HDHomerun DVR?

[BonzaiDuck]

And this is why I went OTA. So tired of the BS. Stupid CCI flags that prevented watching live content that I paid to watch...

Generally, the expansion of microcomputer technology into other areas of media and electronics has just . . . gotten . . . ahead of me.

The plot of the story follows a SOUTH PARK episode, which in turn parodies the movie of Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath." Everybody suddenly loses their internet. Randy Marsh can't get his rocks off anymore by going to XXX sites. Chaos reigns, until everybody decides to pick up and "move to Californ-ie." There's the rumor "they have IN-ter-net in Californ-ie!" So the rest of the episode but for the very end is in B/W -- like the old movie with Henry Fonda. Randy struggles along with someone passing off some kindergarten crayon drawings as "Japanese perversion" and "German Sheisse" X-rated videos. I'll spare the details of at least one part of that.

Finally, in the end, Kyle Brothlofsky and some other SP dwellers turn up at the center of everything in the national security apparatus which provides the internet of everything. And Kyle says: "I think I know how to fix it." He goes to the wall, unplugs the giant power cable for the internet of everything, waits -- plugs it back in. Suddenly, everybody has his internet back, and Randy makes a public speech to moralize about abusing the internet: " . . . and we should never use the internet to [squeeze the lizard] more than once a day . . . "

So last night, the HDTV on as usual, fed by the main workstation in this room. I wake up at 5AM to find the TV off, the AVR in "Standby" mode, the computer blinking a sign that it is asleep. (but it's never supposed to sleep.) It's a dual boot system with Win 10, updates for this month eventually forced a reboot -- or -- hell -- I just rolled over on the remote and caused the wrong button to be pressed. The default on reboot is Win 10: You have to be "there" to choose Win 7.

And I discover that the system is no longer feeding the AVR->HDTV, either in Standby-Passthrough or turned on for the audio. That is to be perfectly clear -- it's not working in Windows 7.

Unplugging cables; playing with "playback devices;" "fiddling with NVidia Control Panel; swapping connections to between AVR and TV; turning the STB on and off and reconnecting it; changing cables between the TV and AVR, AVR and STB, AVR and computer. Rebooting rebooting rebooting. Web-searches and hair-pulling panic-pondering.

Finally, I got to the point I've learned to hate all along: plodding through the ONKYO TX NR616 AVR owner's manual.

Then, it dawned on me. No thanks to that manual.

Instead of keeping it in perpetual Standby Mode, I unplugged the AVR and let it reinitialize.

And I was once again able to flip through my collection of Ash Leigh 1990s rut-sweat-cheesecake, while listening to the audio from CNN. I never do that more than once a week.

But that was some 5 hours of urgent troubleshooting. With endurance, I always win. I thought this time -- Microsoft or the Nazis had robbed me of my PC-to-AVR/TV feed. And I wasn't sure I'd win.

 

[Kartajan]

^ this is why I do not use a HTPC for the "primary display". My wife would kill me. She likes our Shield though....

 

[lupi]

Use 360s with the old style media remote, never had a problem other than during the guide data stuff.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

^ this is why I do not use a HTPC for the "primary display". My wife would kill me. She likes our Shield though....

Not sure I understand.

My dual monitor setup includes an HD BenQ gaming monitor on my desk, and the AVR->HDTV. Of course, there's nobody else to be upset at my configuration: it suits my needs. The BenQ is a "primary display" for the HTPC_enabled system, shared through a KVM with other systems. The HT components are connected to an HDMI port with a 25' good quality cable with gold-plated contacts.

But the problem was with the AVR and the spurious unattended reboot I had. I think -- once every couple months -- I'd do well to unplug the AVR and let it reset after plugging it back in.

I also have two 5.1 sound systems which are "WMC-ready" for this rig, counting the speakers connected to the AVR and an aging Logitech 5.1 system which nevertheless has decent sound as well. There was a WMC plug-in I was lucky to obtain called "Audio Renderer Updater" which installs under WMC "Extras." It's software of a French origin, allowing to switch between audio outputs on the fly. I don't know for sure that it's available anymore. Seems I found it through the "Green Button" website.

Now -- I'm sure I could spring for an XBOX, as another poster recommended. But like I said, I'm overwhelmed with projects associated with these systems, and it's "gonna be a while . . . " And also like I said -- with my age as an excuse -- "Ah jus' can't chew the leather anymore . . . "

I mean -- what's next? Toilet paper with embedded chips accessible by cell-phone which tell you they've absorbed enough s*** to their intended limit? I don't . . freakin' . . . know . . .

 

[Kartajan]

just saying that AVR + HTPC= good chance of something getting confused. Especially with anything dealing in CEC.
Typical assumption is AVR= Primary point of consumption- spousal approval preferred, and no AVR= Secondary location or just "not in the budget"....

 

[BonzaiDuck]

just saying that AVR + HTPC= good chance of something getting confused. Especially with anything dealing in CEC.
Typical assumption is AVR= Primary point of consumption- spousal approval preferred, and no AVR= Secondary location or just "not in the budget"....

On the encouraging side, I've seen posts over the last few years in this forum from people facing troubles with their AVR's in an HTPC context. Those types of problems I'd never had. I've had the ONKYO connected to the HTPC-duty system for just under five years. This is the first time I ever had to unplug and power-cycle it to resolve a problem, and there was never a problem before.

But this anomaly occurred from an unintended reboot into Windows 10, for which the ONKYO wasn't configured as a "second monitor." The only reason this particular system is set up like that now: I thought it wise to grab Win 10 before the freebie ran out, anticipating a time when I could replace WMC and cut Windows 7 loose.

I can also make the HDMI connection directly to the HDTV, which I've done for another system and a similar lengthy HDMI cable. But then, I can't avail myself of the 5.1 JBL speakers. Even so, I could still cut the ONKYO out of the loop entirely, because -- as I said -- I can flip between the Logitech 5.1 speakers of the HTPC_enabled system and the ONKYO, still passing the video through the ONKYO to the TV. I could simply do that with a direct connection to the HDTV. But since I do that with the ONKYO in "passthrough" standby mode, I don't see any reason to take the ONKYO AVR out of the loop.

Of course, I'm the only one who benefits or suffers with this, while I still understand situations involving "spousal approval." With the right attitude, that could make the project "more interesting."

 

[Kartajan]

But then, I can't avail myself of the 5.1 JBL speakers.

I never could get myself to do 5.1 for anything that wasn't a full on movie, so I limited that experience to my main viewing area, but as long as it makes you happy, "it's kewl"...

At least on the rare occasion that it goes wonky you don't get a "THE TV IS BROKEN" complaint.... I get that any time the Harmony IR doesn't get pointed right...

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I never could get myself to do 5.1 for anything that wasn't a full on movie, so I limited that experience to my main viewing area, but as long as it makes you happy, "it's kewl"...

At least on the rare occasion that it goes wonky you don't get a "THE TV IS BROKEN" complaint.... I get that any time the Harmony IR doesn't get pointed right...

I had an old ONKYO "stereo" receiver (~1992) with a pair of BIC bass-reflex speakers (1983) until 2011, when I bought the LG HDTV and the 7.1 ONKYO AVR with the 5.1 JBL speakers. You could say I was "depriving myself" all that time.

But I also spoiled myself with "surround" when I replaced a 2.1 computer-speaker set with a Logitech 5.1 system in ~ 2002. I can't remember the model number, and I can't find it. I think I paid < $100 for it! I'd have to look under the desk and contort myself like a carnival stunt-man to read the back of the woofer. But it still works fine. In a room like this -- < 20'x16' with carpeting and overstuffed with furniture -- it sounds fine to me. I might have got by just fine without the ONKYO TX NR616. But like you say -- for certain movies, you'd like to have Carnegie Hall. Still -- the benefits didn't really justify the outlay. We just get used to having "certain stuff." We used to call the "stuff" a "stereo system." Now it's a "Home Theater."

 

[Kartajan]

of course it all breaks down to "what do I need"...

I mean I really want this:

But I can only afford this:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38263063&postcount=12

 

[BonzaiDuck]

of course it all breaks down to "what do I need"...

I mean I really want this:

But I can only afford this:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=38263063&postcount=12

Yeah. Except I need more flexibility than a movie theater seating. I must recline. I must be able to move around, sit at my desk and desktop, and "do other stuff." I'd at least want my laptop in front of me with a tray of Guacamole and chips, though.

I'll think about posting some pictures of my own. But full landscape depiction of this room would shame me. For a movie, check out "The World's Fastest Indian" with Anthony Hopkins as Bert Munro, in his little cinder-block hut in New Zealand.

That depiction is "order." Mine is relatively "chaos." The record-breaking motorcyclist's mess was mechanical. Mine is electronic, horticultural, library-cultural, and tools-on-the-floor. Soon, I'll post my thread about a "Stacker 830 Resurrection" in "Cases." But for now -- I'm shy about my "theater."

Nice rec-room setup by the way. . .

 

[Kartajan]

the beautiful HT is not mine
The Living room shot with lots of extraneous decorations was mine...

 

[BonzaiDuck]

the beautiful HT is not mine
The Living room shot with lots of extraneous decorations was mine...

That was the one I was referring to. So it's a "living room" and not a "rec-room." But what is "living" unless there is "rec?"

You know, I shop COSTCO maybe once or twice a month. You can't miss the big UHD TV displays -- in the local store here, it's right at the entrance with the LensCrafters and a few "Sale" displays for clothing. I think I could get a 50" or greater for what I'd paid for this LED_LCD HDTV. But the 42" LG is big enough. Anything bigger would become a logistical problem of interior decoration.

In 2010, I was getting WMC fed to a 25" Hanns-G HD monitor I'd bought for that purpose -- just to experiment. I was still watching the cable STB feed from a ~1995 25" GE tube SD TV.

There are features to these newer devices I've yet to explore in depth. One of my earliest discoveries was internet radio through the ONKYO, so I could tune in to "Shock Radio" in Moscow. And of course, the devices all provide internet connection, so you can feed Netflix, Hulu etc. Just too . . .much stuff. . . . I might have kept my Netflix subscription when they dropped maintenance for their WMC "Extra," since I might have had it through the TV or AVR. I'm slowin' down, and the world is speedin' up.

 

[Kartajan]

I actually upgraded resolution/ downgraded PQ from a 50" TH-50PX80U to a 70" E701i-A3 because we bought a house with a much bigger living room. And I dropped Netflix since their content (as far as stuff I don't own) is very weak. I sometimes have a Hulu account active...

the 50" now is my smoking area/ garage screen...

 

[Elixer]

Their DVR project seems to have hit a roadblock, and that roadblock is DRM.
https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=119&t=36939#p223989

The internal builds of HDHomeRun VIEW for Android play DRM protected live TV and we believe meets all protection requirements (under review). Starting with the release version of Android N we should be able to support DRM protected content in the Live Channels app as well.

The internal builds of HDHomeRun VIEW for Windows 10 play DRM protected live TV but do not meet protection requirements. Notably, Windows 10 does not provide a way for an app to request HDCP protection to the monitor. We have a possible workaround but the focus is on getting Android released first.

The Mac client is under development. We will know in a few weeks if DRM protection is achievable on Mac.

Nick

That is a pretty stunning turn-around, PC people get the shaft, and now, they are full speed ahead for Android, something that was NEVER mentioned in the kickstarter.

As was pointed out in that thread, there is a playready option, but, that seems to cost lots of $$$ which is why they won't go that route.

Talk about disappointing.

 

[Kartajan]

Although I want everything to be released yesterday, and the PC crowd deserves support, they did NOT say "PC guys take it in the shorts"... They just told everybody that "PC won't be first"... Hopefully the possible workaround mentioned will work and PC will get their release soon...

(They did bite off a much bigger mouthful than they anticipated...)

 

[lupi]

Actually it's worse than that, given the time they've been working on it all they are now saying is that android ability to view live protected content should be coming soon with no eta on any further developments. That would be a pretty crappy progress of the overall mission.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Could be my imagination, but it just looks as though the DRM channels I can get are increasing in number -- slowly. It's still a long stretch to using WMC to get more than 90% of the guide listing. Put it another way: I'm only a little bit better off than a "basic cable" subscription.

I've even deferred testing the recording feature, because I'm sure it works. I need to make some tweaks -- discussed earlier.

Also, I find that KODI seems to be working OK. That's a second step for testing the recording feature.

I should do some poking around on my own, because the info is probably "out there." But how does KODI and VIEW integrate with the traditional Microsoft USB green-button remote hardware? There is another universal remote that Kartajan or someone mentioned -- I can't remember at the moment.

While the DRM/encrypted/premium content is still an issue, I might as well proceed to find out what I'll end up with in a Windows 10 universe.

 

[Kartajan]

Actually it's worse than that, given the time they've been working on it all they are now saying is that android ability to view live protected content should be coming soon with no eta on any further developments. That would be a pretty crappy progress of the overall mission.

Communication has always been poor at best from SD. Their hardware is their strength, they have never really done SW before. I supported the project with a hope of success in DRM land, keeping in mind that those who "hold the keys" do NOT want SD (or anyone other than themselves) to succeed.



(I bet it would all work tomorrow with the right amount of dollars spent, but the that amount is likely enough to kill any hope of an acceptable price point)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Communication has always been poor at best from SD. Their hardware is their strength, they have never really done SW before. I supported the project with a hope of success in DRM land, keeping in mind that those who "hold the keys" do NOT want SD (or anyone other than themselves) to succeed.



(I bet it would all work tomorrow with the right amount of dollars spent, but the that amount is likely enough to kill any hope of an acceptable price point)

That's the key: "Their hardware is their strength." Their market for existing product designs will be limited the more difficult it is for a home-user or anyone else to get encrypted content displayed through a PC acting as DVR recorder. So their life-blood is at stake.

That's just a reason for hope of success. The size of the market for their hardware might seem limited to begin with, so that's a different kind of expectation.

If I gave up six Mexican carry-out dinners, is there any way to estimate the total investment in the project received from end-users?

 

[Elixer]

Silicondust USA, Inc &#8207;@HDHomeRun_US Jun 21

#DRM keys have been ordered. Awaiting arrival, then QA testing. Getting Closer... #HDHomeRunVIEW #HDHomeRunDVR #protectedcontentstreaming

https://twitter.com/HDHomeRun_US?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Hmm... they don't specify platform.

 

[Kartajan]

https://twitter.com/HDHomeRun_US?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

Hmm... they don't specify platform.

Without any raw data, my speculation is that the DRM keys referred to are for the "DVR Engine", not the specific client platform.
My guess is the DRM release order will be Android-> ("workaround delay")-> Windows/ ->(Long "Apple doesn't want to play delay") -->Mac

 

[Elixer]

So, instead of fixing the DRM to get the DVR finally working as a replacement for WMC, they have been doing this?

Big news!

We have been working with Microsoft and the XBox team to get the HDHomeRun app to XBox One. The HDHomeRun app was published a short while ago and will be available through the app store on the XBox in the next 24 hours.

Both the XBox One Media Remote and the game controller are supported.
Windows 10 Phone

Earlier this month we released support for Windows 10 Phone through the app store. You can now use your Windows 10 Phone to watch live TV. With a DVR subscription you can discover new shows, schedule recordings, and watch everything recorded.

To install or upgrade click here, or search for HDHomeRun in the app store. The latest release is 1.1.116.0.
Windows 10 Desktop

Keyboard media keys and the on-screen-display media controls are now supported, along with a number of important playback improvements.

To install or upgrade click here, or search for HDHomeRun in the app store. The latest release is 1.1.116.0 and is now simply named HDHomeRun (previously HDHomeRun VIEW).
Apple Mac

In July we released the new HDHomeRun app for Mac with DVR support. This is a major milestone for Mac - you can now use your Mac as a DVR with a HDHomeRun DVR subscription.

The latest August release has a number of bug fixes and performance improvements - you can download the latest release here.
Android & Android TV

The HDHomeRun app for Android is now available through the Google app-testing program here. The latest releases add Live Channels support for watching Live TV through the Google Live Channels app.

2016 model Sony TVs with Android TV are now supported. We expect the 2015 model Sony TVs with Android TV to be supported in the near future with a firmware update for the TV.
Samsung RUI

In June we released support for accessing the HDHomeRun DVR direct on a Samsung 2016 smart TV using the UPnP RUI protocol. A few weeks ago Samsung pushed a firmware update to the TVs that disabled the RUI feature.

We are in contact with the right people at Samsung and are working to encourage a positive solution.
Staying up to date
As always, the latest information can be found on our support forums here. Feedback helps - please start a new thread and let us know what is working and what isn't.

If you like the Windows 10 app please consider writing a quick review on the Windows app store. Every positive review helps.

Things are coming together.

 

[Kartajan]

from the email they sent out.. between "Samsung RUI" and "Staying up to date" (missing from your post...)

Remaining Critical Features

The two critical features that remain under development are Pause/FF/RW of live TV and support for protected channels.
Goal is to have Pause/FF/RW of live TV released end of this month (2 weeks).
Support for protected content is an ongoing time-consuming headache which we are making progress on.

I wish they would get a subscription for aspirin, to kill the headaches w/ DRM...

 

[Elixer]

from the email they sent out.. between "Samsung RUI" and "Staying up to date" (missing from your post...)


I wish they would get a subscription for aspirin, to kill the headaches w/ DRM...

That is weird, I copied it as I got it, and I don't see that section in my e-mail, did they send out different copies?

XBox One

Big news!

We have been working with Microsoft and the XBox team to get the
HDHomeRun app to XBox One. The HDHomeRun app was published a short while
ago and will be available through the app store on the XBox in the next
24 hours.

Both the XBox One Media Remote and the game controller are supported.


Windows 10 Phone

Earlier this month we released support for Windows 10 Phone through the
app store. You can now use your Windows 10 Phone to watch live TV. With
a DVR subscription you can discover new shows, schedule recordings, and
watch everything recorded.

To install or upgrade click here
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/hdhomerun/9nblggh58vwk>, or
search for HDHomeRun in the app store. The latest release is 1.1.116.0.


Windows 10 Desktop

Keyboard media keys and the on-screen-display media controls are now
supported, along with a number of important playback improvements.

To install or upgrade click here
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/hdhomerun/9nblggh58vwk>, or
search for HDHomeRun in the app store. The latest release is 1.1.116.0
and is now simply named HDHomeRun (previously HDHomeRun VIEW).


Apple Mac

In July we released the new HDHomeRun app for Mac with DVR support. This
is a major milestone for Mac - you can now use your Mac as a DVR with a
HDHomeRun DVR subscription.

The latest August release has a number of bug fixes and performance
improvements - you can download the latest release here
<https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=119&t=20613>.


Android & Android TV

The HDHomeRun app for Android is now available through the Google
app-testing program here
<https://play.google.com/apps/testing/com.silicondust.view>. The latest
releases add Live Channels support for watching Live TV through the
Google Live Channels app.

2016 model Sony TVs with Android TV are now supported. We expect the
2015 model Sony TVs with Android TV to be supported in the near future
with a firmware update for the TV.


Samsung RUI

In June we released support for accessing the HDHomeRun DVR direct on a
Samsung 2016 smart TV using the UPnP RUI protocol. A few weeks ago
Samsung pushed a firmware update to the TVs that disabled the RUI feature.

We are in contact with the right people at Samsung and are working to
encourage a positive solution.


Staying up to date

As always, the latest information can be found on our support forums
here <https://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=119>. Feedback
helps - please start a new thread and let us know what is working and
what isn't.

If you like the Windows 10 app please consider writing a quick review on
the Windows app store. Every positive review helps.

Things are coming together.

 

[Kartajan]

I don't think so... I get mine from the KS... Maybe something with the formatting?