Healthcare bill debate passed

[Atreus21]

What can be said other than some people in this nation care about other humans.

Oh please.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Lol @ +$25000 for a family of four...

He may have exaggerated the number, but anyone who pays health insurance right now, WILL pay more to cover those who don't have it. That is fact. This bill does not have any concrete mechanism to lower costs, period.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He may have exaggerated the number, but anyone who pays health insurance right now, WILL pay more to cover those who don't have it. That is fact. This bill does not have any concrete mechanism to lower costs, period.

What's even better they'll talk about the cost of health care being a major reason for this, and when the inevitable happens they'll claim they said no such thing, or blame someone else for their ignorance.

I'm glad I told my kids to stay away from health care as a profession.

 

[da loser]

What's even better they'll talk about the cost of health care being a major reason for this, and when the inevitable happens they'll claim they said no such thing, or blame someone else for their ignorance.

I'm glad I told my kids to stay away from health care as a profession.

?

if health care costs increase, there's more money for health care professionals.

 

[boomerang]

?

if health care costs increase, there's more money for health care professionals.

The salaries of health care professionals will be set by the government. The two biggest fights have been the government option and abortion funding. The government option will eventually take over - it has to.

Costs must be controlled. Salaries will be determined by the government. A free market system cannot function alongside a government plan.

 

[Modelworks]

All the Democrats will do is throw those members districts a new bridge to get the votes.

Again, where in the constitution does it authorize congress the power to create a government run health care system?

It doesn't, but that hasn't stopped them from passing things before that it doesn't give them the right to do. That is why I posted the topic about checks and balances. The way it works right now with things like the health care bill there is nothing we can do but sit and watch as the people we elected can vote however they choose, even if it goes against why we voted for them. Then we get stuck for 20 years with something we do not want with no recourse. I really think things this major should require a national vote to pass.


There was a bill but it didn't pass that would have required every bill passed to cite the part of the constitution that the bill qualifies under.

 

[piasabird]

The senate should change the bill and send it back.

 

[Ausm]

Yes we can!! Wooot!

 

[sportage]

If this takes CIGNA out of the mix in profitting off my getting sick, how is this bad?
If "radically altering" the economy means taking CIGNA out of the mix, how is this bad?
If CIGNA must now accept that kid with Leukemia for coverage, remind me again, how is that bad?

Maybe this reform isnt the best, actually pretty watered down, actually very watered down, still it does signal the beginning of the beginning of real healthcare reform.
This is just a shy step # one in reform.
Stay tuned...
I really believe we will see full governemnt ran non-profit healthcare insurance for all, one day.

PS. Have you gotten your company info for your 2010 employer healthcare in the mail yet??? You better be sitting down when it comes....
Don't worry about the government screwing with your healthcare.... The CIGNA's of America have already done that for you. Look out 2010 !!!

 

[da loser]

The salaries of health care professionals will be set by the government. The two biggest fights have been the government option and abortion funding. The government option will eventually take over - it has to.

Costs must be controlled. Salaries will be determined by the government. A free market system cannot function alongside a government plan.

you think costs will be controlled? government never controls costs. it'll be like the defense industry. health care professionals will be getting a ton of money.

government option has nothing to do with controlling costs. it's only about providing universal coverage.

 

[Robor]

Well a few of the foreigners on the board have weighed in. Those that don't live in the U.S. but love meddling in our politics at whatever level they can. There will be more later when they wake up. The Canadian coalition will be weighing in soon. Most of them don't identify themselves as not being U.S. citizens either.

The 47% of those living here that pay no federal income tax are on board in full force. What the hell, they don't think they're going to be paying for it anyway, so it sure sounds great to them. Hmm, might be a surprise down the road though. (Hint: the rich folks are going to run out of money)

Those that blindly wanted the legislation with little or no concern for how it's been crafted, what it affects and how it's paid for are of course behind it 100%. Those that blindly tow the party line fully support it also. Those that are incapable of independent thought and want whatever their leaders say is good for them are on board too. The government is smarter than myself kind of thinking.

Step one is complete. A 2000 page monstrosity of a bill that covers thousands of things completely unrelated to our nations health care (Loan guarantees for Veterinarians comes to mind) and health care. A bill estimated to raise the out of pocket expense for health care for a family of four to in excess of $25,000 by 2019. Meanwhile the joblessness continues.

Our leader said he would "Fundamentally transform the United States of America". Well, he certainly is doing that.

Make certain it's really what you want. The road back will take people with far more guts and courage than few of us have.

More sensationalistic FUD. Shocking.

 

[Ausm]

you think costs will be controlled? government never controls costs. it'll be like the defense industry. health care professionals will be getting a ton of money.

government option has nothing to do with controlling costs. it's only about providing universal coverage.

If the government negotiates pricing like they do with Medicare it should help drive the cost of the insurance down but I do agree they need to look into fraud abuse and waste in the healtcare industry as a whole also.

 

[Robor]

If this takes CIGNA out of the mix in profitting off my getting sick, how is this bad?
If "radically altering" the economy means taking CIGNA out of the mix, how is this bad?
If CIGNA must now accept that kid with Leukemia for coverage, remind me again, how is that bad?

Maybe this reform isnt the best, actually pretty watered down, actually very watered down, still it does signal the beginning of the beginning of real healthcare reform.
This is just a shy step # one in reform.
Stay tuned...
I really believe we will see full governemnt ran non-profit healthcare insurance for all, one day.

PS. Have you gotten your company info for your 2010 employer healthcare in the mail yet??? You better be sitting down when it comes....
Don't worry about the government screwing with your healthcare.... The CIGNA's of America have already done that for you. Look out 2010 !!!

Already got it. My company eliminated the 'middle' plan so we are left with two options. IIRC, one is 'cheap' but pretty crappy as anything minor would be paid by me and anything major would send me into massive debt anyway. The other is more expensive than my old plan but still has higher deductibles, co-pays, and the same max out-of-pocket. In other words - a little less for far less coverage or a little more for a little less coverage. (if that makes sense)

 

[charrison]

If the government negotiates pricing like they do with Medicare it should help drive the cost of the insurance down but I do agree they need to look into fraud abuse and waste in the healtcare industry as a whole also.

That price fixing only causes price shifting, which is then picked up by those ithose private insurance. You only need to look at docs that will not take madicare patients as a sign of this. Adding more people to a similar system is not going to control costs, it will only ration care.

 

[Jaskalas]

Nice way to not actually read the post which proved how ignorant your example is.

Classic repuglican tactics.

Agreement is not a requirement to reading, though I can appreciate if you have a fear of dissenting voices. OoooooOOOOoo those scary "repuglican tactics".

 

[Modelworks]

If CIGNA must now accept that kid with Leukemia for coverage, remind me again, how is that bad?

It is bad because it cannot work as a business model. It is impossible for insurance companies to take on everyone regardless of their health. That is not insurance . Insurance is supposed to be for unexpected expenses not a slush fund that people use whenever they sneeze.

Remember hurricane katrina and what happened with insurance companies ? This will do that to health insurance companies.

 

[boomerang]

you think costs will be controlled? government never controls costs. it'll be like the defense industry. health care professionals will be getting a ton of money.

government option has nothing to do with controlling costs. it's only about providing universal coverage.

You need to look at how health care is implemented in the UK and Canada for examples. I'll leave you to your own research, but yes, salaries and or caps will be set. By the very nature of a UHC system, this must be done.

Part of my post you replied to was facetious. I'm sorry I didn't make it clear enough. Costs will of course be out of control. With the government involved, it's a given. But public outrage will dictate that the appearance of control be established. This will be done by controlling salaries, costs for procedures, limiting care for the elderly and the very young, etc. You've heard it all before I'm sure. Our own leader has said that instead of a pacemaker maybe a better option would be a pain pill. We must also control Doctors who would remove tonsils or amputate limbs solely to fatten up their wallets.

UHC can absolutely be provided without a public option. The public option is put in to ensure that the government eventually has total control of the health care system. We're being told it's for controlling costs and providing competition. That sounds reasonable. But if the government is going to be picking up the tab for your health care, is it not in the government’s best interests to have you seeing the lowest cost provider? That will be them. The fact that the government has the power to raise taxes and or print money to fund that option is of course cause for concern. But only to some of us. The government could work within the existing system to bring about many of the changes they desire. Instead, the whole system must be overhauled. It’s about power and control.

Is there any reason to think that corruption, graft and waste will not be widespread with the government takeover of health care? Of course not. Why would this be any different?

Finally, make no mistake about it. The rich alone cannot cover these costs. Our tax rates will reach the same levels as countries that have UHC. This is not going to be a free ride. Somebody has to pay for this. Will our wages rise in this global economy of ours to help offset those costs? History tells us no.

 

[Jaskalas]

What can be said other than some people in this nation care about other humans.

Gee, who might those people be?

1. Those who want to empower the elite ruling class and enslave the people as government property?
2. Those who want to empower the people and enslave the government as public property?

Once the lines are drawn you can quickly realize who this bill favors. Particularly when how you live your life and treat your body will directly impact the federal budget once they have asserted themselves as your health provider. How long do you think it’ll be until cost savings requires them to enter your home and tell you what you can or cannot do?

 

[cubby1223]

If the government negotiates pricing like they do with Medicare it should help drive the cost of the insurance down but I do agree they need to look into fraud abuse and waste in the healtcare industry as a whole also.

The government is able to do that because the costs are then passed on to those outside of Medicare. It's not "negotiating pricing" but more like "shifting costs". Take a wild guess what will happen when there is no one left to shift the costs over to?

No wonder you guys love the government so much, you can only ever care about half of the story.

 

[Carmen813]

The public option in this bill does not use price fixing. It is required to negotiate rates on a regional basis with providers, just like a private plan does. This highly controversial public option is expected to attract about 2% of Americans, leading to about six million total people. It's also expected to have higher premiums than private plans because most likely it will attract sicker people.

Do you guys even read CBO analysis anymore, or do you just go straight from your favorite biased blog and start spewing talking points?

Christ, it's not like this information is hard to find.

 

[Carmen813]

The salaries of health care professionals will be set by the government. The two biggest fights have been the government option and abortion funding. The government option will eventually take over - it has to.

Costs must be controlled. Salaries will be determined by the government. A free market system cannot function alongside a government plan.

That's why all college universities are run by government, right? Logic fail.

 

[Ausm]

That price fixing only causes price shifting, which is then picked up by those ithose private insurance. You only need to look at docs that will not take madicare patients as a sign of this. Adding more people to a similar system is not going to control costs, it will only ration care.

Healthcare is already rationed now.

 

[Modelworks]

Do you guys even read CBO analysis anymore, or do you just go straight from your favorite biased blog and start spewing talking points?

Christ, it's not like this information is hard to find.

Congress doesn't read it and I can't sort through 2000 pages of it so why should anyone else ?

 

[charrison]

Healthcare is already rationed now.

And this is not going to make things better or cheaper.

 

[Jhhnn]

I remember not too long ago when repubs controlled both the legislature and the executive, but did nothing wrt health care except throw a really big bone to one of their voting blocs, seniors. Cost didn't matter then, huh-uhh...

Didn't matter when they set out to invade Iraq or when they authorized the purchase of a lot of fancy coldwar military hardware, or when they cut taxes at the top, repeatedly... didn't matter when they ladled out pork to their own members' districts, either.

Dick Cheney reportedly said it himself- "Deficits don't matter."

Now that they've basically allowed banking and healthcare to nearly destroy themselves, deficits are a really big deal, yeh, a really big deal.

Huh. How'd that happen? Why the big turnaround?

Because they've become obstructionists. They oppose any initiatives from the Obama Admin or Dems in general, because they can, because that's who they are, what they've become. Right, wrong, or indifferent, they see it as an exercise in gamesmanship, in winning, in returning to their former glory as members of the lootocracy...

The rest? the fearmongering, raving, button-pushing? Pure obfuscation.