Haswell-E product line-up?

[Makaveli]

A lot of PC enthusiasts who can afford higher priced CPUs skip the extreme version and go for the 2nd fastest option. Why pay $1K for i7-4960X when $550 i7-4930K overclocks more or less the same and the extra 3MB of cache doesn't really help the i7-4960X?

What I think Intel will do to entice the consumers you are currently buying the $550 6-cores to buy that $1K level CPU. They can do that by making it an 8-core part. This way many more people will jump on the 8-core Extreme Edition for bragging rights!

Also, if they price Devil's Canyon much higher than $330, it will make that $550 6-core HW-E suddenly look a lot more attractive to those who aren't only after single-threaded performance. All of a sudden, Devil's Canyon will target overclockers/gamers specifically, 6-core for productivity and 8-core for the ultimate workstation without having to spend a lot more on Xeons.

I found this hilarious from TP's review of the i7 4960X:

"In fact, let me give you Blanda's big list of reasons to build an X79-based system and the percentage of people who fit each one:

Need more cores, cache, and memory bandwidth for a real application. (2%)
Need higher memory capacity for actual workloads. (4%)
Need more PCIe lanes for multi-GPU configs. (1%)
Thinks you need more PCIe lanes for multi-GPU configs. (12%)
Need more knobs for extreme overclocking. (5%)
Bragging rights, money > sense. (51%)
Clicked the wrong button on Falcon Northwest online store. (27%)"

lmao I remember that article and that part still makes me laugh so true!

 

[moonbogg]

I believe I am suffering from a mental illness called "moarcoreitis". If Devil's canyon clocks really high, that would be a good gaming upgrade but those BF4 benchmark slides are stuck in my head, making me think that 6 cores should be the new standard for games moving forward with 8 cores giving even more performance.
BF4 seems to use 8 cores pretty well. It does well with a hex core because there is HT that picks up the slack. If you had 8 true cores, it might run even better. So, someone cure me of this moarcoreitis please as it is a nasty and unpleasant illness that results in rapid loss of money.

 

[Grooveriding]

Extreme/enthusiast setup is a good buy on release day with a new platform. Coming in mid-term, in this case IV-E, is not a good idea imo.

I agree with Russian's guess and also expect the 8 core to be only in the 5960X moniker and cost $999. So 6 core for $550 and 8 core for $1000 with some extra cache is what I think we'll see.

Will be the first time I get the X version. It just never had much going for it before and now with an eight core coming to the desktop enthusiast line, it makes perfect sense to use it to get more buyers to jump on the top part.

 

[tbris84]

Extreme/enthusiast setup is a good buy on release day with a new platform. Coming in mid-term, in this case IV-E, is not a good idea imo.

I agree with Russian's guess and also expect the 8 core to be only in the 5960X moniker and cost $999. So 6 core for $550 and 8 core for $1000 with some extra cache is what I think we'll see.

Will be the first time I get the X version. It just never had much going for it before and now with an eight core coming to the desktop enthusiast line, it makes perfect sense to use it to get more buyers to jump on the top part.

While that's a fair assumption, you're leaving out the third chip. The only facts we have right now (that I'm aware of) are:
- The entry level "5820K" is going to be a 6c chip.
- The high-end "5960X" is going to be an 8c chip.

If the entry/5820K is going to be $550 and the 5960X is going to be $999, where would the 5930K fit in? $750? I doubt it, I wouldn't hesitate to drop another $200 for an additional 2cores. And that $249 difference also wouldn't be enough of a premium between the 5930K and the 5960X.

I would be fine with slapping an additional $100 on each chip over the the outgoing IB-E's. $425/680/1099.

 

[rtsurfer]

While that's a fair assumption, you're leaving out the third chip. The only facts we have right now (that I'm aware of) are:
- The entry level "5820K" is going to be a 6c chip.
- The high-end "5960X" is going to be an 8c chip.

If the entry/5820K is going to be $550 and the 5960X is going to be $999, where would the 5930K fit in? $750? I doubt it, I wouldn't hesitate to drop another $200 for an additional 2cores. And that $249 difference also wouldn't be enough of a premium between the 5930K and the 5960X.

I would be fine with slapping an additional $100 on each chip over the the outgoing IB-E's. $425/680/1099.

Maybe they will just cancel the more Cache chip.
There is hardly anyone who benifits from it anyway.

 

[frozentundra123456]

While that's a fair assumption, you're leaving out the third chip. The only facts we have right now (that I'm aware of) are:
- The entry level "5820K" is going to be a 6c chip.
- The high-end "5960X" is going to be an 8c chip.

If the entry/5820K is going to be $550 and the 5960X is going to be $999, where would the 5930K fit in? $750? I doubt it, I wouldn't hesitate to drop another $200 for an additional 2cores. And that $249 difference also wouldn't be enough of a premium between the 5930K and the 5960X.

I would be fine with slapping an additional $100 on each chip over the the outgoing IB-E's. $425/680/1099.

Who says there has to be a third chip? The 3930k and 3960X never made sense to me. And actially, neither did the quad core E chip. Double the price for a few more mghz and more cache? Seriously? And the quad chip was essentially identical in performance to the mainstream hyperthreaded quad.

Would make sense to me to drop the lowest E part, especially if DC truly has a 4ghz base clock and overclocks well. Then just have a 500 dollar hex core and a 1000 dollar 8 core extreme edition that would really differentiate itself from the six core.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Seems like Intel will force gaming enthusiasts to Haswell-E, since Broadwell will not have PCIe v3:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/computex-will-show-desktop-alive-well/77282.html

"Why is the focus on these CPUs important if you want the discrete GPU? Because, yes, it is also very likely that, after the Haswell refresh runs its course, the Broadwell round of 4-core mainstream desktop CPUs early next year may only have PCIe v.2, not v.3 enabled. Yes, you may call Intel “real bad”, but basically they want to entice you to use the “Iris Pro” GT3e graphics that Broadwell mainstream desktops will have on top four-core SKUs, and pay a bit more for Haswell-E and Broadwell-E higher-end platforms if you want to use – non-Intel, of course – discrete GPUs. Such is life."

 

[Makaveli]

Seems like Intel will force gaming enthusiasts to Haswell-E, since Broadwell will not have PCIe v3:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/computex-will-show-desktop-alive-well/77282.html

"Why is the focus on these CPUs important if you want the discrete GPU? Because, yes, it is also very likely that, after the Haswell refresh runs its course, the Broadwell round of 4-core mainstream desktop CPUs early next year may only have PCIe v.2, not v.3 enabled. Yes, you may call Intel “real bad”, but basically they want to entice you to use the “Iris Pro” GT3e graphics that Broadwell mainstream desktops will have on top four-core SKUs, and pay a bit more for Haswell-E and Broadwell-E higher-end platforms if you want to use – non-Intel, of course – discrete GPUs. Such is life."

Hmm this is interesting will have to see how this pans out.

 

[AtenRa]

If that is true it will change the High-End Gaming Desktop CPU landscape.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Seems like Intel will force gaming enthusiasts to Haswell-E, since Broadwell will not have PCIe v3:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/computex-will-show-desktop-alive-well/77282.html

"Why is the focus on these CPUs important if you want the discrete GPU? Because, yes, it is also very likely that, after the Haswell refresh runs its course, the Broadwell round of 4-core mainstream desktop CPUs early next year may only have PCIe v.2, not v.3 enabled. Yes, you may call Intel “real bad”, but basically they want to entice you to use the “Iris Pro” GT3e graphics that Broadwell mainstream desktops will have on top four-core SKUs, and pay a bit more for Haswell-E and Broadwell-E higher-end platforms if you want to use – non-Intel, of course – discrete GPUs. Such is life."

I read that section of the article, is there a source saying that specifically, or is that speculation on the author's part? It seems like it's unfounded speculation. :hmm:

 

[ShintaiDK]

Broadwell will have PCie 3.0. Thats the dumbest article ever. The PCH PCIe will like Haswell be PCIe 2.0. But the x16 from the CPU is PCIe 3.0.

Gotta love the comspiracy crowd mixed with the hater crowd.

 

[Essence_of_War]

That just seemed like a completely bizarre thing to say without a source or any evidence. It would be like someone suggesting Broadwell will be using DDR2 to drive up end-user demand for the higher performing cache...

 

[frozentundra123456]

Seems like the whole article is a lot of speculation. Is there even supposed to be a mainstream desktop LGA broadwell? I thought that was what Haswell refresh was for. There may be an unlocked broadwell K, but I dont think anyone knows details yet. In any case, as far as the top end desktop gaming market is concerned, Haswell refresh and especially Devil's Canyon if the rumors of 4 ghz base and good overclockability are true, will still dominate anything AMD is bringing to the table.

 

[Fjodor2001]

http://fudzilla.com/home/item/34711-intel-9-series-chipset-is-official

Says PCI Express 2.0 for 9 series chipset. Is there any info elsewhere indicating PCI Express 3.0?

 

[beginner99]

Says PCI Express 2.0 for 9 series chipset. Is there any info elsewhere indicating PCI Express 3.0?

Its' missing because PCIe 3 comes directly from CPU and not from chipset. That was mentioned like 2 post before yours...

 

[Essence_of_War]

Its' missing because PCIe 3 comes directly from CPU and not from chipset. That was mentioned like 2 post before yours...

*facepalm* OK, well that explains a lot. So it was wild, incoherent speculation on the part of the VR-zone author.

 

[blackened23]

Broadwell will have PCie 3.0. Thats the dumbest article ever. The PCH PCIe will like Haswell be PCIe 2.0. But the x16 from the CPU is PCIe 3.0.

Gotta love the comspiracy crowd mixed with the hater crowd.

Spot on, everything you stated. Conspiracy crowd won't stop doing their thing though . It will be PCIE 3.0.

 

[Homeles]

Seems like Intel will force gaming enthusiasts to Haswell-E, since Broadwell will not have PCIe v3:

Right, because even if this were true, gamers would have a real hard time on PCIe 2.0.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Its' missing because PCIe 3 comes directly from CPU and not from chipset. That was mentioned like 2 post before yours...

Yes, mentioned but without any source. Lots of stuff is "mentioned" in threads on this forum, but that does not automatically make what is mentioned true.

I'm not saying it definitely is incorrect, but does anybody have a source saying that the mainstream Broadwell CPUs will have PCIe 3.0?

 

[BrightCandle]

PCI 2.0 on the CPU - laughing my ass off. No chance, 0%, not going to happen.

 

[blackened23]

Yes, mentioned but without any source. Lots of stuff is "mentioned" in threads on this forum, but that does not automatically make what is mentioned true.

I'm not saying it definitely is incorrect, but does anybody have a source saying that the mainstream Broadwell CPUs will have PCIe 3.0?

Yeah, we're totally going backwards here dude. Since Ivy and Haswell had PCIE 3.0 on the CPU, they're going to make Broadwell PCIE 2.0.

That sounds completely logical. This isn't done on a chipset level, as others have mentioned. Broadwell like CPUs before it will have PCIE 3.0 on the CPU. Your throwing this out there seems almost intentionally misleading - CPU pcie lanes have been PCIE 3.0 for some time, which obviously includes IVB and Haswell. Broadwell will also have 3.0 pcie cpu lanes.

 

[Topweasel]

Who says there has to be a third chip? The 3930k and 3960X never made sense to me. And actially, neither did the quad core E chip. Double the price for a few more mghz and more cache? Seriously? And the quad chip was essentially identical in performance to the mainstream hyperthreaded quad.

Would make sense to me to drop the lowest E part, especially if DC truly has a 4ghz base clock and overclocks well. Then just have a 500 dollar hex core and a 1000 dollar 8 core extreme edition that would really differentiate itself from the six core.

Exactly why have a 2x HW, DC, CPU at only a 50% increase in price. At least with the SBE and IBE the options were only 50% moar cores. In the end electronics tend to exponentially grow in price with more options. So really I could see Intel having a 5960x for 1300, 5930k for 1k, and then a 6 core 5820 at $550-600. They wouldn't feel bad about charging over 2x for the 5930 over the 5770k because they are offering 2x the cores.

Also I agree with the belief in expensive DDR4. DDR was probably the only major memory shift to not be super expensive at first, but it was A.) competing against Rambus and most Mem companies wanted it to die quick. B.) It was shared with Video cards, GDDR didn't come out till later and the first couple Geforce cards used standard DDR. C.) Because it was shared with video cards at the time manufacturing had already been ramping up production. DDR4 will start high, but not a lot more. Companies have been keeping DDR3 inflated by 2.5x since the flood several years back. I got 4x8GB sticks of Geil Sniper 1600 for $110 for my X79 setup. Building a small ITX system I just ordered 2x8GB 1600 Ballistic Sports for $130 and the Snipers were selling for almost $170. Half as much for almost 50% more.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

http://fudzilla.com/home/item/34711-intel-9-series-chipset-is-official

Says PCI Express 2.0 for 9 series chipset. Is there any info elsewhere indicating PCI Express 3.0?

PCI-e 3.0 lanes are supplied directly from the CPU

http://ark.intel.com/compare/65520,77779,75123

there's a comparison of the i5 3570K, the i7 4960X, and the i7 4770K

if you look down under "Expansion Options" you'll see how they're all listed with "PCI Express Revision" as 3.0. Where they differ is that the mainstream chips have 16 lanes, while the HEDT chips have 40 lanes.

The chipsets are merely offering additional PCI-e 2.0 lanes

 

[ShintaiDK]

Another reference. Haswell with the now infamous PCIe 2.0 as well. So lets not keep fueling the ignorance.

Another for Haswell Refresh, should anyone still be in doubt:

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah, we're totally going backwards here dude. Since Ivy and Haswell had PCIE 3.0 on the CPU, they're going to make Broadwell PCIE 2.0.

That sounds completely logical. This isn't done on a chipset level, as others have mentioned. Broadwell like CPUs before it will have PCIE 3.0 on the CPU. Your throwing this out there seems almost intentionally misleading - CPU pcie lanes have been PCIE 3.0 for some time, which obviously includes IVB and Haswell. Broadwell will also have 3.0 pcie cpu lanes.

But PCI-E 2.0 saves power!