Have You Gotten Your Covid Vaccine? Thread.

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Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
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There is something seriously flawed with this report: https://wallethub.com/edu/safest-states-during-covid/86567

According to this WalletHub study, South Dakota was the safest state during COVID. The same South Dakota that had Kristi Noem as governor. The same South Dakota that held super spreader events known as Sturgis in 2020/2021 with zero mask mandates/social distancing measures (leading to increased infections in neighboring states.) The same South Dakota that, incidentally, ranks 3rd in “Highest levels of community transmission” in this same study (probably mislabeled graph but belies the point about how dumb this study is.)

Looking at the Death Rate vs. Vax Rate ranking, NC should clearly be #1.

The study then claims that red states were safer than blue states during COVID. O RLY??? We know that death rates were high during the early waves of COVID which happened on the coasts (Washington, California, NY and NJ.) Death rates are triple weighted, while hospitalization rates or only 1x weight. But early lockdowns in those states helped slow the spread to others.

Looking at methodology, I’m not sure they even bothered doing rankings on a per capita basis, which is kinda dumb when you’re talking about an airborne infectious disease and the outsized impact it would have given population density.

Finally, they labeled NC as a “red state” given election results, nevermind that we had a Blue governor and HHS secretary considered for that cabinet post in the Biden administration, and all the policies and mask mandates to go along with it. Might have something to do with vax rates and infections maybe? Could that be skewing things in favor of “red” states???
Rural areas would usually have lower rate of infections than dense Urban areas with a respiratory virus. So yeah really in order to compare the effectiveness of mitigation measures you need to compare areas of equal population density. Really dumb comparison.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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So you would risk a 1 in 100 chance of dying rather than take a needle for a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying?

People do struggle with risk and math I guess.
To be fair, you did leave out critical details in your hypothetical. Does the disease your hypothetical example spread? If the vaccine reduces spread sufficiently, and 100% are vaccinated, then it is possible that there are 0 deaths. Asking what percentage of 0 people have done something is an undefined number. For example, what percent of humans that have both swam in the core of the sun and walked on the surface of Neptune have green hair? A percent of a null set is not defined.

If it spreads to everyone, then the comparison is 1:10000 vs 1:100. But if the disease is stopped due to the near 100% vaccination rate, then those are not correct risks. The risk of death is roughly 0 in both cases since the disease no longer can spread to this new person.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
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To be fair, you did leave out critical details in your hypothetical. Does the disease your hypothetical example spread? If the vaccine reduces spread sufficiently, and 100% are vaccinated, then it is possible that there are 0 deaths. Asking what percentage of 0 people have done something is an undefined number. For example, what percent of humans that have both swam in the core of the sun and walked on the surface of Neptune have green hair? A percent of a null set is not defined.
The details were implied. The statement “the vaccine was 99.99% effective at preventing death in a 100% vaccinated population” implies that the vaccine still allows transmission and that vaccinated individuals did die.

If there had been no deaths among the population then it would have been 100% effective against death.

At least that was what I was going for.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
7,288
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So you would risk a 1 in 100 chance of dying rather than take a needle for a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying?

People do struggle with risk and math I guess.
This guy would play Russian Roulette with a single shot derringer.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,550
29,581
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This is a very misleading headline that should be changed. Neutralizing antibodies are only one part of the protection that vaccination offers and also protection from infection is far less important than protection from severe outcomes, which vaccination gives long lasting protection from.

edit: changed 'article' to 'headline' because the article mentions it later. Still, a terrible headline.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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This is a very misleading headline that should be changed. Neutralizing antibodies are only one part of the protection that vaccination offers and also protection from infection is far less important than protection from severe outcomes, which vaccination gives long lasting protection from.

edit: changed 'article' to 'headline' because the article mentions it later. Still, a terrible headline.
I agree with this, that the protection lasts more than a few weeks, but would also add that the Moderna vaccine has 3.3x the dosage of the Pfizer. That is why the Moderna vaccine offers protection for longer.

I would also point out that the relatively shorter period of protection for Pfizer is only for Omicron, which is mentioned in the article. Undoubtedly because Omicron is more infectious than the earlier strains, it's harder to protect against infection.

But Omicron is far less deadly than the earlier variants. Unless you're over 70, it isn't much deadlier than a flu, and a flu is much deadlier than Omicron for children. Omicron has been a blessing in disguise. Because of it's high infectivity and low mortality rate, it has spread a layer of natural immunity on top of the vaccine immunity. It's why COVID deaths have dropped off so much.

My adult daughter got Omicron after being vaccinated 3x times. It was nothing. Lasted 3 days. She said it was no worse than a bad cold. People need to stop obsessing over Omicron. Just get the vaccination and boosters, and move on with your life.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,550
29,581
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I agree with this, that the protection lasts more than a few weeks, but would also add that the Moderna vaccine has 3.3x the dosage of the Pfizer. That is why the Moderna vaccine offers protection for longer.

I would also point out that the relatively shorter period of protection for Pfizer is only for Omicron, which is mentioned in the article. Undoubtedly because Omicron is more infectious than the earlier strains, it's harder to protect against infection.

But Omicron is far less deadly than the earlier variants. Unless you're over 70, it isn't much deadlier than a flu, and a flu is much deadlier than Omicron for children. Omicron has been a blessing in disguise. Because of it's high infectivity and low mortality rate, it has spread a layer of natural immunity on top of the vaccine immunity. It's why COVID deaths have dropped off so much.

My adult daughter got Omicron after being vaccinated 3x times. It was nothing. Lasted 3 days. She said it was no worse than a bad cold. People need to stop obsessing over Omicron. Just get the vaccination and boosters, and move on with your life.
This is what I have done - I'll get every shot I'm authorized to take as soon as I can get it but otherwise I take no precautions to avoid COVID.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,681
10,652
136
This is what I have done - I'll get every shot I'm authorized to take as soon as I can get it but otherwise I take no precautions to avoid COVID.
Yup, me too. I stopped wearing the masks the day it was no longer required where I live. Still, 50% of the people I see in stores are wearing them. At least where I live, we're getting to be like Japan and China, where people wear masks when they leave their houses just as a general precaution. I don't like it. It's very impersonal, people walking around wearing masks all the time. And for what? We never wore masks for the seasonal flu. Why should we wear them for something that isn't any more likely to kill us?
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
22,175
15,287
136
Yup, me too. I stopped wearing the masks the day it was no longer required where I live. Still, 50% of the people I see in stores are wearing them. At least where I live, we're getting to be like Japan and China, where people wear masks when they leave their houses just as a general precaution. I don't like it. It's very impersonal, people walking around wearing masks all the time. And for what? We never wore masks for the seasonal flu. Why should we wear them for something that isn't any more likely to kill us?
My wife frequently wears masks but usually the basic ones that are ineffective if most of the people around you aren't masked. I've asked her several times "what's the point?" I haven't received any answer based on actual facts.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
29,261
5,442
126
Yup, me too. I stopped wearing the masks the day it was no longer required where I live. Still, 50% of the people I see in stores are wearing them. At least where I live, we're getting to be like Japan and China, where people wear masks when they leave their houses just as a general precaution. I don't like it. It's very impersonal, people walking around wearing masks all the time. And for what? We never wore masks for the seasonal flu. Why should we wear them for something that isn't any more likely to kill us?
My wife frequently wears masks but usually the basic ones that are ineffective if most of the people around you aren't masked. I've asked her several times "what's the point?" I haven't received any answer based on actual facts.
Yeah I'm in a similar boat. No one around me masks, so it's somewhat pointless since masking is all about reducing the risk for others around you.

I actually do need to see if I can get another booster because I take immune-suppressing medication.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,681
10,652
136
My wife frequently wears masks but usually the basic ones that are ineffective if most of the people around you aren't masked. I've asked her several times "what's the point?" I haven't received any answer based on actual facts.
She can't answer with facts, because germaphobia is not rational by definition. And it's perked up in lots of people since COVID. My daughter is bad enough, taking extreme precautions to the point where she tests herself for COVID twice a week. Then she gets it anyway, but it's very mild, and she still isn't convinced to ease off the precautions, even though she's vaxxed, boosted, and has natural immunity as it's only been 6 weeks since she had it.

But her friend is worse to the point where it's pathological. I'm told she's having marital problems because she insists on home schooling her 7 year old because she's afraid of him getting COVID. And her husband is insisting he be put back in school, because unsocialized kids can have all kinds of problems, including even sociopathy. But she won't even let the kid out to play with other kids. And now my daughter wants to visit, but she won't let her come if she goes by plane, bus or train, so she must drive 8 hours to get there, and she must quarantine herself for 3 days beforehand.

And you know what she does for a living? She's a doctor for crying out loud. A pediatrician. But she only does part time telemedicine now, having quit her residency. Now, you'd think she'd know that the mortality from Omicron for a vaxxed 7 year old is somewhere between 1 in 100,000 and 1 in a 1,000,000. She graduated from one of the top medical schools in the country. You'd think she'd know these facts, right? But facts don't matter when it comes to fears and anxieties.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
22,998
5,065
136
Idk.... I don't like wearing a mask BUT my entire thinking about infectious disease and being out among the "masses" (and breathing their air!) has changed completely over the last two years.

My feeling is that rather then worrying too much about Covid now, we didn't worry nearly enough before about needlessly spreading any kind of infectious agent.

Not letting that 7 year-old go back to school does sound completely over the top though.... home-schooling can be done right but it can't be "quarantine" schooling!
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,173
4,913
136
Yup, me too. I stopped wearing the masks the day it was no longer required where I live. Still, 50% of the people I see in stores are wearing them. At least where I live, we're getting to be like Japan and China, where people wear masks when they leave their houses just as a general precaution. I don't like it. It's very impersonal, people walking around wearing masks all the time. And for what? We never wore masks for the seasonal flu. Why should we wear them for something that isn't any more likely to kill us?
Well, there is this...


 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
7,288
5,507
136
This is what I have done - I'll get every shot I'm authorized to take as soon as I can get it but otherwise I take no precautions to avoid COVID.
We have a very similar approach to life during a pandemic. Vaxx'ed and boosted x2, but when we find ourselves where "the great unwashed" also congregate, i.e. the grocery stores, Sam's Club, large retail stores, etc., we do wear masks. Going out to meet friends at a brewery, etc., we leave the masks in the car.

We are both in our 70s, and have health issues that could make COVID a bad trip.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
15,390
9,822
146
Yeah I'm in a similar boat. No one around me masks, so it's somewhat pointless since masking is all about reducing the risk for others around you.

I actually do need to see if I can get another booster because I take immune-suppressing medication.
I’ll suggest getting a Cambridge mask. Tested to meet N99 standards (but not N99 since they aren’t disposable), means it protects you from others assuming you get a decent fit.

You can get them with or without valves or valve seals. That way you can decide if you want to offend your red hat wearing friends by protecting them from you.

https://us.cambridgemask.com/pages/filter-technology
 
Mar 11, 2004
21,858
4,050
126
My wife frequently wears masks but usually the basic ones that are ineffective if most of the people around you aren't masked. I've asked her several times "what's the point?" I haven't received any answer based on actual facts.
I think its more of a signal that she's not an inconsiderate asshole than anything. At this point even possibly a bit of an act of rebellion. I get funny looks from people at work because I put on my mask the moment I walk in the door and leave it on typically until the end of shift even. I'd just shrug if anyone asked why. Some of the people are assholes so I'd probably just say because I feel like it because I know it irks them.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
22,998
5,065
136
Covid daily-positivity rate in Connecticut right now is just a fine-pube below 14%.

:confused:

I'm throwing on an N95 anytime I go indoors with others again for the time-being.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
29,261
5,442
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Covid daily-positivity rate in Connecticut right now is just a fine-pube below 14%.

:confused:

I'm throwing on an N95 anytime I go indoors with others again for the time-being.
6.7% in my county, which is actually somewhat surprising. at the peak of omicron, it was up at ~30% :eek:
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
7,288
5,507
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Covid daily-positivity rate in Connecticut right now is just a fine-pube below 14%.

:confused:

I'm throwing on an N95 anytime I go indoors with others again for the time-being.
We are still masking in larger public places, basically any retail such as grocery stores, Home Depot, etc.

Being retired, we also avoid these businesses on weekends, when they are more crowded. However, I did have to make a quick run to Sam's Club on Saturday for a few items that couldn't wait. I would estimate that 85% - 90% of customers and staff were not wearing masks.
 

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