Have you read the Qu?ran ?

[Vic]

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
i got a free qu'ran from a hot deal here a couple years ago. It's freakin HUGE and weighs a ton.

Unfortunately, I havent had the motivation to open it up and read it.

Hey, I got in on that same hot deal. From the Council on American-Islamic Relations. It took like 6 months to show up, and then when I got it I was like WTF? they sent me a VERY expensive copy. Not at all what I was expecting but I was very pleased. Looks great in my bookcase.

 

[broon]

Originally posted by: Electric Amish
Haven't read the Qu'ran, the Koran, the Bible, or the Book of Mormon.

I prefer science fiction to plain fiction.

Interesting statement. Similar to my belief that a Ferrari drives like crap. I've never driven one but I know someone who knows someone who has and they didn't like it. Besides, it supports my belief that Porsche is a superior car to a Ferrari. So that's what I believe.

I've never read the Qu'ran.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The only fiction I've read in a long time was Lord of the Rings, which had more of an impact on my life than any religious books.

Ignorance is nothing to be proud of. I've read virtually every religious text there is, including the Quran and the Bible, and am not a believer or a follower. Islam is nice in its own way. I feel that of all the major religions it has the deepest and most profound understanding of the God concept. It's just not in my nature to subscribe to any one particular belief or to pledge allegiance to any one particular group.

Uh... and the Lord of the Rings is a religious book in its own way. I'm a huge fan of Tolkein's books and have read them all until the covers fell off (IMO his prose style was bar none the best of any author in the 20th century). He was also profoundly religious, devoutly Catholic, and very much outspoken about it. The religious symbolism in LOTR is immense. The ring itself is symbolic of Matthew 19:24. In order to go to Heaven (the land of the Valar in the West), Frodo had to venture into Hell (Mordor) and cast off all his material possessions that bound him in purgatory (Middle Earth). That's the entire story in a sentence.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be ignorant of. The God concept that you are talking about is just a very pervasive cultural construct that most humans happen to believe in. I have no reason to be ashamed of not reading a religious book. I'm sure it could help us understand the Islamic nations that are centered around it though.

I know Tolkien was a devout Catholic. I grew up Catholic, and at one time I was very religious, so I can't fault him. The themes that are inspired by his religion are almost universal.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The only fiction I've read in a long time was Lord of the Rings, which had more of an impact on my life than any religious books.

Ignorance is nothing to be proud of. I've read virtually every religious text there is, including the Quran and the Bible, and am not a believer or a follower. Islam is nice in its own way. I feel that of all the major religions it has the deepest and most profound understanding of the God concept. It's just not in my nature to subscribe to any one particular belief or to pledge allegiance to any one particular group.

Uh... and the Lord of the Rings is a religious book in its own way. I'm a huge fan of Tolkein's books and have read them all until the covers fell off (IMO his prose style was bar none the best of any author in the 20th century). He was also profoundly religious, devoutly Catholic, and very much outspoken about it. The religious symbolism in LOTR is immense. The ring itself is symbolic of Matthew 19:24. In order to go to Heaven (the land of the Valar in the West), Frodo had to venture into Hell (Mordor) and cast off all his material possessions that bound him in purgatory (Middle Earth). That's the entire story in a sentence.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be ignorant of. The God concept that you are talking about is just a very pervasive cultural construct that most humans happen to believe in. I have no reason to be ashamed of not reading a religious book. I'm sure it could help us understand the Islamic nations that are centered around it though.

I know Tolkien was a devout Catholic. I grew up Catholic, and at one time I was very religious, so I can't fault him. The themes that are inspired by his religion are almost universal.

Its true Vic, just because you know everything on a subject does not make everyone else ignorant. I could read all the harry potter books and then meet a kid whos only just read the first one, and then call him ignorant?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The only fiction I've read in a long time was Lord of the Rings, which had more of an impact on my life than any religious books.

Ignorance is nothing to be proud of. I've read virtually every religious text there is, including the Quran and the Bible, and am not a believer or a follower. Islam is nice in its own way. I feel that of all the major religions it has the deepest and most profound understanding of the God concept. It's just not in my nature to subscribe to any one particular belief or to pledge allegiance to any one particular group.

Uh... and the Lord of the Rings is a religious book in its own way. I'm a huge fan of Tolkein's books and have read them all until the covers fell off (IMO his prose style was bar none the best of any author in the 20th century). He was also profoundly religious, devoutly Catholic, and very much outspoken about it. The religious symbolism in LOTR is immense. The ring itself is symbolic of Matthew 19:24. In order to go to Heaven (the land of the Valar in the West), Frodo had to venture into Hell (Mordor) and cast off all his material possessions that bound him in purgatory (Middle Earth). That's the entire story in a sentence.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be ignorant of. The God concept that you are talking about is just a very pervasive cultural construct that most humans happen to believe in. I have no reason to be ashamed of not reading a religious book. I'm sure it could help us understand the Islamic nations that are centered around it though.

I know Tolkien was a devout Catholic. I grew up Catholic, and at one time I was very religious, so I can't fault him. The themes that are inspired by his religion are almost universal.

Its true Vic, just because you know everything on a subject does not make everyone else ignorant. I could read all the harry potter books and then meet a kid whos only just read the first one, and then call him ignorant?

A bit overly defensive there, don't you think? All I said is "ignorance is nothing to be proud of." Do you disagree?

 

[FeuerFrei]

Is it true that Muslims are instructed or allowed to lie about the doctrines they adhere to if it advances the cause of Islam? In cases where they are being taken to task over their doctrines for example.

That is what I've heard, and it's probably not the kind of thing I can expect a straight answer on.

 

[randay]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: randay

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
The only fiction I've read in a long time was Lord of the Rings, which had more of an impact on my life than any religious books.

Ignorance is nothing to be proud of. I've read virtually every religious text there is, including the Quran and the Bible, and am not a believer or a follower. Islam is nice in its own way. I feel that of all the major religions it has the deepest and most profound understanding of the God concept. It's just not in my nature to subscribe to any one particular belief or to pledge allegiance to any one particular group.

Uh... and the Lord of the Rings is a religious book in its own way. I'm a huge fan of Tolkein's books and have read them all until the covers fell off (IMO his prose style was bar none the best of any author in the 20th century). He was also profoundly religious, devoutly Catholic, and very much outspoken about it. The religious symbolism in LOTR is immense. The ring itself is symbolic of Matthew 19:24. In order to go to Heaven (the land of the Valar in the West), Frodo had to venture into Hell (Mordor) and cast off all his material possessions that bound him in purgatory (Middle Earth). That's the entire story in a sentence.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be ignorant of. The God concept that you are talking about is just a very pervasive cultural construct that most humans happen to believe in. I have no reason to be ashamed of not reading a religious book. I'm sure it could help us understand the Islamic nations that are centered around it though.

I know Tolkien was a devout Catholic. I grew up Catholic, and at one time I was very religious, so I can't fault him. The themes that are inspired by his religion are almost universal.

Its true Vic, just because you know everything on a subject does not make everyone else ignorant. I could read all the harry potter books and then meet a kid whos only just read the first one, and then call him ignorant?

A bit overly defensive there, don't you think? All I said is "ignorance is nothing to be proud of." Do you disagree?

you implied that he was ignorant(which is a little broad in meaning) and then qualified it with with the fact that you've read "virtually every religious text there is". sorry if i misunderstood.

 

[Atrail]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
Is it true that Muslims are instructed or allowed to lie about the doctrines they adhere to if it advances the cause of Islam? In cases where they are being taken to task over their doctrines for example.

That is what I've heard, and it's probably not the kind of thing I can expect a straight answer on.

If you are Muslim and someone puts a gun to your head and asks are you Muslim? (knowing if you say yes they pull the trigger)
You can say no or yes. It won't be held against you either way is my understanding.
I don't know how that advances the cause of Islam...

For anyone that has any questions and they want definitive answers go to your local mosque and ask away.

www.islamicfinder.org

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Atif

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
and don't even compare it to the us army. you CAN leave the us army, and you CAN speak out against it as many have once you have left. you can think ill thoughts write books and whatever you feel like, its called freedom of speech. don't confuse freedom of thought with freedom to kill which would be treason and is a much different thing.

LOL, why are you so offended? I asked you a random question and you inferred it to mean that I was "comparing" something to the punishment for treason in the U.S. Army.

As you cool down, I'm sure that even you'll admit that in the Army, the punishment for treason for a top-rank General is different than that of a new recruit fresh out of training, correct? Why is this so?

It is because an established veteran of the Army is understood to have a complete understanding of the cause he is representing. He is to be in completely agreement ideologically to the institution of the Army and his role within it. If this veteran commits treason in its highest form - abandoning the U.S. Army and joining the Army of North Korea - he will be severely punished when/if recovered.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, if a soldier, having just completed training, grows tired of the time commitment necessary to serve in the Army walks away from service, his punishment will be different. It may be that this individual only joined for the financial benefit offered by the Army, or because it was the "cool" thing to do.

You are obviously an educated individual, and for this reason alone, I am appalled by your ignorance with respect to the right to reserve capital punishment for acts of treason even in secular law (treason, as defined by the U.S. Constitution, treason is punishable by death in the U.S. even today).

In closing, I point out once more that the apostate, or one who commits treason against the rule of God is NOT killed. IF there were an Islamic State, (one that implements the social, penal, familial system of God) and there was a case of treason against the rule of the state (and by extension, God's rule), the individual would still NOT be killed necessarily. It would be the duty of the government to investigate the specific case, and, make a fair judgement. IF the act of treason against the state was heinous enough, the government would have the ability to hand down capital punishment, just as is the case in many Western and Eastern European governments today.

Peace

you were implying that there was a comparison.
but basically it comes down to this, an islamic state is an oppressive police state where they even police your thoughts. it doesn't matter how far they go with it, that they consider it treasonous makes it a poisonous environment for freedom of thought. islamic states are based on an oppression apartheid of the mind.

there are secular reasons for capital punishment, but we don't use it for having a thought crime.

 

[LordNoob]

Go to P&N.

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: Anubis
nope
havent read the bible either

Me neither

 

[FeuerFrei]

Originally posted by: Atrail

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
Is it true that Muslims are instructed or allowed to lie about the doctrines they adhere to if it advances the cause of Islam? In cases where they are being taken to task over their doctrines for example.

That is what I've heard, and it's probably not the kind of thing I can expect a straight answer on.

If you are Muslim and someone puts a gun to your head and asks are you Muslim? (knowing if you say yes they pull the trigger)
You can say no or yes. It won't be held against you either way is my understanding.
I don't know how that advances the cause of Islam...

For anyone that has any questions and they want definitive answers go to your local mosque and ask away.

www.islamicfinder.org

That example isn't really a doctrinal issue.

I meant more along the lines of a Muslim saying his religion promotes respect of women when it actually does not, just to make non-Muslims more accepting of Islam.
Does Islam teach people to deny their beliefs if said beliefs are morally reprehensible to "infidels" just so the "infidels" will have no qualms about putting you, the Muslim, in a position of authority (let's say US Senator) where you have more power to advance the cause of Islam?
Basically gaining influence through false pretenses.

 

[Atif]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
you were implying that there was a comparison.
but basically it comes down to this, an islamic state is an oppressive police state where they even police your thoughts. it doesn't matter how far they go with it, that they consider it treasonous makes it a poisonous environment for freedom of thought. islamic states are based on an oppression apartheid of the mind.

there are secular reasons for capital punishment, but we don't use it for having a thought crime.

I'm glad to see that you now have a proper understanding of Islam as a complete way of life, from top to bottom, and thankfully, are beginning to understand where the legal issue of treason would apply, if applicable, in an Islamic State.

Now, as for the assertion that an Islamic State, were one to exist, would serve as "thought police" you are once again, unfortunately, doing away with worldly knowledge you (clearly) have studied along the way in your life.

When the rule of God was enacted in Islamic States in the past, as in Andalucia, Al-Quds (Jerusalem), Turkey, et al., individuals were not restricted the freedoms of thinking, working, believing, worshipping, etc. In fact, it is well documented that the Jewish inhabitants of Andalucia and the Cossacks who willingly came under Islamic rule in Turkey flourished under the Islamic State.

Certainly, it may be easy, dare I say fun, for you to mudsling at Islam, however, bear in mind that your blanket accusations are not rooted in reality and instead reflect more on your personal vehemence and dislike for religion as a whole and, apparently, Islam in particular. No worries however, you have your bias and you are entitled to it

Reading

"To you be your Way, and to me mine" - Holy Qur'an

Peace

 

[AStar617]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: StevenYoo
i got a free qu'ran from a hot deal here a couple years ago. It's freakin HUGE and weighs a ton.

Unfortunately, I havent had the motivation to open it up and read it.

Hey, I got in on that same hot deal. From the Council on American-Islamic Relations. It took like 6 months to show up, and then when I got it I was like WTF? they sent me a VERY expensive copy. Not at all what I was expecting but I was very pleased. Looks great in my bookcase.

Glad you enjoyed my deal :thumbsup:

I said the same thing when it arrived. I was expecting something cheaper, a paperback romance novel size or something. It was MUCH more impressive, even down to the colored accents on most of the pages.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: yllus
There are at least three English translations I know of.

The Koran is considered by Muslims to be the directly-penned word of god, so yes, it is infallible. It is also the be-all and end-all of religious thought, despite the popularity of hadiths.

Which translation is infallible, or must I know Arabic?