Have you been duped by the public education system?

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Riprorin
socialism, a political and economic philosophy that commonly emphasizes government control and redistribution of wealth over personal responsibility and private ownership, often goes hand in hand with secularist attitudes and a generally non-biblical worldview.

We should eliminate the Department of Education and close down all public schools. There is a massive amount of bureaucratic waste in the public school education. Privatize them all and the costs will go down while the quality will increase. And further, we need to get very tough on juvenile delinquents so they do not disrupt the lives of those who seek to learn.

My parents sent me to Catholic school my whole life and the costs were actually less than what the State spent on each pupil, yet the education was tremendously better. It is also unfair that they had to pay taxes to fund other family's children's public school education.

Public school is nothing more than a government-run bureaucracy and liberal social-experiment. Witness all of the "new math" and "timmy has 2 mommies, sandy has 2 daddies" crap that is taught there. All public school does is churn out mindless drones indoctrinated to believe they are helpless and require government assistance in order to live their lives.

haha i wish you were born as elijah jackson from Warren, MI. Your parents gross income is 35G and you have two other siblings. That leaves you with the choice of "wallmart highschool" and "dollar store academy" for your education. Have fun making it in life.

I love how all these self-righeous elitists claim public education is useless and how well they did in their private school etc. etc. IT WAS YOUR PARENTS MONEY that allowed you to be in that evironment. Your entire argument is based on the luck you had to be born in a wealthy family. It has nothing to do with your merits, intellect or determination. It's a lot different if you come from a family that can barely make bills from month to month.

The purpose of education is not to allow the wealthy to succeed. It's give everyone the same opportunity to make it in life. Our household income exceeds 200K, but should NOT give me edge of a kid whos parents make 40k

The inner city parochial school I send my kids to costs about $4K/yr. I believe that the cost of my suburban neighboorhood public school is about twice that.

Even though the inner city parochial school draws from a much broader demographic, the standardized test results are much higher. Plus, it reinforces the values I teach at home.

 

[BarneyFife]

I have relatives in Warren that went to college and became engineers and are doing just fine. Whats so bad about Warren? Its a middle class neighborhood in Macomb County. Homes there cost $175k and up.

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: yllus
Religion teachings are traditionally the responsibility of the parent - school them yourself in the Bible, send them to afterschool classes, whatever.

Unfortunately, that is not the case here in America. Instead of letting the teachers, parents, and children decide for themselves, all references to "God" are removed and/or banned even when in a historical context, and instead replaced with such "educational" topics as homosexuality - something that the vast majority of America abhors and would not want their children exposed to.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Riprorin
socialism, a political and economic philosophy that commonly emphasizes government control and redistribution of wealth over personal responsibility and private ownership, often goes hand in hand with secularist attitudes and a generally non-biblical worldview.

We should eliminate the Department of Education and close down all public schools. There is a massive amount of bureaucratic waste in the public school education. Privatize them all and the costs will go down while the quality will increase. And further, we need to get very tough on juvenile delinquents so they do not disrupt the lives of those who seek to learn.

My parents sent me to Catholic school my whole life and the costs were actually less than what the State spent on each pupil, yet the education was tremendously better. It is also unfair that they had to pay taxes to fund other family's children's public school education.

Public school is nothing more than a government-run bureaucracy and liberal social-experiment. Witness all of the "new math" and "timmy has 2 mommies, sandy has 2 daddies" crap that is taught there. All public school does is churn out mindless drones indoctrinated to believe they are helpless and require government assistance in order to live their lives.

haha i wish you were born as elijah jackson from Warren, MI. Your parents gross income is 35G and you have two other siblings. That leaves you with the choice of "wallmart highschool" and "dollar store academy" for your education. Have fun making it in life.

I love how all these self-righeous elitists claim public education is useless and how well they did in their private school etc. etc. IT WAS YOUR PARENTS MONEY that allowed you to be in that evironment. Your entire argument is based on the luck you had to be born in a wealthy family. It has nothing to do with your merits, intellect or determination. It's a lot different if you come from a family that can barely make bills from month to month.

The purpose of education is not to allow the wealthy to succeed. It's give everyone the same opportunity to make it in life. Our household income exceeds 200K, but should NOT give me edge of a kid whos parents make 40k

The inner city parochial school I send my kids to costs about $4K/yr. I believe that the cost of my suburban neighboorhood public school is about twice that.

Even though the inner city parochial school draws from a much broader demographic, the standardized test results are much higher. Plus, it reinforces the values I teach at home.

interesting,
do you have any linkies for the test score results? I never heard that before. I have no problem with the gov't giving money to religion based schools (with somewhat standard curriculum at least) , the problem arises when public schools are injected with the religious material.

It's common practive in europe to have religion classes after school (christian at least) for kids that want to do participate. There's never been a problem in terms of using the public school property or anything.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
I have relatives in Warren that went to college and became engineers and are doing just fine. Whats so bad about Warren? Its a middle class neighborhood in Macomb County. Homes there cost $175k and up.

hmm where exactly in warren are they?
Last time i went to warren, it was pretty ghetto. There were some ok subdivison, but definitely not middle class and definitely not 175K (i'd guess around 100K single level houses sub 1000 sq/ft)

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: halik
I love how all these self-righeous elitists claim public education is useless and how well they did in their private school etc. etc. IT WAS YOUR PARENTS MONEY that allowed you to be in that evironment. Your entire argument is based on the luck you had to be born in a wealthy family. It has nothing to do with your merits, intellect or determination. It's a lot different if you come from a family that can barely make bills from month to month.

The point is that when government gets involved in anything, there is a tremendous amount of bureaucratic waste and a blanket "standard" that everyone has to accept. If education were to be privatized, each school would be competing with each other for students. It would force each school to provide a high quality education or else they will fail. Look at the business world - we have very cheap computer parts because many different companies are competing with each other.

Why is it that all of you so quickly look to government solutions for all of your problems? (It must be your public school indoctrination. 😀) The private sector can do a much better job.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: yllus
Religion teachings are traditionally the responsibility of the parent - school them yourself in the Bible, send them to afterschool classes, whatever.

Unfortunately, that is not the case here in America. Instead of letting the teachers, parents, and children decide for themselves, all references to "God" are removed and/or banned even when in a historical context, and instead replaced with such "educational" topics as homosexuality - something that the vast majority of America abhors and would not want their children exposed to.

What historical references to God should exist in public schools?

In high schools (maybe junior high) I support some simple education on what homosexuality is. Amazingly, learning about what homosexuality is does not make you into one. The only way to fight ignorance is expose people to what they, frankly, irrationally hate. Gays aren't going to simply go away, so we might as well inform kids that they exist and live with us.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: halik
I love how all these self-righeous elitists claim public education is useless and how well they did in their private school etc. etc. IT WAS YOUR PARENTS MONEY that allowed you to be in that evironment. Your entire argument is based on the luck you had to be born in a wealthy family. It has nothing to do with your merits, intellect or determination. It's a lot different if you come from a family that can barely make bills from month to month.

The point is that when government gets involved in anything, there is a tremendous amount of bureaucratic waste and a blanket "standard" that everyone has to accept. If education were to be privatized, each school would be competing with each other for students. It would force each school to provide a high quality education or else they will fail. Look at the business world - we have very cheap computer parts because many different companies are competing with each other.

Why is it that all of you so quickly look to government solutions for all of your problems? (It must be your public school indoctrination. 😀) The private sector can do a much better job.

I guess those who can't afford it simply get to stay home and learn to steal.

 

[rickn]

I got a very good public education. Personally, I think public schools turn out more well-rounded people.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
He is the developer of what is called the "PEERS test," a tool to assess the worldviews of young people, and says the majority of public school students from evangelical Christian homes consistently score in the "socialist" category on the test.

Bwahahaha... are you serious? :laugh:

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: Engineer
I guess those who can't afford it simply get to stay home and learn to steal.

Have you ever wondered how anyone at all every learned before we have public school? That is the original home-schooling. Government is not the answer - the private sector is.

 

[BarneyFife]

Why does Riprorin think his school is so much better? Religious schools are usually the cheapest and most broke schools in terms of money. They pay the teachers little and basically have to beg people for money holding bingo nights and various other fundraising activities. In terms of quality, public schools are much better than religious schools. Teachers have more credentials and students have more variety in terms of activities and academics. Your kids are going to be so screwed in college when they finally face reality at the age of 18.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
I have relatives in Warren that went to college and became engineers and are doing just fine. Whats so bad about Warren? Its a middle class neighborhood in Macomb County. Homes there cost $175k and up.

hmm where exactly in warren are they?
Last time i went to warren, it was pretty ghetto. There were some ok subdivison, but definitely not middle class and definitely not 175K (i'd guess around 100K single level houses sub 1000 sq/ft)

Between 8-10 mil is pretty ghetto because it borders Detroit but when you cross 696 the neighborhoods are pretty good.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
According to Smithwick, this outcome should come as no surprise, considering the fact that secular humanists are currently shaping America. He notes that socialism, a political and economic philosophy that commonly emphasizes government control and redistribution of wealth over personal responsibility and private ownership, often goes hand in hand with secularist attitudes and a generally non-biblical worldview.

This one's even funnier than the last. :laugh::laugh:

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Engineer
I guess those who can't afford it simply get to stay home and learn to steal.

Have you ever wondered how anyone at all every learned before we have public school? That is the original home-schooling. Government is not the answer - the private sector is.

Yeah I remember that. Nobody could read and everyone dropped out at 13 to work on the farm. Didn't George Bush send his girls to public school? The only fools out there are the ones that spend thousands each year to send their kids to private school when public schools are superior.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Engineer
I guess those who can't afford it simply get to stay home and learn to steal.

Have you ever wondered how anyone at all every learned before we have public school? That is the original home-schooling. Government is not the answer - the private sector is.

Home schooling? OK. fine. How do those people eat since they are busy home schooling and can't work?

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Riprorin
socialism, a political and economic philosophy that commonly emphasizes government control and redistribution of wealth over personal responsibility and private ownership, often goes hand in hand with secularist attitudes and a generally non-biblical worldview.

We should eliminate the Department of Education and close down all public schools. There is a massive amount of bureaucratic waste in the public school education. Privatize them all and the costs will go down while the quality will increase. And further, we need to get very tough on juvenile delinquents so they do not disrupt the lives of those who seek to learn.

My parents sent me to Catholic school my whole life and the costs were actually less than what the State spent on each pupil, yet the education was tremendously better. It is also unfair that they had to pay taxes to fund other family's children's public school education.

Public school is nothing more than a government-run bureaucracy and liberal social-experiment. Witness all of the "new math" and "timmy has 2 mommies, sandy has 2 daddies" crap that is taught there. All public school does is churn out mindless drones indoctrinated to believe they are helpless and require government assistance in order to live their lives.

haha i wish you were born as elijah jackson from Warren, MI. Your parents gross income is 35G and you have two other siblings. That leaves you with the choice of "wallmart highschool" and "dollar store academy" for your education. Have fun making it in life.

I love how all these self-righeous elitists claim public education is useless and how well they did in their private school etc. etc. IT WAS YOUR PARENTS MONEY that allowed you to be in that evironment. Your entire argument is based on the luck you had to be born in a wealthy family. It has nothing to do with your merits, intellect or determination. It's a lot different if you come from a family that can barely make bills from month to month.

The purpose of education is not to allow the wealthy to succeed. It's give everyone the same opportunity to make it in life. Our household income exceeds 200K, but should NOT give me edge of a kid whos parents make 40k

The inner city parochial school I send my kids to costs about $4K/yr. I believe that the cost of my suburban neighboorhood public school is about twice that.

Even though the inner city parochial school draws from a much broader demographic, the standardized test results are much higher. Plus, it reinforces the values I teach at home.

interesting,
do you have any linkies for the test score results? I never heard that before. I have no problem with the gov't giving money to religion based schools (with somewhat standard curriculum at least) , the problem arises when public schools are injected with the religious material.

It's common practive in europe to have religion classes after school (christian at least) for kids that want to do participate. There's never been a problem in terms of using the public school property or anything.

I'll have to dig it up. It's really a pain to do the comparisons because NYS does not put the results for private/parochial schools up on its website. You have to call and have them send you the results.

From my research, the best elemetary schools, score wise, are parochial schools in affluent suburban schools. Parochial schools in the city or less affluent suburbs are generally comparable to the public schools in affluent suburbs. The worst schools are public schools in the inner city.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: halik
I love how all these self-righeous elitists claim public education is useless and how well they did in their private school etc. etc. IT WAS YOUR PARENTS MONEY that allowed you to be in that evironment. Your entire argument is based on the luck you had to be born in a wealthy family. It has nothing to do with your merits, intellect or determination. It's a lot different if you come from a family that can barely make bills from month to month.

The point is that when government gets involved in anything, there is a tremendous amount of bureaucratic waste and a blanket "standard" that everyone has to accept. If education were to be privatized, each school would be competing with each other for students. It would force each school to provide a high quality education or else they will fail. Look at the business world - we have very cheap computer parts because many different companies are competing with each other.

Why is it that all of you so quickly look to government solutions for all of your problems? (It must be your public school indoctrination. 😀) The private sector can do a much better job.

It would produce higher quality education, but at higher cost. It's simple supply and demand:
say in your district theres a good school and a bad school.
Obviously there will be higher demand in the good school and therefore the price in the good school will rise. Conversely the low demand in the bad school will force the price to be cut.

Now if you have two kinds families one with 200K income and one with 25K income, you'll arrive at an equilibrium where the the rich kids go to the good schools because they can afford it and the poor kids go to bad schools because they cant afford the good shools high prices due to the high demand.

So at the end you'll end up with S-D driven market thats segregated according to family income (the same level schools will compete against each other, but not against different level schools).

To put it in your computer parts analogy:
the rich kids will be able to afford radeon x800 versus the poor kids that can only afford radeon x300SE 🙂

<- getting BS in economics next year 😀

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: yllus
What historical references to God should exist in public schools?

For one, the founding of our nation. It was reported on the Drudge Report that one school in Kalifornia banned the Declaration of Independence because it contained a religious reference!

Originally posted by: yllus
In high schools (maybe junior high) I support some simple education on what homosexuality is.

Sure, that's not a problem. What is a problem is when schools teach that homosexuality is normal and acceptable. Leave that to the parents to decide.

 

[BarneyFife]

You know why they are the "worst schools"? Because a lot of kids in the inner city have no father in their life and their mother is scavenging for money. The reason why affleunt schools have better scores is because of a better family system at home. It has NOTHING to do with the schools. The books are the same and they teach you the same thing.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
You know why they are the "worst schools"? Because a lot of kids in the inner city have no father in their life and their mother is scavenging for money. The reason why affleunt schools have better scores is because of a better family system at home. It has NOTHING to do with the schools. The books are the same and they teach you the same thing.

A lot of parents in aflluent suburban areas are too preoccupied with their careers/activies to give a darn about their kids.

Growing up in a wealthy, suburban area is no guarantee of success.

 

[HalosPuma]

Originally posted by: halik
It would produce higher quality education, but at higher cost. It's simple supply and demand:
say in your district theres a good school and a bad school.
Obviously there will be higher demand in the good school and therefore the price in the good school will rise. Conversely the low demand in the bad school will force the price to be cut.

To put it in your computer parts analogy:
the rich kids will be able to afford radeon x800 versus the poor kids that can only afford radeon x300SE 🙂

Actually, I bought the BFG6800 Ultra. 😀

But you are forgetting there is a market out there. As long as a profit can be made, there will be good quality schools for the lower-income families. To go back to the video card reference - ATI and NVidia make good quality average- and even low-end cards because there is a demand for them.

Now, the more successful families will send their kids to schools that have more bells and whistles, but tell me this - did someone with only a mid- or low-end video card not enjoy Half-Life 2 or Doom, or were they required to use the most expensive card for their enjoyment? Those kids will still get a good education to get them started in life, but, yes, they will be missing some extras that the successful families are able to provide for their children. Such is life.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: yllus
What historical references to God should exist in public schools?

For one, the founding of our nation. It was reported on the Drudge Report that one school in Kalifornia banned the Declaration of Independence because it contained a religious reference!

One school in the nation's most ridiculously liberal state does not characterize the entire public school system.

Originally posted by: yllus
In high schools (maybe junior high) I support some simple education on what homosexuality is.

Sure, that's not a problem. What is a problem is when schools teach that homosexuality is normal and acceptable. Leave that to the parents to decide.

There is no choice but to teach homosexuality as acceptable. If you're teaching otherwise, you're teaching teenagers that their friends, classmates, people they will meet in their daily lives are not 'acceptable'. You may morally disagree with their sexuality, but one must accept that homosexuals are around us and should be dealt with normally, not to be shunned or abhored. You just don't have to become best friends with one or do much more than partake in more than polite small talk.

 

[rickn]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: Engineer
I guess those who can't afford it simply get to stay home and learn to steal.

Have you ever wondered how anyone at all every learned before we have public school? That is the original home-schooling. Government is not the answer - the private sector is.

Home schooling? OK. fine. How do those people eat since they are busy home schooling and can't work?

for a family that has a father than can support them, home schooling can work. I support home schooling for slow learners, and kids that may have behaviour problems. But, what I question about home schooling is the lack of interaction with peers. Interacting with other kids helps to mold us. I wonder what percentage of home schooled children end up being social misfits.

 

[ECUHITMAN]

Originally posted by: HalosPuma

Originally posted by: halik
I love how all these self-righeous elitists claim public education is useless and how well they did in their private school etc. etc. IT WAS YOUR PARENTS MONEY that allowed you to be in that evironment. Your entire argument is based on the luck you had to be born in a wealthy family. It has nothing to do with your merits, intellect or determination. It's a lot different if you come from a family that can barely make bills from month to month.

The point is that when government gets involved in anything, there is a tremendous amount of bureaucratic waste and a blanket "standard" that everyone has to accept. If education were to be privatized, each school would be competing with each other for students. It would force each school to provide a high quality education or else they will fail. Look at the business world - we have very cheap computer parts because many different companies are competing with each other.

Why is it that all of you so quickly look to government solutions for all of your problems? (It must be your public school indoctrination. 😀) The private sector can do a much better job.

Ok I get that you do not want any government (for anything other than defense) but to say the private sector can do it better is a joke. What is your basis for saying that? A company is in business to make money; education does not generate money for anyone. How would you pay for this? What about poor people? Should they not be allowed to go to school? And if they don?t have to pay, who would pay for them?

As for schools competing for students, what if there is only 1 school in that town? That would make it a monopoly and they could teach or not teach them anything they want, yeah that would work.