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#### fskimospy

##### Elite Member
Essentially...how many people have two doses but not a 3rd? 50-60% of the "fully vaxxed" population?
The elderly are overwhelmingly the highest risk group and vax rates for them are at 90%+ from what I've read - there just aren't that many unvaccinated old people out there to kill at this point. As he said, base rate fallacy but for the reporting to not mention this is irresponsible.

#### Hans Gruber

##### Golden Member
I am confused by this thread. The 1st and second dose is two doses. The 3rd shot is booster #3 and if you are over 50 years of age. You get the 4th dose of the covid vaccine.

When people talk about getting their 2nd booster. Do they mean their 2nd shot or their 3rd shot?

#### hal2kilo

##### Lifer
It has been clear for quite some time that with Omicron and its subvariants you're going to want at least the 1st booster. If you are older and/or have medical conditions the 2nd too.

A multivalent vaccine will probably be available in the fall.

#### Lanyap

##### Elite Member
I am confused by this thread. The 1st and second dose is two doses. The 3rd shot is booster #3 and if you are over 50 years of age. You get the 4th dose of the covid vaccine.

When people talk about getting their 2nd booster. Do they mean their 2nd shot or their 3rd shot?

For most people

2nd booster = 4th shot

1st shot = full primary dose
2nd shot = full primary dose
3rd shot = partial booster dose
4th shot = partial booster dose

This is for Moderna
Primary Series:
Each primary series dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is 0.5 mL.

The Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is administered as a primary series of two doses (0.5 mL each)
1 month apart to individuals 18 years of age or older.

A third primary series dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (0.5 mL) at least 1 month
following the second dose is authorized for administration to individuals at least 18 years of age
who have undergone solid organ transplantation, or who are diagnosed with conditions that are
considered to have an equivalent level of immunocompromise.

Booster Dose:
The booster dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is 0.25 mL.

A single Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine booster dose (0.25 mL) may be administered at least 5
months after completing a primary series of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine or SPIKEVAX
(COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) to individuals 18 years of age or older.

A single booster dose of the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine (0.25 mL) may be administered to
individuals 18 years of age and older as a heterologous booster dose following completion of
primary vaccination with another authorized or approved COVID-19 vaccine. The dosing
interval for the heterologous booster dose is the same as that authorized for a booster dose of the
vaccine used for primary vaccination.

#### brycejones

##### Lifer
I am confused by this thread. The 1st and second dose is two doses. The 3rd shot is booster #3 and if you are over 50 years of age. You get the 4th dose of the covid vaccine.

When people talk about getting their 2nd booster. Do they mean their 2nd shot or their 3rd shot?
4th shot assuming they started with the mRNA vaccines.

Hans Gruber

#### Paratus

##### Lifer
This is not encouraging

Data shows vaccinated U.S. citizens made up more than 40% of COVID-19 deaths during omicron peak, as deaths continue to rise in Wisconsin (yahoo.com)

A few key points:

"A pandemic of — and by — the unvaccinated is not correct. People still need to take care in terms of prevention and action if they became symptomatic," he added.

and

The vast majority of vaccinated deaths are among people who did not get a booster shot, according to state data provided to the Post. Health officials say this is all the more reason to get a booster dose.

And finally:

Data still shows that the unvaccinated are more likely to suffer severe illness or death compared to the vaccinated, but it is clear that vaccinated people made up a significant portion of recent COVID deaths.
Hypothetical for you. In a 100% vaccinated population with a vaccine that is 99.99% effective at preventing death what percentage of the people who do die are vaccinated?

If the disease is fatal to 1% of the unvaccinated would you take that vaccine?

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#### Lanyap

##### Elite Member
This is not encouraging

Data shows vaccinated U.S. citizens made up more than 40% of COVID-19 deaths during omicron peak, as deaths continue to rise in Wisconsin (yahoo.com)

A few key points:

"A pandemic of — and by — the unvaccinated is not correct. People still need to take care in terms of prevention and action if they became symptomatic," he added.

and

The vast majority of vaccinated deaths are among people who did not get a booster shot, according to state data provided to the Post. Health officials say this is all the more reason to get a booster dose.

And finally:

Data still shows that the unvaccinated are more likely to suffer severe illness or death compared to the vaccinated, but it is clear that vaccinated people made up a significant portion of recent COVID deaths.

I see what you did there.

A few more key points from the original WaPo article:
A key explanation for the rise in deaths among the vaccinated is that covid-19 fatalities are again concentrated among the elderly.

Nearly two-thirds of the people who died during the omicron surge were 75 and older, according to a Post analysis, compared with a third during the delta wave. Seniors are overwhelmingly immunized, but vaccines are less effective and their potency wanes over time in older age groups.

Experts say they are not surprised that vaccinated seniors are making up a greater share of the dead, even as vaccine holdouts died far more often than the vaccinated during the omicron surge, according to the CDC. As more people are infected with the virus, the more people it will kill, including a greater number who are vaccinated but among the most vulnerable.

The bulk of vaccinated deaths are among people who did not get a booster shot, according to state data provided to The Post. In two of the states, California and Mississippi, three-quarters of the vaccinated senior citizens who died in January and February did not have booster doses. Regulators in recent weeks have authorized second booster doses for people over the age of 50, but administration of first booster doses has stagnated.

TL;DR
If you are old you need to get your booster shots and take appropriate preventative precautions.

#### blackangst1

##### Lifer
Hypothetical for you. In a 100% vaccinated population with a vaccine that is 99.99% effective at preventing death what percentage of the people who do die are vaccinated?

If the disease is fatal to 1% of the unvaccinated would you take that vaccine?
In the case of covid? Yes. Iver never been anti-covid vaccine.

#### blackangst1

##### Lifer
I see what you did there.

A few more key points from the original WaPo article:

TL;DR
If you are old you need to get your booster shots and take appropriate preventative precautions.
Yep. Never argued otherwise.

#### MtnMan

##### Diamond Member
I am confused by this thread. The 1st and second dose is two doses. The 3rd shot is booster #3 and if you are over 50 years of age. You get the 4th dose of the covid vaccine.

When people talk about getting their 2nd booster. Do they mean their 2nd shot or their 3rd shot?
4th shot. My COVID vaccine card is now full.

#### bononos

##### Diamond Member
I am confused by this thread. The 1st and second dose is two doses. The 3rd shot is booster #3 and if you are over 50 years of age. You get the 4th dose of the covid vaccine.

When people talk about getting their 2nd booster. Do they mean their 2nd shot or their 3rd shot?
It could be their 3rd or 4th. The J&J vaccine only has 1 dose so the 2nd booster is their 3rd shot. For vaccines with a 2 dose regimen, it would be their 4th.

Ken g6

#### bononos

##### Diamond Member
Good question. China's vaccine rate is much higher than the US rate. Guess they don't have MAGAhatters.

China: Fully vaccinated 86% boosted 50%
US: Fully vaccinated 66%, boosted 30%

Of course, they are packed in tighter than sardines in a tin.
I came across some recent news that said China hasn't approved mrna vaccines like pfizer yet. The type of vaccines that is mostly used in China has a lower immune response and doesn't prevent transmission as much as Pfizer/Moderna.
And some data also suggests that its less effective at prevent severe disease and death in older people which is why some countries like Brazil who used Chinese vaccines have switched to mrna ones for their booster doses.

#### fskimospy

##### Elite Member
I came across some recent news that said China hasn't approved mrna vaccines like pfizer yet. The type of vaccines that is mostly used in China has a lower immune response and doesn't prevent transmission as much as Pfizer/Moderna.
And some data also suggests that its less effective at prevent severe disease and death in older people which is why some countries like Brazil who used Chinese vaccines have switched to mrna ones for their booster doses.
Also those vaccination numbers are misleading and population density seems to have little correlation with covid infection rates. (Crowding, not density, is what matters)

While China’s overall vaccination rate is high 1) as you mention it is with a vaccine that appears to be less effective than mRNA ones and 2) among the elderly vaccination rates are actually a lot lower than in the US.

Since the elderly are by far the most vulnerable China basically has a situation where the people actually at risk of death aren’t protected or are poorly protected. What I don’t get though is why China isn’t forcing vaccination on these people. For a country that is perfectly comfortable with sealing people in their apartments, restaurants, etc. if there is an outbreak injecting them with a vaccine is too authoritarian?

#### K1052

##### Lifer
What I don’t get though is why China isn’t forcing vaccination on these people. For a country that is perfectly comfortable with sealing people in their apartments, restaurants, etc. if there is an outbreak injecting them with a vaccine is too authoritarian?
I'm not sure if there is something cultural or the government is just refusing to change course because they feel it would be embarrassing after sinking so much into COVID zero policy.

#### sdifox

##### No Lifer
I'm not sure if there is something cultural or the government is just refusing to change course because they feel it would be embarrassing after sinking so much into COVID zero policy.
national pride is more important than Chinese citizen lives :colbert: They refused to use mrna even though a company already licenced it.

bononos

#### cytg111

##### Lifer
In the case of covid? Yes. Iver never been anti-covid vaccine.
Its almost like you're dodging the math on purpose.

#### brycejones

##### Lifer
Its almost like you're dodging the math on purpose.
There is no almost about it.

#### bononos

##### Diamond Member
national pride is more important than Chinese citizen lives :colbert: They refused to use mrna even though a company already licenced it.
I think they've shot themselves in the foot when their official news played up the risks of mrna vaccines vs their homegrown whole virus ones. It seems like they would rather not roll out foreign mrna vaccines/boosters (like many other countries which have used Chinese Sinovac vaccines have done) and face embarrassing questions. But they are trying to quickly complete ongoing final trials of their own mrna vaccines.

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#### Lezunto

##### Senior member
Janssen vaccine
Pfizer booster
Moderna booster

I'm an older guy.

#### UNCjigga

##### Lifer
There is something seriously flawed with this report: https://wallethub.com/edu/safest-states-during-covid/86567

According to this WalletHub study, South Dakota was the safest state during COVID. The same South Dakota that had Kristi Noem as governor. The same South Dakota that held super spreader events known as Sturgis in 2020/2021 with zero mask mandates/social distancing measures (leading to increased infections in neighboring states.) The same South Dakota that, incidentally, ranks 3rd in “Highest levels of community transmission” in this same study (probably mislabeled graph but belies the point about how dumb this study is.)

Looking at the Death Rate vs. Vax Rate ranking, NC should clearly be #1.

The study then claims that red states were safer than blue states during COVID. O RLY??? We know that death rates were high during the early waves of COVID which happened on the coasts (Washington, California, NY and NJ.) Death rates are triple weighted, while hospitalization rates or only 1x weight. But early lockdowns in those states helped slow the spread to others.

Looking at methodology, I’m not sure they even bothered doing rankings on a per capita basis, which is kinda dumb when you’re talking about an airborne infectious disease and the outsized impact it would have given population density.

Finally, they labeled NC as a “red state” given election results, nevermind that we had a Blue governor and HHS secretary considered for that cabinet post in the Biden administration, and all the policies and mask mandates to go along with it. Might have something to do with vax rates and infections maybe? Could that be skewing things in favor of “red” states???

#### brycejones

##### Lifer
There is something seriously flawed with this report: https://wallethub.com/edu/safest-states-during-covid/86567

According to this WalletHub study, South Dakota was the safest state during COVID. The same South Dakota that had Kristi Noem as governor. The same South Dakota that held super spreader events known as Sturgis in 2020/2021 with zero mask mandates/social distancing measures (leading to increased infections in neighboring states.) The same South Dakota that, incidentally, ranks 3rd in “Highest levels of community transmission” in this same study (probably mislabeled graph but belies the point about how dumb this study is.)

Looking at the Death Rate vs. Vax Rate ranking, NC should clearly be #1.

The study then claims that red states were safer than blue states during COVID. O RLY??? We know that death rates were high during the early waves of COVID which happened on the coasts (Washington, California, NY and NJ.) Death rates are triple weighted, while hospitalization rates or only 1x weight. But early lockdowns in those states helped slow the spread to others.

Looking at methodology, I’m not sure they even bothered doing rankings on a per capita basis, which is kinda dumb when you’re talking about an airborne infectious disease and the outsized impact it would have given population density.

Finally, they labeled NC as a “red state” given election results, nevermind that we had a Blue governor and HHS secretary considered for that cabinet post in the Biden administration, and all the policies and mask mandates to go along with it. Might have something to do with vax rates and infections maybe? Could that be skewing things in favor of “red” states???
wallethub.com isn't where I would go for health policy and outcome reporting

UNCjigga

#### blackangst1

##### Lifer
Hypothetical for you. In a 100% vaccinated population with a vaccine that is 99.99% effective at preventing death what percentage of the people who do die are vaccinated?

If the disease is fatal to 1% of the unvaccinated would you take that vaccine?
I wouldnt.

#### dullard

##### Elite Member
Hypothetical for you...would you take that vaccine?
In the case of covid? Yes. Iver never been anti-covid vaccine.
I wouldnt.
How do we know which Blackangst1 is posting on any given day? My head is spinning trying to comprehend both of those Blackangst1 posts.

Paratus

#### Paratus

##### Lifer
I wouldnt.
So you would risk a 1 in 100 chance of dying rather than take a needle for a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying?

People do struggle with risk and math I guess.

#### Paratus

##### Lifer
How do we know which Blackangst1 is posting on any given day? My head is spinning trying to comprehend both of those Blackangst1 posts.
Ain’t that the truth.