Have you read the Qu?ran ?

[syzygy]

I read Dawood?s translation a few years ago. Now I?m picking through Rodwell?s. I?m only up to Surah 7 but it brings back some memories. The Qu?ran says a number of times a believer cannot be friends with an unbeliever for fear of being corrupted and turned from the message.

My question is how does a believer apply such a basic request to everyday life ? All religions make extraordinary demands that are ignored by the faithful. But ignoring this, which is so powerfully proscribed in the Qu?ran, requires, I think, a lot of dishonesty and pretending.

I just don't understand how.

 

[StevenYoo]

i got a free qu'ran from a hot deal here a couple years ago. It's freakin HUGE and weighs a ton.

Unfortunately, I havent had the motivation to open it up and read it.

 

[ViviTheMage]

nope

 

[FoBoT]

poll?
no

 

[Anubis]

nope
havent read the bible either

 

[TheSlamma]

They can interact with nonbelievers just not be friends with them.

That's not that hard, I interact with Christians all the time and I would never be friends with them

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I am a Muslim and I hear this from preachers every once in a while. "Befriend all kinds of people but stay true to your own beliefs." I am by no means an expert on the Quran; most of my learning is from what my parents taught me and when I feel the need to look up something in particular. So I hit the Index and start looking for the specific chapters/verses. This is my take on the thing:

I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path.

The Quran says that you need to build a strong moral fiber (Iman) where YOU have the power to influence others (positively) and not be influenced (negatively). From everything I remember learning as a child in Islamic Studies, it encourages you to befriend people who are different from you and setting a positive example.

Build strong, resilient character and lead others to the right path, don't follow their (wrong) path is what the basic message is. I mean, how are Muslims supposed to enlighten others of their way if they shun society and become outcasts?

 

[George P Burdell]

Never read any religious text.

 

[waggy]

I read sections of it when i took a "world religions" class a few years ago. I would like to get a copy to read but only one i seen was kinda expensive.

 

[Throckmorton]

The only fiction I've read in a long time was Lord of the Rings, which had more of an impact on my life than any religious books.

 

[0roo0roo]

"I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path."

aka be aware of people who might actually get you to think critically. a fear all cults have.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The only fiction I've read in a long time was Lord of the Rings, which had more of an impact on my life than any religious books.

The Silmarillion is a better comparison, as it's the creation myth for Middle Earth.

 

[IronWing]

I tried to read the Qu'ran. It was even duller than the Bible. Way too much preacher babel trying to create legitimacy for the new religion. Kind of like feeding the biblical begat tree Miracle Gro. It was a bit better than the Book of Mormon though. Hindu and Central Asian Buddhist texts are a lot more fun with multi-headed demons getting multi-decapitated.

 

[yllus]

Yes, in both Arabic (actually only partially in this language) and English.

One of the odd things about the Koran is that as a rite of passage, Muslims are required to read it in its original written form - that is, in Arabic. So you get a hell of a lot of non-Arabic speakers reading the holy book out loud but never understanding a word of it. After they've finished this recital, they're proclaimed to having completed reading the Koran. Which is patently untrue, is it not? Reading would imply some level of understanding, not merely mouthing word-sounds...

 

[Vonkhan]

Read it once and re-reading it a second time. I'm guessing you're reading an english translation

a lot is lost in translation ...

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I am a Muslim and I hear this from preachers every once in a while. "Befriend all kinds of people but stay true to your own beliefs." I am by no means an expert on the Quran; most of my learning is from what my parents taught me and when I feel the need to look up something in particular. So I hit the Index and start looking for the specific chapters/verses. This is my take on the thing:

I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path.

The Quran says that you need to build a strong moral fiber (Iman) where YOU have the power to influence others (positively) and not be influenced (negatively). From everything I remember learning as a child in Islamic Studies, it encourages you to befriend people who are different from you and setting a positive example.

Build strong, resilient character and lead others to the right path, don't follow their (wrong) path is what the basic message is. I mean, how are Muslims supposed to enlighten others of their way if they shun society and become outcasts?

What I want to know is how you apply the whole part about how you are supposed to kill non-believers?

I can understand the Bible because someone could actually live and do everything in there, when you take the old testament and new one and apply them, there is a lot of love and treat your neighbor as yourself stuff.

I can't see how someone believes the Qu?ran but then does not apply the part about killing the non-believers. It kind of seems like I take this part and apply it because I like it but not this part? Where as Christians take the bible and maybe do not follow it but they still believe that they should have followed the part they are not obeying?

A mixed messaging to me.

EDIT: I am not saying go out and kill people. I am just trying to understand how people translate that part into their lives..... Kinda scarry

EDIT 2: not trying to start a argument, but that question was asked a while back and the person didn't have a answer so I was wondering if you could shed any light.

 

[AStar617]

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
i got a free qu'ran from a hot deal here a couple years ago. It's freakin HUGE and weighs a ton.

Unfortunately, I havent had the motivation to open it up and read it.

That was my Hot Deal and I'm glad a few got something out of it and didn't choose to read too heavily into why I was offering it (I've never read it, nor am I even Muslim myself). The book that was sent to responders was definitely impressive, printed in full color with page accents etc. and bound like a really expensive college textbook but the size of a major metropolitan Yellow Pages :Q I too have only fanned thru it at this point, but I'm glad to have it for when I have time to explore somewhere down the road.

I'm also glad to see this thread hasn't yet devolved to flamebaiting and accusations of proselytizing, like mine did before the lock. Though the night is young...

 

[Daishiki]

Not yet, but eventually down the road I hope to. With regards to your question, theprodigalrebel's answer sounds sufficient. It's quite similar to the Christian view of "being in the world" as opposed to "being of the world."

 

[AStar617]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I am a Muslim and I hear this from preachers every once in a while. "Befriend all kinds of people but stay true to your own beliefs." I am by no means an expert on the Quran; most of my learning is from what my parents taught me and when I feel the need to look up something in particular. So I hit the Index and start looking for the specific chapters/verses. This is my take on the thing:

I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path.

The Quran says that you need to build a strong moral fiber (Iman) where YOU have the power to influence others (positively) and not be influenced (negatively). From everything I remember learning as a child in Islamic Studies, it encourages you to befriend people who are different from you and setting a positive example.

Build strong, resilient character and lead others to the right path, don't follow their (wrong) path is what the basic message is. I mean, how are Muslims supposed to enlighten others of their way if they shun society and become outcasts?

What I want to know is how you apply the whole part about how you are supposed to kill non-believers?

I can understand the Bible because someone could actually live and do everything in there, when you take the old testament and new one and apply them, there is a lot of love and treat your neighbor as yourself stuff.

I can't see how someone believes the Qu?ran but then does not apply the part about killing the non-believers. It kind of seems like I take this part and apply it because I like it but not this part? Where as Christians take the bible and maybe do not follow it but they still believe that they should have followed the part they are not obeying?

A mixed messaging to me.

EDIT: I am not saying go out and kill people. I am just trying to understand how people translate that part into their lives..... Kinda scarry

EDIT 2: not trying to start a argument, but that question was asked a while back and the person didn't have a answer so I was wondering if you could shed any light.

The problem with your logic is that the Bible also has several teachings involving putting infidels and false prophets to death--there's just not as much attention given to these in our largely Christian society as there is to that of a Muslim society, particularly in these times of strong war-driven emotions. Here's an example (Zechariah 13:3), with several parallel translations so you can make sure it's not taken out of context:

http://bible.cc/zechariah/13-3.htm

Would the above change your opinion of the contents of the Bible vs the contents of the Qu'ran any? Also, take a look at "Wesley's Notes" lower on that page for a good example of an interpretation of the verse which is very loose at best and softens the blow of the actual words. That willingness to idiomatically interpret our own text and directly interpret others is part of the problem, IMHO.

 

[0roo0roo]

well theres bad...and theres worse.
justifying one defective ideology with another is stupid.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I am a Muslim and I hear this from preachers every once in a while. "Befriend all kinds of people but stay true to your own beliefs." I am by no means an expert on the Quran; most of my learning is from what my parents taught me and when I feel the need to look up something in particular. So I hit the Index and start looking for the specific chapters/verses. This is my take on the thing:

I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path.

The Quran says that you need to build a strong moral fiber (Iman) where YOU have the power to influence others (positively) and not be influenced (negatively). From everything I remember learning as a child in Islamic Studies, it encourages you to befriend people who are different from you and setting a positive example.

Build strong, resilient character and lead others to the right path, don't follow their (wrong) path is what the basic message is. I mean, how are Muslims supposed to enlighten others of their way if they shun society and become outcasts?

What I want to know is how you apply the whole part about how you are supposed to kill non-believers?

I can understand the Bible because someone could actually live and do everything in there, when you take the old testament and new one and apply them, there is a lot of love and treat your neighbor as yourself stuff.

I can't see how someone believes the Qu?ran but then does not apply the part about killing the non-believers. It kind of seems like I take this part and apply it because I like it but not this part? Where as Christians take the bible and maybe do not follow it but they still believe that they should have followed the part they are not obeying?

A mixed messaging to me.

Are you serious? Have you actually read the bible? I can't comment on the Quran but I have read the bible cover to cover 3 times. "God" says to do a lot of killing for various reasons, sometimes even giving the method such as stoning, and Christians choose to outright ignore it. When most Catholics see someone working on the Sabbath (Sunday) they don't believe that they should kill them. They really don't believe that disobedient children should be stoned to death. They ignore those parts outright. From my very limited knowledge of radical Muslims is they choose to follow similar parts of the Quran whereas sane people ignore them (similar to how Catholics do).

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I am a Muslim and I hear this from preachers every once in a while. "Befriend all kinds of people but stay true to your own beliefs." I am by no means an expert on the Quran; most of my learning is from what my parents taught me and when I feel the need to look up something in particular. So I hit the Index and start looking for the specific chapters/verses. This is my take on the thing:

I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path.

The Quran says that you need to build a strong moral fiber (Iman) where YOU have the power to influence others (positively) and not be influenced (negatively). From everything I remember learning as a child in Islamic Studies, it encourages you to befriend people who are different from you and setting a positive example.

Build strong, resilient character and lead others to the right path, don't follow their (wrong) path is what the basic message is. I mean, how are Muslims supposed to enlighten others of their way if they shun society and become outcasts?

What I want to know is how you apply the whole part about how you are supposed to kill non-believers?

I can understand the Bible because someone could actually live and do everything in there, when you take the old testament and new one and apply them, there is a lot of love and treat your neighbor as yourself stuff.

I can't see how someone believes the Qu?ran but then does not apply the part about killing the non-believers. It kind of seems like I take this part and apply it because I like it but not this part? Where as Christians take the bible and maybe do not follow it but they still believe that they should have followed the part they are not obeying?

A mixed messaging to me.

Are you serious? Have you actually read the bible? I can't comment on the Quran but I have read the bible cover to cover 3 times. "God" says to do a lot of killing for various reasons, sometimes even giving the method such as stoning, and Christians choose to outright ignore it. When most Catholics see someone working on the Sabbath (Sunday) they don't believe that they should kill them. They really don't believe that disobedient children should be stoned to death. They ignore those parts outright. From my very limited knowledge of radical Muslims is they choose to follow similar parts of the Quran whereas sane people ignore them (similar to how Catholics do).

Maybe you need it a 4th and 5th time then because you still completely missed it. :thumbsup:

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: AStar617

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I am a Muslim and I hear this from preachers every once in a while. "Befriend all kinds of people but stay true to your own beliefs." I am by no means an expert on the Quran; most of my learning is from what my parents taught me and when I feel the need to look up something in particular. So I hit the Index and start looking for the specific chapters/verses. This is my take on the thing:

I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path.

The Quran says that you need to build a strong moral fiber (Iman) where YOU have the power to influence others (positively) and not be influenced (negatively). From everything I remember learning as a child in Islamic Studies, it encourages you to befriend people who are different from you and setting a positive example.

Build strong, resilient character and lead others to the right path, don't follow their (wrong) path is what the basic message is. I mean, how are Muslims supposed to enlighten others of their way if they shun society and become outcasts?

What I want to know is how you apply the whole part about how you are supposed to kill non-believers?

I can understand the Bible because someone could actually live and do everything in there, when you take the old testament and new one and apply them, there is a lot of love and treat your neighbor as yourself stuff.

I can't see how someone believes the Qu?ran but then does not apply the part about killing the non-believers. It kind of seems like I take this part and apply it because I like it but not this part? Where as Christians take the bible and maybe do not follow it but they still believe that they should have followed the part they are not obeying?

A mixed messaging to me.

EDIT: I am not saying go out and kill people. I am just trying to understand how people translate that part into their lives..... Kinda scarry

EDIT 2: not trying to start a argument, but that question was asked a while back and the person didn't have a answer so I was wondering if you could shed any light.

The problem with your logic is that the Bible also has several teachings involving putting infidels and false prophets to death--there's just not as much attention given to these in our largely Christian society as there is to that of a Muslim society, particularly in these times of strong war-driven emotions. Here's an example (Zechariah 13:3), with several parallel translations so you can make sure it's not taken out of context:

http://bible.cc/zechariah/13-3.htm

Would the above change your opinion of the contents of the Bible vs the contents of the Qu'ran any?

That's a very good point, reading just that from the Old Testament it truly does say that. Other parts say if a child rebels against his mother and father they are to take him out of the city and kill him. Back in the Old Testament there were a lot of things they were called to do. All the rituals and sacrifices. The covenant that was made between God and his people. They were to follow a very strict set of rules and if they did they were to be blessed, but no matter what the rules were they didn?t work and were not followed. So God?s people were cursed.

But I think you don?t believe in the New Testament correct? So in a way to make it easy for someone to be saved, Jesus came or in your version the prophet Isa, although the same people play two very different roles depending on the New testament or Quran.

In the New Testament he comes dies for the sins of the world so all the old ways of the Old Testament no longer apply, the sacrifices and making amends for your sins. All you have to do it believe in Jesus and what he did and you are ?Saved?.

But in the Quran although you recognize Jesus/Isa as being one of the greatest prophets up there with Muhammad (Not positive how to spell the name sorry). You believe he has not come yet to save the world but is coming. So you still get to paradise by ?earn it by deeds? system, and salvation is not guaranteed. Correct?

I am not an expert in either of these but this is what I have read so far.

I don?t expect this to change your mind because if I am stating facts from a book that Muslims believe is a perversion of the scriptures it holds no weight with you. I am just stating how I interpreter that verse.

Back then they were called to do away with false prophets but Jesus (in the new testament) changed all of that. See the difference?

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I am a Muslim and I hear this from preachers every once in a while. "Befriend all kinds of people but stay true to your own beliefs." I am by no means an expert on the Quran; most of my learning is from what my parents taught me and when I feel the need to look up something in particular. So I hit the Index and start looking for the specific chapters/verses. This is my take on the thing:

I do think that the Quran asks its believers to distance themselves from people who may lead them astray. The logic is if you surround yourself with people who think it's okay to drink, you might take to drink yourself. If you hang with people who think pre-marital sex is okay, you might end up thinking so yourself. If you hang out with people who don't believe in God and constantly argue about how stupid religion is, it might affect your faith and drive you away from the path.

The Quran says that you need to build a strong moral fiber (Iman) where YOU have the power to influence others (positively) and not be influenced (negatively). From everything I remember learning as a child in Islamic Studies, it encourages you to befriend people who are different from you and setting a positive example.

Build strong, resilient character and lead others to the right path, don't follow their (wrong) path is what the basic message is. I mean, how are Muslims supposed to enlighten others of their way if they shun society and become outcasts?

What I want to know is how you apply the whole part about how you are supposed to kill non-believers?

I can understand the Bible because someone could actually live and do everything in there, when you take the old testament and new one and apply them, there is a lot of love and treat your neighbor as yourself stuff.

I can't see how someone believes the Qu?ran but then does not apply the part about killing the non-believers. It kind of seems like I take this part and apply it because I like it but not this part? Where as Christians take the bible and maybe do not follow it but they still believe that they should have followed the part they are not obeying?

A mixed messaging to me.

Are you serious? Have you actually read the bible? I can't comment on the Quran but I have read the bible cover to cover 3 times. "God" says to do a lot of killing for various reasons, sometimes even giving the method such as stoning, and Christians choose to outright ignore it. When most Catholics see someone working on the Sabbath (Sunday) they don't believe that they should kill them. They really don't believe that disobedient children should be stoned to death. They ignore those parts outright. From my very limited knowledge of radical Muslims is they choose to follow similar parts of the Quran whereas sane people ignore them (similar to how Catholics do).

See my above responce, it's easy to misunderstand the bible if you don't look at the whole picture. :thumbsup:

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Are you serious? Have you actually read the bible? I can't comment on the Quran but I have read the bible cover to cover 3 times. "God" says to do a lot of killing for various reasons, sometimes even giving the method such as stoning, and Christians choose to outright ignore it. When most Catholics see someone working on the Sabbath (Sunday) they don't believe that they should kill them. They really don't believe that disobedient children should be stoned to death. They ignore those parts outright. From my very limited knowledge of radical Muslims is they choose to follow similar parts of the Quran whereas sane people ignore them (similar to how Catholics do).

We are supposed to ignore those parts? aw shit...