Have you guys seen this "dreadlocks girl" from SanFran U?

[SheHateMe]

Rake, just back away from the thread. These folks are not receptive to the message you are trying to give....because they don't want to be, not because they don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Amandla's video should be more than enough to understand what appropriation actually is. She gets her point across in an understandable and non-confrontational way.


It's ridiculous how this stuff plays out and people still refuse to see that it's a problem. I think the girl who confronted the kid because of dreads is stupid...but that doesn't mean cultural appropriation is not a thing.

Its so "hip" these days for white girls to have full lips and big butts, but it's seen as "ugly" on a black girl. A perfect example of this
THATS ugly! But this is not....

It's cute and sexy to have "Kylie Jenner" lips, but a black woman with natural full lips gets disgusting comments. "Black" features look cool on White women but they don't on black women.

Don't get me started on the whole "some-white-girl brings braids/twists/etc back in style" thing that has happened in the past too.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

police brutality against blacks has come to the forefront.

As though this was a natural phenomenon?

It happened and anyone cared because of respect for blacks by whites.

Having such a hair style is not appropriation in all but a few instances of shitty artists selling records.

 

[realibrad]

"Black people are lazy" is racist but "Black people are ugly" isn't?

What are you even trying to say?

Correct.

As you said, big lips are black. If you do not like big lips, you prefer people with thinner lips. If you like strait hair, then you like curly natural black hair. If you like lighter skin, then you like black skin less. All of those are personal preference and do not make you racist.

Let me give you an example.

This stunning woman is my GF's aunt. He is brilliant and to me gorgeous, but not flawless. Im 6' and she is even taller. I happen to like shorter women. She also has a bit of a gummy smile. Her hair is ok but I know from experience she hates anyone touching it because she has to spend so much time on it. I like playing with hair so that would be a problem.

Would you say that I am a racist because she has physical features I do not like? Are the features I do not like inherent to black people? What features are black and what are not? To me she is black.

 

[SheHateMe]

In my opinion, saying that a minority is ugly for having features that you think look better on a white person is inherently racist.

It's like saying a black woman is ugly (negative) for having kinky, curly hair....but adding that the same feature is better (positive) on a white woman.

I have experienced this with both black and white guys. Both men I cut off immediately. The black guy was a friend for a LONG time...Ive known him since middle school, the white guy was a love interest in college. The black guy claimed that black girls with big butts were gross and unhealthy....but later on made comments about how he thinks white girls with asses are hot. The other thing that got him cut off was telling me that dark skinned girls were ugly and also that he dates white girls because they are "smart" and "not ghetto". I'm a dark skinned girl, he is much darker than I am (his parents are african), and I am more educated than he is. Needless to say, I was a bit pissed and he thought I was overreacting. He's an idiot and we are not friends anymore.

White guy....stopped talking to him because he was of the opinion that black girls looked better with straight hair because natural hair looks dirty and dry. Coincidentally, I've met plenty of black girls who wear weaves and probably have no hair of their own who also think this.


I'm not saying that you absolutely have to like my features or you are racist. Just don't tell me these features make me unattractive or less desirable while you take those same features you didn't like on me and say that they make white girls attractive and more desirable.

 

[Ackmed]

Its so "hip" these days for white girls to have full lips and big butts, but it's seen as "ugly" on a black girl. A perfect example of this
THATS ugly! But this is not....

It's cute and sexy to have "Kylie Jenner" lips, but a black woman with natural full lips gets disgusting comments. "Black" features look cool on White women but they don't on black women.

Don't get me started on the whole "some-white-girl brings braids/twists/etc back in style" thing that has happened in the past too.

People get "disgusting comments" no matter what. About every race, gender, clothes, etc. Claiming that white women get good comments because of full lips but black women get bad ones because of full lips is less than truthful. Or the same thing about asses. But you know that.

Braids/Deads are not a black only thing. It didn't even start with them. It is funny how when black women use a straight weave or straighten their hair, that is ok. Talk about hypocritical. When that is not natural. How about when a black person bleaches their skin to be lighter, or even to the point of being mistaken for white. There are dozens of famous black people who have done this, yet apparently that is not appropriation. More hypocrisy. You can buy the products all over, very accessible. A simple google search will show how much this is used. But a black person trying to be more white (literally!) is ok with the people here who are saying that it is wrong for a white person to wear dreads? Lunacy.

 

[Rakehellion]

Correct.

The fact that black women think black people are ugly is not normal because they're told that constantly by the society they live in which is 90% white is racism.

 

[Ackmed]

The fact that black women think black people are ugly is not normal because they're told that constantly by the society they live in which is 90% white is racism.

Your numbers are off, but thats besides the point. There are ugly people of every color. What does your theory say about when a white guy likes black girls more than white? Must be reverse racism right? Oh wait, that's a made up word too.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Rake, just back away from the thread. These folks are not receptive to the message you are trying to give....because they don't want to be, not because they don't understand what point you are trying to make.

Amandla's video should be more than enough to understand what appropriation actually is. She gets her point across in an understandable and non-confrontational way.


It's ridiculous how this stuff plays out and people still refuse to see that it's a problem. I think the girl who confronted the kid because of dreads is stupid...but that doesn't mean cultural appropriation is not a thing.

Its so "hip" these days for white girls to have full lips and big butts, but it's seen as "ugly" on a black girl. A perfect example of this
THATS ugly! But this is not....

It's cute and sexy to have "Kylie Jenner" lips, but a black woman with natural full lips gets disgusting comments. "Black" features look cool on White women but they don't on black women.

Don't get me started on the whole "some-white-girl brings braids/twists/etc back in style" thing that has happened in the past too.

OK that makes sense to me finally, I think. Let me make sure:

Basically the problem is a frustration with a double standard where a young white male can wear dreads when he in his early 20s because "it's cool" but then cut his hair when he is 25, put on a suit, and be statistically more likely to get a good job or loan than a black male his age no matter his hair or clothing style. The problem isn't that the white male isn't less respected when he is wearing dreads (that is what I kept getting hung up on, a white guy in dreads is considered trash to most of my in-laws), the problem is an appearance he is taking what he wants from the black community culturally without paying any of the cost of being black.

If that is truly it I am pretty sympathetic. Even if the white individual had no malice, he is accidentally flaunting his position in society by associating himself with a superficial part of the African American experience. At the same time the rational side of me considers the possibility that without such acts of appropriation "black culture" remains a hindrance to those who are genuinely part of it. It wasn't until white guys played rock, or white guys rapped that such music became culturally accepted, but today you here rap at major events filled with old white people. I don't think I want to advocate appropriation, but I can see the practical benefit. Life sucks sometimes I guess.

 

[SheHateMe]

People get "disgusting comments" no matter what. About every race, gender, clothes, etc. Claiming that white women get good comments because of full lips but black women get bad ones because of full lips is less than truthful. Or the same thing about asses. But you know that.

Fashion publications and other media are those responsible for praising certain features on women who are mostly white while not acknowledging (thinking its negative) minority women with those same features. White is already the standard of beauty. If you say its not, you are lying.

Historically, black women (black people, in general) have been mocked for their features, full lips, wide hips, big butts, and kinky or curly hair....all have been seen as negatives. But, I can pick up an issue of Teen vogue and see some bullshit article about how white girls are inspiring people to have fuller lips and bigger butts.

If all you took away from my statement was that white women are always praised for their looks...you're intentionally being obtuse. That's not what I said. I was speaking to a specific issue that is very real.

Braids/Deads are not a black only thing. It didn't even start with them. It is funny how when black women use a straight weave or straighten their hair, that is ok. Talk about hypocritical. When that is not natural.

As Amandla explained in her video..its linked in the first page of this thread...which you obviously have not watched is that "Appropriation occurs when a style leads to racist generalizations or stereotypes where it originated but is deemed as high-fashion, cool or funny when the privileged take it for themselves". I think you're smart enough to comprehend that statement. Let me know if you still want to be obtuse.

How about when a black person bleaches their skin to be lighter, or even to the point of being mistaken for white. There are dozens of famous black people who have done this, yet apparently that is not appropriation. More hypocrisy. You can buy the products all over, very accessible. A simple google search will show how much this is used. But a black person trying to be more white (literally!) is ok with the people here who are saying that it is wrong for a white person to wear dreads? Lunacy.

Skin bleaching is very dangerous for the skin. Many people do it because darker skin is seen as a negative in many countries. In Asia, there are so many cosmetic brands selling lightening cream. White skin is something Asians are very adamant about. It has become so pervasive in Asian culture that many of the models you will see in the media in Asian often have white skin. The pursuit of white beauty has also lead to a booming cosmetic surgery industry in Asia where women are often going under the knife to get features that are associated with white people.

Skin bleaching creams are also readily available across Africa, The Caribbean, and Brazil. People are bleaching their skin because lighter skin is deemed as beautiful and darker skin is not. I find it hilarious that you brought this up as an example of cultural appropriation when its actually a very sad example of how desperate people are to be more white/beautiful/attractive. Once again, the fashion industry and other media outlets are feeding into unhealthy images of what is beautiful and what is not. People are willing to put things that probably have carcinogens on their face just to be "better" looking.

....and there's also the fact that many brown skinned people who grace the covers of popular or high fashion publications often have their images photoshopped to give them lighter skin. You can find PLENTY of examples of that.

 

[realibrad]

The fact that black women think black people are ugly is not normal because they're told that constantly by the society they live in which is 90% white is racism.

You are saying they think black is ugly, but I believe you just put words into their mouths. Could it not be that they simply like strait hair and it be nothing to do with race?

 

[Exophase]

So I suppose this annoying white kid with dreadlocks gets a lot of respect and recognition for his hair style that a black person in his peer group would not?

Yeah I don't know about that. I have a really, really good feeling that he gets more crap over it than they would, not less. Both from people like the two accosting him over cultural appropriation, actual racists who think he's selling out his whiteness by trying to look black, and from others who just think he looks ridiculous or like he's trying too hard to look different.

It's not the same thing when some cultural characteristic is made more popular or recognized because some celebrity elevated it. Twerking may have become more of a pop culture curiosity after Miley Cyrus started doing it, but it's not just because she's white but because she was already a much bigger public spectacle than anyone else doing it.

 

[Rakehellion]

You are saying they think black is ugly, but I believe you just put words into their mouths.

No, check the list of articles above that corroborates my statement.

Could it not be that they simply like strait hair and it be nothing to do with race?

Why does it matter? You put on kid gloves any time someone says the word "black." Stop it.

And they don't like natural hair because for the last several hundred years America has had a culture that says everything about black society is inferior.

And racism is all about appearance. No one checks your ancestry.com page to find out if they racial slur they're using on you is factually relevant. If you have African features, you're black as far as society is concerned. It doesn't matter if you're a English-born Colombian. You're black.

 

[realibrad]

In my opinion, saying that a minority is ugly for having features that you think look better on a white person is inherently racist.

Take your believe and expand it into other areas than just race. I think legs are sexy on a woman, but I do not think they are sexy on a man. Does that mean I hate men, or is it a physical preference?

I like blue eyes which is not a trait that people with pure African linage have. Does that mean I am a racist because I like a trait that black people cannot have naturally by their inherent genetics?

It's like saying a black woman is ugly (negative) for having kinky, curly hair....but adding that the same feature is better (positive) on a white woman.

Personally I like Asian hair. It is usually strait and black. Are you saying I am racist to people who do not have the gene that allows for that type of hair?

If you believe a race of people are attributed to certain physical characteristics, and you do not like those characteristics you are racist?

I have experienced this with both black and white guys. Both men I cut off immediately. The black guy was a friend for a LONG time...Ive known him since middle school, the white guy was a love interest in college. The black guy claimed that black girls with big butts were gross and unhealthy....but later on made comments about how he thinks white girls with asses are hot. The other thing that got him cut off was telling me that dark skinned girls were ugly and also that he dates white girls because they are "smart" and "not ghetto". I'm a dark skinned girl, he is much darker than I am (his parents are african), and I am more educated than he is. Needless to say, I was a bit pissed and he thought I was overreacting. He's an idiot and we are not friends anymore.

Sounds like a racist. None of the things he seemed to care about in your description were about things other than race. You would be mistaken if you were to view every person though the assumption that if they like person x and not person y that it is because of race.

There may be many reasons that drove him to his views, but those are his views. I think they are wrong and racist, but they should not be expanded to others.

White guy....stopped talking to him because he was of the opinion that black girls looked better with straight hair because natural hair looks dirty and dry. Coincidentally, I've met plenty of black girls who wear weaves and probably have no hair of their own who also think this.

Would it be racist if the same guy like white girls that were tanned?

I'm not saying that you absolutely have to like my features or you are racist. Just don't tell me these features make me unattractive or less desirable while you take those same features you didn't like on me and say that they make white girls attractive and more desirable.

I have no doubt that some people are racist and will like feature x on a white girl more than a black girl. I personally like strait hair. All black women I have ever talked to will not let you touch their hair unless they just wash it and do nothing else to it. I like playing with my GFs hair and she likes when I play with it. If she has styled her hair, she does not want me to play with it. We give up the joy of that because she wants to keep a look for a time period. With black girls who do their hair, you cannot play with it or you will ruin it.

Does it make a person racist if they like a mixed girl because she has hair he can play with?

 

[Charmonium]

No, check the list of articles above that corroborates my statement.

I don't buy that a) those article represent the position you say they do and b) even if they do, it doesn't matter unless you can show that they aren't peopole already on the fringe. Anyone can publish a book where they try to sell a point of view, but that doesn't necessarily mean that point of view has any merit. And as for journal articles, there are hundreds of journals online that will publish anything you want for a fee and give you a nice official sounding publication for your CV. But they're still bullshit.

Anyone who is going to claim that an entire racial group has certain attitudes and beliefs had damn well better be able to produce empirical evidence proving that - and you can't. Because if you could, we wouldn't be relegated to having to rely on your word.

 

[realibrad]

No, check the list of articles above that corroborates my statement.

Their words are not words of all "blacks". Just so you know, the black community is made up of individuals and they have different opinions on topics. Just because you found some that say x does not mean all blacks agree. That is literally racist to believe that they speak for all black people.

Why does it matter? You put on kid gloves any time someone says the word "black." Stop it.

What is it that you think I am doing?

And they don't like natural hair because for the last several hundred years America has had a culture that says everything about black society is inferior.

I dont know if you have ever dated a black girl, but if you do, try and touch their hair while you are out at dinner. If they do anything to their hair other than simply wash it, then you are very likely to piss them off. Black hair is very hard to style due to the intrinsic nature of black hair. To mess it up means a lot more work to fix it than other types of hair.

So, while there are obviously racist roots ( 😎 ) in some people's preference, its not always true. To say that all people believe x is to take away their agency.

And racism is all about appearance. No one checks your ancestry.com page to find out if they racial slur they're using on you is factually relevant. If you have African features, you're black as far as society is concerned. It doesn't matter if you're a English-born Colombian. You're black.

Again wrong. I really do find it amazing how you can be so stupid and yet so confident in how you speak.

If racism were all about looks, then explain why saying black people love fried chicken is about looks.

You really should just stop and think a little.

 

[realibrad]

watch the video I posted. Thats really an excellent explanation of the issue.

So, I watched the video dixi put up as I assume its the one you are talking about.

The issue seems to be that because black people have been abused, they should be allowed to keep things that have emerged from their community. Styles such as afro and corn rows should not be used by anyone other than black people. The argument is that anyone who uses those styles that is not black is taking something that is for black people by black people and watering it down.

I find that argument amazing. It is really saying that some things should be black and other things should be white. Somehow our society has moved away from integration and back to keep some things black and some things white. Very sad.

Rather than being proud that black people have created something others want, some fight to keep it black. Its literally segregation.

 

[Rakehellion]

Black hair is very hard to style due to the intrinsic nature of black hair. To mess it up means a lot more work to fix it than other types of hair.

No, not at all. Dreadlocks are pretty low maintenance. A perm is high maintenance.

You have never touched a woman in real life.

Their words are not words of all "blacks". Just so you know, the black community is made up of individuals and they have different opinions on topics.

No shit, Sherlock. But millions of people feel the same way. We can't elect a president unless 100% of people vote for the same candidate, right?

And weren't you the one saying that black women hate natural hair? D:

If racism were all about looks, then explain why saying black people love fried chicken is about looks.

So you think that stereotype is based on the fact that blacks eat more fried chicken than everyone else? Do you have any evidence to back up this claim or are you just racist?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm still waiting for the study that shows white people with dreadlocks are unaffected relative to white people without dreadlocks, while black people with dreadlocks are rejected relative to non-dreadlocked black people.

 

[Rakehellion]

I don't buy that a) those article represent the position you say they do and b) even if they do, it doesn't matter unless you can show that they aren't peopole already on the fringe. Anyone can publish a book where they try to sell a point of view, but that doesn't necessarily mean that point of view has any merit.

So you didn't skim any of the articles and are making broad assumptions that can be used against literally any argument. Super. :thumbsup:

 

[Charmonium]

So you didn't skim any of the articles and are making broad assumptions that can be used against literally any argument. Super. :thumbsup:

Maybe you didn't notice but there aren't any links. Do you imagine that I'm going to try to look each one of those articles up when I have no assurance of any kind that they aren't bullshit?

In case you don't understand what I'm asking for, provide a couple of definitive quotes from the books or articles that support your position and show me that these are reputable folks publishing in peer reviewed journals.

The burden here is on you to prove your point not on me to disprove it. That's how these things generally work. 🙄

 

[Sulaco]

So you didn't skim any of the articles and are making broad assumptions that can be used against literally any argument. Super. :thumbsup:

I'm still waiting on some kind of link showing the original video is fake, as you claimed.

 

[realibrad]

No, not at all. Dreadlocks are pretty low maintenance. A perm is high maintenance.

There are far more styles for black women that are more maintenance than there are low maintenance.

You have never touched a woman in real life.

Good job.

No shit, Sherlock. But millions of people feel the same way. We can't elect a president unless 100% of people vote for the same candidate, right?

Lol. So your logic is that because you have links of people saying something, it must mean the majority of black people believe something. Its like you dont even realize you are making a stereotype for a group.

And weren't you the one saying that black women hate natural hair? D:

No. When did I say black women hate natural hair? I said...

It is because they prefer the look and not because they want to look white

I dont know if you are just unable to follow a conversation but you did this in the last thread too. Its like you have trouble keeping thoughts in order.

So you think that stereotype is based on the fact that blacks eat more fried chicken than everyone else? Do you have any evidence to back up this claim or are you just racist?

Wow, way to totally miss the point.

You said that racism is all about looks. I think saying all black people like fried chicken is racist, but I would not make the argument that its racist because of looks. I would say its racist because it makes a generalization about a preference someone might have due to their race.

Also, you never answered about what you meant about using gloves on this topic. Are you not going to answer that?

 

[Zaap]

So you think that stereotype is based on the fact that blacks eat more fried chicken than everyone else? Do you have any evidence to back up this claim or are you just racist?

Wow, just wow.

If there were some kind of leftloon award for purposeful misunderstanding and then running with it in order to try and score a cheap 'point', then this masterpeice deserves it.

The thing is with you, I think you actually *ARE* this dumb.

 

[Rakehellion]

There are far more styles for black women that are more maintenance than there are low maintenance.

Source?

Lol. So your logic is that because you have links of people saying something, it must mean the majority of black people believe something.

Did I say that? No. It could be 10% of blacks. That's still millions of people.

When did I say black women hate natural hair? I said...

Oh, so they don't hate natural hair, they just prefer not to have it.

You're playing semantics now. That's boring.

You said that racism is all about looks. I think saying all black people like fried chicken is racist, but I would not make the argument that its racist because of looks. I would say its racist because it makes a generalization about a preference someone might have due to their race.

Only black people are made fun of for eating fried chicken. Why is that? If it's because of their higher than average fried chicken consumption, please provide evidence for this claim.

Also, you never answered about what you meant about using gloves on this topic. Are you not going to answer that?

You have this insane fear and reverence for the word "racist" as if hearing it is the worst thing a person could endure.

 

[JSt0rm]

So, I watched the video dixi put up as I assume its the one you are talking about.

The issue seems to be that because black people have been abused, they should be allowed to keep things that have emerged from their community. Styles such as afro and corn rows should not be used by anyone other than black people. The argument is that anyone who uses those styles that is not black is taking something that is for black people by black people and watering it down.

I find that argument amazing. It is really saying that some things should be black and other things should be white. Somehow our society has moved away from integration and back to keep some things black and some things white. Very sad.

Rather than being proud that black people have created something others want, some fight to keep it black. Its literally segregation.

But that's not the argument. So I don't know what to tell you.