

I was doing this on my own time, it was not part of my job. And because of that, I don't really feel compelled to take any more abuse.

All of the statements that I have made at the time were statements that I believed to be true. I am no more a liar than Paul Otellini when he said IB would ship in Q4. He is not a liar, he is giving the best information he has at the time and things change. If you are going to extend courtesy to others when their statements don't pan out, you should do that with everyone.

Thanks to exarkun and some of the others that have had a reasonable response in all of this. Too many people were waiting to attack, it's almost like they don't really care, maybe they just like to fight.

 

[IlllI]

I pretty much figured you were given wrong information, or the correct information given at the time as you say it.

He is a face behind BD failure.

yeah. I knew that would be the case as well. People needed a target/outlet to vent. I would not blame him if he stopped posting in forum like this altogether

 

[lavaheadache]

So here's the story on IPC from my perspective.

The original design goal was higher IPC. Back before we had taped out the first processors the discussion came up. I am not allowed to say anything in public that hasn't been vetted past engineering. I specifically asked the engineering team about IPC and they replied that they expected higher IPC and I was cleared on that statement.

In my estimation, I made the IPC stament on XS and I don't recall making it other places (but I am sure that my comments were reposted.)

This is not a case of me lying, this is a case of me being wrong. And that happens to all of us. There is no way that I would intentionally say something that I did not believe to be true because a.) the interenet is a permanent record and b.) eventually you'll have to answer to those comments.

In these different forums that I would frequent, I have made thousands of posts about the product, always trying to help people understand the technology. Everything was done with the intention of being informative. I never made client performance predictions and was very clear on correcting people who took server benchmarks and tried to correlate client performance, because it just doesn't work like that.

Since the launch I haven't really been in any forums because I was in Seattle all week with MSFT. Once the product launched, I started receiving lots of hate mail. If I had a dollar for every message that used the word f*** I would have enough money to buy myself a bulldozer server.

Early on there were a lot of people that said I was crazy for trying to talk to the enthusiast community, but I persisted, the occasional idiot is something that everyone has to put up with from time to time. But the volume of hate messages that I received has unfortunately convinced me that I was wrong.

I was doing this on my own time, it was not part of my job. And because of that, I don't really feel compelled to take any more abuse.

All of the statements that I have made at the time were statements that I believed to be true. I am no more a liar than Paul Otellini when he said IB would ship in Q4. He is not a liar, he is giving the best information he has at the time and things change. If you are going to extend courtesy to others when their statements don't pan out, you should do that with everyone.

Thanks to exarkun and some of the others that have had a reasonable response in all of this. Too many people were waiting to attack, it's almost like they don't really care, maybe they just like to fight.

I feel like the biggest to problems in these forums and such are that people don't feel responsible for their "online" identities and the rest on them are just immature kids running amock. Thanks for taking the time to come in here and post. Hopefully you will continue to do so. Try to ignore some of the baiters. I used to get wrapped up in that stuff before but I try to look past them now and avoid the trouble makers.

 

[jacktesterson]

:hmm: I'm failing to see the downside here, regardless the performance of whatever is being held...nothing but profit 😛

I'm all for it

 

[BlueBlazer]

In my estimation, I made the IPC stament on XS and I don't recall making it other places (but I am sure that my comments were reposted.)

Then what about this post......

I have said it several times. IPC WILL BE HIGHER.

In these different forums that I would frequent, I have made thousands of posts about the product, always trying to help people understand the technology. Everything was done with the intention of being informative. I never made client performance predictions and was very clear on correcting people who took server benchmarks and tried to correlate client performance, because it just doesn't work like that.

Often your "corrections" resulted in a couple of guys who debated about Bulldozer's IPC, are now no longer posting (or banned, like what happened at XS). :hmm:

 

[Idontcare]

So here's the story on IPC from my perspective.

The original design goal was higher IPC. Back before we had taped out the first processors the discussion came up. I am not allowed to say anything in public that hasn't been vetted past engineering. I specifically asked the engineering team about IPC and they replied that they expected higher IPC and I was cleared on that statement.

In my estimation, I made the IPC stament on XS and I don't recall making it other places (but I am sure that my comments were reposted.)

This is not a case of me lying, this is a case of me being wrong. And that happens to all of us. There is no way that I would intentionally say something that I did not believe to be true because a.) the interenet is a permanent record and b.) eventually you'll have to answer to those comments.

In these different forums that I would frequent, I have made thousands of posts about the product, always trying to help people understand the technology. Everything was done with the intention of being informative. I never made client performance predictions and was very clear on correcting people who took server benchmarks and tried to correlate client performance, because it just doesn't work like that.

Since the launch I haven't really been in any forums because I was in Seattle all week with MSFT. Once the product launched, I started receiving lots of hate mail. If I had a dollar for every message that used the word f*** I would have enough money to buy myself a bulldozer server.

Early on there were a lot of people that said I was crazy for trying to talk to the enthusiast community, but I persisted, the occasional idiot is something that everyone has to put up with from time to time. But the volume of hate messages that I received has unfortunately convinced me that I was wrong.

I was doing this on my own time, it was not part of my job. And because of that, I don't really feel compelled to take any more abuse.

All of the statements that I have made at the time were statements that I believed to be true. I am no more a liar than Paul Otellini when he said IB would ship in Q4. He is not a liar, he is giving the best information he has at the time and things change. If you are going to extend courtesy to others when their statements don't pan out, you should do that with everyone.

Thanks to exarkun and some of the others that have had a reasonable response in all of this. Too many people were waiting to attack, it's almost like they don't really care, maybe they just like to fight.

John,

Thanks for coming back and owning up. I think we were more concerned that you had been sent here to fool us and our worst fears were going to be confirmed by you never coming back. But you did come back, and our worst fears of what had happened turn out to be unfounded, you weren't here before to intentionally mislead us, you were here giving us the most honest information you had to communicate.

This has "honest mistake" written all over it, if it can even be called a mistake. But it was not an intentional willful effort to deceive, that much is clear.

I recently posted up a lengthy detailed power-consumption thread here, turns out it was 98% wrong in all the ways that mattered. I didn't lie, but I was dead wrong and it was a colossal blunder considering the level of effort and time that was negated by my making a few simple mistakes. Now I've been corrected, life goes on.

Please don't let the flaming anti-AMD fanboys get you down. There are lots and lots of people around here that enjoyed your presence, above and beyond all the bulldozer talk, and for that to be a victim of a few incorrect posts about bulldozer's IPC would be a tragedy that I hope to avoid.

In regards to those members who were at odds with you over the position of IPC, those members had the choice of engaging you with respect and civility or with a bad attitude, disrespect, and flaming.

No one got reprimanded because you were right about IPC and they were treated as being wrong, people got reprimands because of their own failings in handling the disagreement in a respectful manner. The personal attacks and so on were not acceptable regardless whether or not you were right or wrong about the IPC of bulldozer. Do not let anyone try and make you feel guilty there.

In VC&G we had another member who came from industry that talked up some GPU products prior to their launch, only for the products to fall flat in just about every regard. He got a lot of backlash at first too, but then the community got over its collective butthurt and we moved on, and he stuck around, and we are all the better for it.

John, please don't leave the AnandTech Forums. You add value and we all have enjoyable conversations and interactions with you, as a member and as a person. We have all been wrong, it happens, and no one from AnandTech should be harassing you, if they are then we (the moderators) want to know about it because it is not allowed.

Warm Regards,
Phil (aka IDC)

 

[exar333]

So here's the story on IPC from my perspective.

The original design goal was higher IPC. Back before we had taped out the first processors the discussion came up. I am not allowed to say anything in public that hasn't been vetted past engineering. I specifically asked the engineering team about IPC and they replied that they expected higher IPC and I was cleared on that statement.

In my estimation, I made the IPC stament on XS and I don't recall making it other places (but I am sure that my comments were reposted.)

This is not a case of me lying, this is a case of me being wrong. And that happens to all of us. There is no way that I would intentionally say something that I did not believe to be true because a.) the interenet is a permanent record and b.) eventually you'll have to answer to those comments.

In these different forums that I would frequent, I have made thousands of posts about the product, always trying to help people understand the technology. Everything was done with the intention of being informative. I never made client performance predictions and was very clear on correcting people who took server benchmarks and tried to correlate client performance, because it just doesn't work like that.

Since the launch I haven't really been in any forums because I was in Seattle all week with MSFT. Once the product launched, I started receiving lots of hate mail. If I had a dollar for every message that used the word f*** I would have enough money to buy myself a bulldozer server.

Early on there were a lot of people that said I was crazy for trying to talk to the enthusiast community, but I persisted, the occasional idiot is something that everyone has to put up with from time to time. But the volume of hate messages that I received has unfortunately convinced me that I was wrong.

I was doing this on my own time, it was not part of my job. And because of that, I don't really feel compelled to take any more abuse.

All of the statements that I have made at the time were statements that I believed to be true. I am no more a liar than Paul Otellini when he said IB would ship in Q4. He is not a liar, he is giving the best information he has at the time and things change. If you are going to extend courtesy to others when their statements don't pan out, you should do that with everyone.

Thanks to exarkun and some of the others that have had a reasonable response in all of this. Too many people were waiting to attack, it's almost like they don't really care, maybe they just like to fight.

I can certainly tell you I would not want to be in your shoes right now, some folks really take these things a little to seriously. Hate mail over a CPU is just rediculous...

The real issue I think folks were the most upset about the launch is that people really want AMD to be competitive. When BD came out, it wasn't just 'meh' but it had some alarming issues (clock speed/power consumption/IPC). Lot's of people here (and other places) were skeptical, but still hoping it would turn out a solid performer.

My opinion doesn't mean much to AMD, but increased transparency would be a HUGE help for their next big release. Provide the rabid fans some established performance numbers, be realistic with performance claims, and be honest in relation to expectations. That will go a long way to helping to make the launches go smoother and get faith back into AMD releases. Just my $0.02.

 

[alyarb]

GloFo is responsible for the wretched thermals, but they DO know how to mature a process after the dust settles. I also think BD should've been withheld. Software developers can't be blindsided by this ridiculous departure in CPU convention. BD should've been a closed beta for OS and app writers to learn from and Piledriver should've been the actual launch for volume. This would have given AMD ~6-8 months' time to bring in revenue from 32nm Magny, Thuban, and Zosma parts and, just as important, to allow GloFo to fine tune their process. There are very good reasons intel does tick-tock. They mention them in every speech.

I don't know why AMD is so reluctant to catch on. It's been a rule of thumb for the longest time. You can't launch a new arch on a new node unless you want your customers to hate the arch and your process tech.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Kudos to JFAMD for coming back and posting. Mistakes happen, plans change, etc. and people just need to understand that is the way the world works.

Look at the bright side, JFAMD -- at least you're not in PR for Netflix. 😉

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Snip.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

At the end of the day you're just a guy who does cool stuff for a company that makes cool products. Anyone who harasses you over your unofficial posts on an internet forum simply isn't worth listening to.

 

[HurleyBird]

So here's the story on IPC from my perspective.

The original design goal was higher IPC. Back before we had taped out the first processors the discussion came up. I am not allowed to say anything in public that hasn't been vetted past engineering. I specifically asked the engineering team about IPC and they replied that they expected higher IPC and I was cleared on that statement.

I guess this confirms that there are major issues with this iteration of bulldozer, and that the lowered IPC was not by design. It also sounds like if Bulldozer came out the way you guys wanted, it would have been quite the performer.

Early on there were a lot of people that said I was crazy for trying to talk to the enthusiast community, but I persisted, the occasional idiot is something that everyone has to put up with from time to time. But the volume of hate messages that I received has unfortunately convinced me that I was wrong.

Well, you probably should have seen that coming a mile away as soon as you found out about Bulldozer's true IPC. A lot of people held out hope for BD based on that comment who would have otherwise built a Sandy Bridge rig a long time ago. That still doesen't completely excuse the guys who sent you hate mail, but it explains it. Your involvement with the enthusiast community is very much appreciated, and I think the better solution would be to avoid making comments that are too forward looking in the future, or if you do make such a forward looking statement that turns out to be false, correct yourself in a timely manner.

 

[Soleron]

People are targeting John because they are frustrated at AMD (and really just the lack of choice in the CPU market now) and John was the only one brave enough to put himself out there.

I don't think they are personal attacks, it is that John is the only person they think will respond or even by affected by what they say. The rest of AMD is like a brick wall.

 

[antisocialmunky]

Illegitimi non carborundum.

At the end of the day you're just a guy who does cool stuff for a company that makes cool products. Anyone who harasses you over your unofficial posts on an internet forum simply isn't worth listening to.

I hope JF AMD doesn't go away. Can't really blame him for fleeing from [H] either.

 

[Lonbjerg]

So JFAMD get people banned...for predicting facts, he then makes 1 posts..and all is dandy?

No way in hell.

PR lying mouthpiece...you ow a personal appology to those that got banned before you even can start to be "justified"!!!


Personal attacks are not acceptable.

Please take some time to familiarize yourself with the following portions of the AnandTech Forum Guidelines:

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We ask for respect and common decency towards your fellow forum members.

Idontcare
Super Mod

 

[Elixer]

John,

Thanks for coming back and owning up. I think we were more concerned that you had been sent here to fool us and our worst fears were going to be confirmed by you never coming back. But you did come back, and our worst fears of what had happened turn out to be unfounded, you weren't here before to intentionally mislead us, you were here giving us the most honest information you had to communicate.

This has "honest mistake" written all over it, if it can even be called a mistake. But it was not an intentional willful effort to deceive, that much is clear.

I recently posted up a lengthy detailed power-consumption thread here, turns out it was 98% wrong in all the ways that mattered. I didn't lie, but I was dead wrong and it was a colossal blunder considering the level of effort and time that was negated by my making a few simple mistakes. Now I've been corrected, life goes on.

Please don't let the flaming anti-AMD fanboys get you down. There are lots and lots of people around here that enjoyed your presence, above and beyond all the bulldozer talk, and for that to be a victim of a few incorrect posts about bulldozer's IPC would be a tragedy that I hope to avoid.

In regards to those members who were at odds with you over the position of IPC, those members had the choice of engaging you with respect and civility or with a bad attitude, disrespect, and flaming.

No one got reprimanded because you were right about IPC and they were treated as being wrong, people got reprimands because of their own failings in handling the disagreement in a respectful manner. The personal attacks and so on were not acceptable regardless whether or not you were right or wrong about the IPC of bulldozer. Do not let anyone try and make you feel guilty there.

In VC&G we had another member who came from industry that talked up some GPU products prior to their launch, only for the products to fall flat in just about every regard. He got a lot of backlash at first too, but then the community got over its collective butthurt and we moved on, and he stuck around, and we are all the better for it.

John, please don't leave the AnandTech Forums. You add value and we all have enjoyable conversations and interactions with you, as a member and as a person. We have all been wrong, it happens, and no one from AnandTech should be harassing you, if they are then we (the moderators) want to know about it because it is not allowed.

Warm Regards,
Phil (aka IDC)

Nice post, and kudos to JF-AMD for coming back with that post. I really thought he wouldn't do such a thing and explain a bit what was going on.

The hostility shouldn't be viewed as such, more like extreme disappointment, like anyone would have been.
You buy a Porsche 911 and you find out the shell is a Porsche , but the engine is a Yugo model instead. :'(

For the morons that would actually PM / e-mail JF-AMD, with abusive language or threats, get a life, there is no need to make it personal. 😡
He posted his mea culpa, and we can't ask for anything more from him on this subject matter.

If you are out for blood, then buy some AMD shares, and go to the next shareholder meeting, and give them your .02.

 

[lol123]

So here's the story on IPC from my perspective.

The original design goal was higher IPC. Back before we had taped out the first processors the discussion came up. I am not allowed to say anything in public that hasn't been vetted past engineering. I specifically asked the engineering team about IPC and they replied that they expected higher IPC and I was cleared on that statement.

In my estimation, I made the IPC stament on XS and I don't recall making it other places (but I am sure that my comments were reposted.)

This is not a case of me lying, this is a case of me being wrong. And that happens to all of us. There is no way that I would intentionally say something that I did not believe to be true because a.) the interenet is a permanent record and b.) eventually you'll have to answer to those comments.

In these different forums that I would frequent, I have made thousands of posts about the product, always trying to help people understand the technology. Everything was done with the intention of being informative. I never made client performance predictions and was very clear on correcting people who took server benchmarks and tried to correlate client performance, because it just doesn't work like that.

Since the launch I haven't really been in any forums because I was in Seattle all week with MSFT. Once the product launched, I started receiving lots of hate mail. If I had a dollar for every message that used the word f*** I would have enough money to buy myself a bulldozer server.

Early on there were a lot of people that said I was crazy for trying to talk to the enthusiast community, but I persisted, the occasional idiot is something that everyone has to put up with from time to time. But the volume of hate messages that I received has unfortunately convinced me that I was wrong.

I was doing this on my own time, it was not part of my job. And because of that, I don't really feel compelled to take any more abuse.

All of the statements that I have made at the time were statements that I believed to be true. I am no more a liar than Paul Otellini when he said IB would ship in Q4. He is not a liar, he is giving the best information he has at the time and things change. If you are going to extend courtesy to others when their statements don't pan out, you should do that with everyone.

Thanks to exarkun and some of the others that have had a reasonable response in all of this. Too many people were waiting to attack, it's almost like they don't really care, maybe they just like to fight.

I think the interesting question going forward is whether we can expect better server performance from the Bulldozer architecture (and specifically the Orochi dies) than in the client space. I fully believed that right up until the launch when Bulldozer was shown to have abysmal performance across the board (even in multi-threaded benchmarks) coupled with extremely high power consumption, something that of course doesn't bode well for its performance as a server CPU. I guess that what could save you there is a dramatic decrease in power consumption as you scale back frequency. But what's your take on all that? Apparently you have expressed a lot more confidence in the design from your position in the server division of AMD, and hopefully you have had good reason for doing that.

Also when it comes to talking to the enthusiast community, I think that you did make a severe mistake by going into the fray the way you did with an attitude and a use of language that was far from professional and arrogantly delivering promises and "corrections" of other posters that have now turned out to be completely false. I think you have contributed to damaging AMD's reputation in a way that wouldn't have happened if you simply had said nothing like the rest of AMD (although the client marketing division really should carry a lot more of the blame than you). I actually expressed that opinion long before the BD launch, something that I received a lot of flak for in these forums then. Now everything points to my being right in that regard. I don't think that AMD will ever recover the following and respect it used to enjoy among enthusiasts, and you might say that doesn't really matter to you, but the enormous amount of badwill that has come out of the Bulldozer launch will inevitably affect (I would say that it already has) other AMD operations.

 

[lifeblood]

JFAMD, this who were disrespectful to you should not have been so, and I appreciate you presence in these forums. Having said that, I must also say I feel you did mislead us. You said that IPC was better or it did not drop on numerous occasions. I accept that you believed it to be true. But at some point you must have found out this was untrue. I cannot accept that someone as senior did not know until the rest of us found out. When you found out you were wrong you were obligated to correct yourself, and state you were wrong. You did not. Until the last you were telling us to disregard the leaked benchmarks saying they would not be representative, yet they were dead on.

I accept you made a mistake, I do not accept your failing to correct yourself.

 

[mrcool63]

it is just stupid that people will insult genuine people who are just trying to get information out.. AMD has let people down.. that is accepted.. but why should one person be crucified for the mistakes of an entire company is beyond my understanding...
JF-AMD at least had the courtesy to answer.. we should thank him.. he was genuinely mislead in my opinion.. so stop haranguing a person for his one statement!!
Just by blaming him will not improve the IPC!! All you succeed in doing is making him not post again!!
Really pathetic!

 

[aigomorla]

So JFAMD get people banned...for predicting facts, he then makes 1 posts..and all is dandy?

No way in hell.

PR lying mouthpiece...you ow a personal appology to those that got banned before you even can start to be "justified"!!!

no they got ban'd because they were thought they were smarter then the senior mods / admins on the board and were treadding on gray when in actuality they were standing on a target right in the middle for a ban.

There are rules in this forum, and one of them specifically says no flaming other members.

u can flame a product all you want.. you can even flame a vendor all you want, but when the attacks get personal, thats where the forum draws the line.

JFAMD has always said he is on this forum for PERSONAL.
Meaning he comes on and talks to us no life people, because he wants to.

 

[Axon]

So JFAMD get people banned...for predicting facts, he then makes 1 posts..and all is dandy?

No way in hell.

PR lying mouthpiece...you ow a personal appology to those that got banned before you even can start to be "justified"!!!

You're exactly why we can't get any information out of any company ever.