Havoc in Kiev: Snipers fire on protesters/opposition (NSFW)

[maddogchen]

Is it not with high confidence that we can state Ukraine stands alone?

Not seeing calls for WW3 over them.

I was thinking more along the lines of both Russia and china being more aggressive in taking land from their neighbors.

 

[WelshBloke]

That s all lies , 20 policemen were killed , i suppose that
they were snipped...

All in all a disgusting fascist coup, be sure that they
made their best to have people killed so they could use
it as argument for their Mussolini like power overtake,
they have lost the previous polls and simply wanted the
legal power to be overthrown , that s how fascists think,
they have no respect for the people will.

Dont talk rubbish.

What your suggesting is that there are enough organised fascists in the Ukraine to take over the entire country with the army and police force arranged against them.

Its quite possible that the best solution would be splitting the country as its pretty obvious that Russian troups are already active there.

 

[Jaskalas]

I was thinking more along the lines of both Russia and china being more aggressive in taking land from their neighbors.

I think they realize the United States is in decline and who is going to invoke MAD over small regional skirmishes?

If anything MAD helps keep us out of other superpower's regional conflicts. In effect there's a cover to allow for small wars because no one is stupid enough to blow up the world over a few Chinese or Russian neighboring states.

 

[gevorg]

Another side of divide is the neo-Nazi Svoboda party, that's been growing from pro-EU side of Ukraine:

2006:

2012:

 

[theeedude]

Russia is going to steamroll over Ukraine. They got their special forces grabbing airfields already. And they are moving troops to grab naval bases.

Fun times! World war 3 just around the corner

Russia will not invade Ukraine. It's not worth the hassle, plus the possibility of success is low beyond perhaps annexing the Kharkiv and Donetsk regions, which is not worth the effort, and would weaken Russian influence in the remainder of Ukraine, and it risks turning even eastern Ukraine against Russia.
Crimea is a much cleaner cut, geographically and politically. They will support the local Crimean separatist paramilitaries. That's why the guys occupying parliament have the nice uniforms and toys, Russians pretty much are giving them all they need. Lots of former military people in the Crimea. The new Ukrainian regime is working overtime to create conditions for separatism. First passing the law on languages, which predictably split Ukraine into along linguistic lines, which was dumb. Ethnic Russians are a much smaller group in Ukraine than Russian speakers, and this law pushed Russian speaking Ukrainians on the other side of the split. Secondly, disbanding Berkut, left a lot of pissed off professional troops, many from Crimea with nothing to do except join paramilitary units.
Russia doesn't need to invade Crimea, the pro Russian locals already occupy it. If the Kiev regime decides to suppress them militarily, Russia "protect civilians" "stop ethnic cleansing" "support their right to self determination" and all the other fun things they learned from NATO in Kosovo.
The new Kiev regime made a decision to settle scores right away instead of trying to maintain unity, and now it's blowing up in their face. And this is just first week. They better get on that learning curve if they want to stick around. It's no time for amateur hour.

 

[Abwx]

Dont talk rubbish.

What your suggesting is that there are enough organised fascists in the Ukraine to take over the entire country with the army and police force arranged against them.

Its quite possible that the best solution would be splitting the country as its pretty obvious that Russian troups are already active there.

The rubbish is the unability to aknowledge that had the president
acted as would have done a US presisident or a UK prime minister
in such events that the few thousands armed fascists would have
been killed , he was trapped by thoses extremists willingness to make
sure that blood was to be shed as a necessary tool to deny him
any legitimacy; the same way the nazi acted in Germany , anyway
polls where soon to happen in 2015 but he just happen that according
to early invesqtigations he was favourite for the presidential elections,
hence the fascist coup to overthrow whoever is not extremist and
anti russian.

Here your "freedom fighters" (with a US fascist), actualy paid to destabilize this state:

 

[norseamd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia#Mergers

have yet to read through all of the last posts but might do so eventually

anyways this shows that putin and the russians have been merging the autonomous okrugs with national okrugs. this shows that the russians are assimilating and consolitading the various minorites or are trying to do so. more or less since putin took power the russians have begun to assert more imperialism. this is clear as to what is going on

 

[Mai72]

I just saw Obama's emergency statement. He stated...'We are deeply concerned." What are you going to do Obama? Nothing! You didn't do anything in Syria, and you aren't going to do anything about Russia.

 

[Genx87]

What I find interesting is Ukraine's lack of response to supposed Russian troops within their territory. Think they would be mobilizing to repulse this invasion at the airports.

 

[Fern]

The rubbish is the unability to aknowledge that had the president
acted as would have done a US presisident or a UK prime minister
in such events that the few thousands armed fascists would have
been killed
-snip-

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your comments, but if you think the US President, or even the UK Prime Minister, would have had several thousand people shot and killed I strongly disagree.

That's crazy talk.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

The rubbish is the unability to aknowledge that had the president
acted as would have done a US presisident or a UK prime minister
in such events that the few thousands armed fascists would have
been killed , he was trapped by thoses extremists willingness to make
sure that blood was to be shed as a necessary tool to deny him
any legitimacy; the same way the nazi acted in Germany , anyway
polls where soon to happen in 2015 but he just happen that according
to early invesqtigations he was favourite for the presidential elections,
hence the fascist coup to overthrow whoever is not extremist and
anti russian.

Here your "freedom fighters" (with a US fascist), actualy paid to destabilize this state:

Yep, "peaceful" "unarmed" "protesters."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0kTv_8lwiQ
They would have gotten shot in the US, much sooner.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Ukraine's parliament/congress, rejected joining the European Union. By doing so, Ukraine will most likely (continue to establish) close relations with Russia, & could eventually form its own "Eastern European Union". <-- you speak as if the Ukraine is actually autonomous.....not hardly!

Also alot (if not, the most infuential) of EU member nations are in the NATO alliance, so Russia most certainly doesn't want a border nation to eventually join such an organization, considering the fact that United States wanted to plant a "missile shield" in Poland, which would enhance America/NATO's capability in a first strike/pre-emptive nuclear strike against Russia. Alaska, rich in oil, really, only represents the main vulnerability of a ground invasion from Russian ground forces.<-- the Ukraine is not a border nation -- it is still a Russian puppet nation.

Also China, though relying on Russia, for its most advanced Arsenal such as "Flanker" jet fighter, is a potential hostile enemy for Russia (see: Treaty of Aigun).<-- China wants no part of a war with Russia. VChina`s SOP is to say and do nothing!

Therefore, Russia could face a 2-front war alongs its borders, of course not now, but more like, 50-100 years from now. <-- will not happen. Russian troops already control the Ukraine -- Russian Commandos, wearing unmarked NEW uniforms already have control of the important parts of the Ukraine!

Alot of ethnic Russians live in eastern-Ukraine.

A legitimate reason for the Ukrainians to hate the Russians, despite 2 Soviet leaders (Kruschev & Brezhnev) being born in Ukraine, is that around 2-8 million Ukrainians were killed in an engineered famine during Stalin's reign (holodomor), which Russia has yet to recognize (as a genocide) or apologize for, to the best of my knowledge. -- so???

The 2005 orange revolution saw a pro-NATO/EU president (Yushchenko) get elected for Ukraine, but he was eventually voted out and replaced with pro-Russia factions. <-- which will continue to happen. Russia will never make that mistake again..allowing something like that to happen!

Peace!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

I just saw Obama's emergency statement. He stated...'We are deeply concerned." What are you going to do Obama? Nothing! You didn't do anything in Syria, and you aren't going to do anything about Russia.

That's a stoopid question!
What can he do -- nothing! You think Russia would allow a war in its own backyard? Especially one that it can win easily?
Nobody will send troops to the Ukraine -- it will be a blood bath and not Russian blood!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Dont talk rubbish.

What your suggesting is that there are enough organised fascists in the Ukraine to take over the entire country with the army and police force arranged against them.

Its quite possible that the best solution would be splitting the country as its pretty obvious that Russian troups are already active there.

True!! But the truth of the matter is the Ukraine will never be split!! Russia has always considered the Ukraine a puppet state and I would wager that if things don`t sort themselves out quickly or if the commandos that are already in the Ukraine cannot get the job done that there will be a huge military presence and Russia will find a reason to involve its troops!

 

[norseamd]

The deal that Yanukovich got from Russia was far more beneficial to Ukraine than the one from the West. Cheap gas and an a loan without conditions that IMF wanted to impose, which would bankrupt most of Ukraine's industry. The opposition is running the country for the benefit of EU against the interests of most Ukrainians.

a oil and loan deall was likely not the reason for these protests. not joining the eu likely was the flareup over this. although not joining the eu was likely part of the deal.

 

[theeedude]

True!! But the truth of the matter is the Ukraine will never be split!! Russia has always considered the Ukraine a puppet state and I would wager that if things don`t sort themselves out quickly or if the commandos that are already in the Ukraine cannot get the job done that there will be a huge military presence and Russia will find a reason to involve its troops!

Russia is not going to occupy an entire country of 46Million. It had a big enough headache with Chechnya that only has a Million or so people. If there is a civil war, Russia will pick a side and support it, but it's not going to go in itself.

 

[norseamd]

Yes, Russia has its own problems, with Putin being one. I am just saying what I think Putin will do in Ukraine, and reasoning behind it. He knows people will turn against the new government if there is no stability and economic recovery, and he has the power to both destabilize Ukraine and hinder its economy.

honestly the massive fundamentalism and religious upsurge might be pissing off a whole lot more people than were upset with putin maintaining control of the whole country. he noticed the protests and less votes and he decided to fundamentalise himself and appeal to the religious folk. think he would of better off figuring out more how to secure his country and fix votes than what he decided to do. putin is human and has his own emotions. even if he more or less can be a political machine. he may think he might not be able to hold onto his power for much longer and decided that having fun with ignorance and the masses might be worth it over any extra time he might be able to gain at the presedency by playing it safe.

 

[norseamd]

Does Putin have enough influence over the other former USSR countries to have them stop trading or jack up tariffs with the Ukraine?

some of them. not armenia but azekastan possibly. some of the central asian countries also. probably kazackstan and uzbekistan

 

[michal1980]

Obama once again out matched. And this time no putin to save him.


How well is that 'reset' of Obama's working with Russia?

 

[boomerang]

So Palin was right. Russia just invaded Ukraine. She said that would happen with Obama as President and got mocked for it.

 

[Fern]

So Palin was right. Russia just invaded Ukraine. She said that would happen with Obama as President and got mocked for it.

That's pretty funny.

CNN) - Sarah Palin may be having a bragging rights moment.

In 2008, when she was the GOP vice presidential nominee, Palin questioned in a speech whether then-Sen. Barack Obama would have the foreign policy credentials to handle a scenario in which Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine.

"After the Russian army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama's reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence – the kind of response that would only encourage Russia's Putin to invade Ukraine next," she said in Reno, Nevada on October 21, 2008.

The former Alaska governor was happy to highlight her prediction on Friday and scold those who criticized her 2008 comments.

"Yes, I could see this one from Alaska," she said on Facebook. That remark was a reference to a 2008 interview in which Palin argued that Alaska's proximity to Russia helped boost her foreign policy experience.

Somewhere in here is joke along the lines of 'it's takes an Obama to make Palin look smart'.

Fern

 

[norseamd]

http://www.eurasiareview.com/28022014-ukraine-crimea-simmering-cauldron-analysis/

 

[Gintaras]

Before Maidan.....

Well, sequence of events...

Yanukovich in Vilnius - November, 28-29, 2013, EU meets Yanukovich pretty good, with hope, he will "sell ukrainian people to a slavery of EU", no sign - in the eyes of EU officials, that Yanukovich suppresses his own people - they did expect from him what they wanted - to sign "association" document:

http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lith...ainos-del-asociacijos-sutarties.d?id=63406258

[/QUOTE]

 

[Abwx]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your comments, but if you think the US President, or even the UK Prime Minister, would have had several thousand people shot and killed I strongly disagree.

That's crazy talk.

Fern

Crazy talks.?..

Would the US government be standing still if people would protest
using all kind of weapons while blocking the parliament , invading
and occupying state administrations buildings.??..

Any of thoses western governments who have officialy supported
thoses terrorists would have cleaned the places abruptly if such
protests did occur in their own countries.

Truth as stated on the post above is that Yanukovich refused
to sell off his country a few weeks ago by signing a very disadvantageous
treaty with the EU allowing all Europe to enter their market in exchange
of about nothing or at most only a few non biding promises.

 

[boomerang]

Somewhere in here is joke along the lines of 'it's takes an Obama to make Palin look smart'.

I think you nailed it! It's sig worthy too.