Haswell-E product line-up?

[Magic Carpet]

Have we already got the names for the upcoming haswell extreme processors, or is it still work in progress, or under NDA or something? Considering we're like 5-6 months away... we should have more information up.

 

[SexyK]

I assume that the naming will follow the pattern of the enthusiast platforms to date, but I don't believe there has been confirmation of that.

That being said, are we really still looking at 5-6 months until the platform launches? For some reason I was expecting to see something in the August/September time frame. Maybe just wishful thinking. Definitely itching to upgrade and nothing out there right now really seems worthwhile coming from an X79 setup.

 

[blackened23]

It's Haswell. With 8 cores. It's not out yet. There aren't going to be any surprises, just like there were no surprises with Ivy-E. It was Ivy-E IPC with more cores. It will priced the same as current HEDT CPUs.

Oh, there's DDR-4 which is way too expensive right now. I'm pretty sure many will fore-go HEDT simply because make no mistake, DDR4 prices are absolutely stupid for no performance gain over DDR3. DDR4 will be faster 1-2 years from now and more reasonably priced, but having seen many DRAM launches over the years.....it will not perform better at first (due to low clockspeeds) and will be massively overpriced. And the first iterations to market of DDR4 will have very low clockspeeds, but in a year or two they will slowly improve to be better than DDR3. But yeah. At launch? DDR4 will be worthless and overpriced.

That's the main detriment I see to Haswell-E. But of course some don't really care about the cost of the platform and will get it anyway. The RAM portion of that platform will cost way, way more than it does with current platforms. But when someone plunks down 600-1000$ on a CPU because they want the best, it's a non issue really. If you want to nickel and dime you'd get the mainstream Devil's Canyon platform. (even though I suspect that people who would never buy anyway will whine nonetheless about the price).

Aside from that. The CPU itself. You're asking a strange question. We already know the IPC of Haswell. Add more cores. Same price. What more is there to know, really. There won't be any surprises that I can think of.

 

[Fjodor2001]

It will priced the same as current HEDT CPUs.

The thing though is that there are no 8 core Intel HEDT CPUs available currently. So the pricing is not obvious. I too wonder what price we can expect for the 6 vs 8 core Haswell-E CPUs.

 

[BrightCandle]

I am kind of hoping they just slot it in where the 3930k and 4930k were. If not then its going to be overpriced.

 

[blackened23]

The thing though is that there are no 8 core Intel HEDT CPUs available currently. So the pricing is not obvious. I too wonder what price we can expect for the 6 vs 8 core Haswell-E CPUs.

I have to double check, but i'm pretty certain that intel had some type of roadmap in the past indicating similar price levels to their prior HEDT platforms. I'm not sure though. Anything can change.

Even if the CPU is 20$ more expensive, or 50$ more expensive, this is a non concern with the bigger problem. DDR4 cost. DDR4 will literally cost 3-4 times more than DDR3. Whatever 16-32GB of DDR3 costs now? Well, plan on paying triple that for DDR4 if you're an early adopter.

If you want to get screwed on price, Haswell E may cost more (who knows) but that will be minimal compared to the screwing you will get with DDR4 cost. I'd personally wait a year before buying a DDR4 platform, having seen many DRAM launches in the past. Without exception every DRAM launch was underpowered and overpriced. Every. Single. One. That will auto correct in a year or two, but like I said. Prepare to get screwed if you're an early adopter.

 

[escrow4]

Problem I have with X79 or X99 is it isn't frequently updated. We had the 3930K and now the 4930K, in the meantime we up are to the Haswell refresh and likely Broadwell by the time X99 launches. Its a stagnant option. By the time X99 is updated I'd bet we'd be past Skylake and another couple of architectures later. The 4770K stock is already close behind the 3930K unless something heavily multithreaded pulls it away, purely down to architecture and IPC improvements.

I'd personally rather pay $300 or $400 every 2-3yrs then a $1K for a CPU that will be outclassed sooner rather than later.

 

[Skurge]

I have to double check, but i'm pretty certain that intel had some type of roadmap in the past indicating similar price levels to their prior HEDT platforms. I'm not sure though. Anything can change.

Even if the CPU is 20$ more expensive, or 50$ more expensive, this is a non concern with the bigger problem. DDR4 cost. DDR4 will literally cost 3-4 times more than DDR3. Whatever 16-32GB of DDR3 costs now? Well, plan on paying triple that for DDR4 if you're an early adopter.

If you want to get screwed on price, Haswell E may cost more (who knows) but that will be minimal compared to the screwing you will get with DDR4 cost. I'd personally wait a year before buying a DDR4 platform, having seen many DRAM launches in the past. Without exception every DRAM launch was underpowered and overpriced. Every. Single. One. That will auto correct in a year or two, but like I said. Prepare to get screwed if you're an early adopter.

Really? Only 3-4x

It's 10x the cost here.

 

[BrightCandle]

If they keep falling behind with these enthusiast chips they will have to skip a generation at some point soon to catch up.

 

[Fjodor2001]

According to this article DDR4 RAM will not be that more expensive than DDR3 in 2014Q3/Q4:

Also, would anyone care to estimate what the 8 core Haswell-E will cost? At around $500 I'd be tempted. Then Intel would still charge about twice per die area compared to e.g. 4570K (since Haswell-E does not have any iGPU).

 

[Makaveli]

According to this article DDR4 RAM will not be that more expensive than DDR3 in 2014Q3/Q4:

Also, would anyone care to estimate what the 8 core Haswell-E will cost? At around $500 I'd be tempted. Then Intel would still charge about twice per die area compared to e.g. 4570K (since Haswell-E does not have any iGPU).

This will be the first consumer level 8 core chip I'm expecting north of that price. Maybe the 6 core version will be around $500.

 

[BUnit1701]

Problem I have with X79 or X99 is it isn't frequently updated. We had the 3930K and now the 4930K, in the meantime we up are to the Haswell refresh and likely Broadwell by the time X99 launches. Its a stagnant option. By the time X99 is updated I'd bet we'd be past Skylake and another couple of architectures later. The 4770K stock is already close behind the 3930K unless something heavily multithreaded pulls it away, purely down to architecture and IPC improvements.

I'd personally rather pay $300 or $400 every 2-3yrs then a $1K for a CPU that will be outclassed sooner rather than later.

Define 'outclassed'? My understanding is performance increase from Sandy Bridge to Haswell, while detectable, is not something most users will notice in day to day use. Also, if you are on the Xx9 platform, it is assumed you are forced to prioritize PCI-E connectivity over having the latest CPU.

If they keep falling behind with these enthusiast chips they will have to skip a generation at some point soon to catch up.

Not going to happen, the Xx9 platform is a rebrand of their server parts, and those parts are a generation behind due to the high levels of validation and testing required for a server grade part.

 

[blackened23]

According to this article DDR4 RAM will not be that more expensive than DDR3 in 2014Q3/Q4:


Also, would anyone care to estimate what the 8 core Haswell-E will cost? At around $500 I'd be tempted. Then Intel would still charge about twice per die area compared to e.g. 4570K (since Haswell-E does not have any iGPU).

You would consider it for 500$. Oh. Okay. I was under the impression based on your thread history that you bought AMD and nothing but, especially with the anti intel schtick you've posted so much. I thought you were an AMD fan and nothing but. Not that there's anything wrong with that. So you will get it for 500$. Well the quad core HEDT chips are 300$. Guess we can count you as in for HEDT , right?

Anyway, DDR4. If you think that's going to happen, if you think the prices are going to be like that at launch, well have fun with that. I'm not saying that slide won't happen, but I am saying there's no way in hell it will happen that way. I've seen way too many DRAM launches to know this, intel had their cute slides for Rambus RDRAM telling us that it would launch at similar prices. Guess what happened there. Mark my words. But if you want to think otherwise, have at it.

Not that it matters. Peoople that buy HEDT platforms are not nickel and diming penny pinchers. Those nickel and dime thrift shoppers buy other platforms, more than like the mainstream quad core platforms. There's nothing wrong with being thrifty, either. I like the mainstream platform myself, but mainly because the software I use on a regular basis doesn't take advantage of hexa/octa core. But i'd gander that the vast majority of people buying this stuff simply won't care about the higher cost.

 

[blackened23]

Problem I have with X79 or X99 is it isn't frequently updated. We had the 3930K and now the 4930K, in the meantime we up are to the Haswell refresh and likely Broadwell by the time X99 launches. Its a stagnant option. By the time X99 is updated I'd bet we'd be past Skylake and another couple of architectures later. The 4770K stock is already close behind the 3930K unless something heavily multithreaded pulls it away, purely down to architecture and IPC improvements.

I'd personally rather pay $300 or $400 every 2-3yrs then a $1K for a CPU that will be outclassed sooner rather than later.

So the Haswell "outclasses" the Ivy? I don't think I really agree with that. Even going by IPC, there's an increase, but outclassed? Yeah, I don't think so.

A 4c Haswell certainly doesn't outclass a 6c/12t Ivy in workloads that actually use 6c/12t. That's for darn sure. It's pretty simple. If your software (most likely professional in nature) uses high thread counts, you get HEDT. It really is that simple. If you're only a PC gamer, HEDT makes much less sense. The mainstream is better bang for the buck with basically the same or better performance in 99% of the games.

Just buy what benefits your software that fits in your budget. That's what it boils down to. But the statement of "outclassed" is simply incorrect. It isn't ideal, sure, but being that the HEDT chips are cut down server parts, i'd assume it takes more time to get to market compared to mainstream parts. I don't like that, but that's probably how things are.

 

[rtsurfer]

You would consider it for 500$. Oh. Okay. I was under the impression based on your thread history that you bought AMD and nothing but, especially with the anti intel schtick you've posted so much. I thought you were an AMD fan and nothing but. Not that there's anything wrong with that. So you will get it for 500$. Well the quad core HEDT chips are 300$. Guess we can count you as in for HEDT , right?

Pretty light Prejudice you got going there.

People can't be fans of performance according to you, they have to choose a side.

Anyways, I would literally be DAMNED if Intel released an Octo Core for $500 (Take my money). I think only the $1000 SKU is going to be 8 Cores.
Maybe, just maybe a $700 part.

DDR4, is going to be expensive like any other new tech, they have to milk the cow.
And the people that think that Haswell outperforms X79 by a wide margin need to do some more research.

 

[IntelUser2000]

According to this article DDR4 RAM will not be that more expensive than DDR3 in 2014Q3/Q4:

That's average pricing based on per chip basis. If the demand is high, or the manufacturers decide that its worth the premium, price will be higher than that.

Average pricing also GUARANTEES high density modules like 16GB and 32GB will cost quite a lot more compared to DDR3.

Also, would anyone care to estimate what the 8 core Haswell-E will cost? At around $500 I'd be tempted. Then Intel would still charge about twice per die area compared to e.g. 4570K (since Haswell-E does not have any iGPU).

Cost of pure manufacturing(die size) and packaging costs is a minimal portion of these processors. Therefore, pricing is nearly entirely determined by market positioning.

I think the following is reasonable:
-6 core HSW-E: $300
-8 core HSW-E low: $599(just like 3930K/4930K)
-8 core HSW-E high: $999

Why do I assume the 6-core is relatively affordable? Well because LGA1155 destined "Devil's Canyon" chips have high clocks. It's a choice of high clocks and 4 cores versus standard clocks and 6 cores.

 

[Unoid]

That's average pricing based on per chip basis. If the demand is high, or the manufacturers decide that its worth the premium, price will be higher than that.

Average pricing also GUARANTEES high density modules like 16GB and 32GB will cost quite a lot more compared to DDR3.



Cost of pure manufacturing(die size) and packaging costs is a minimal portion of these processors. Therefore, pricing is nearly entirely determined by market positioning.

I think the following is reasonable:
-6 core HSW-E: $300
-8 core HSW-E low: $599(just like 3930K/4930K)
-8 core HSW-E high: $999

Why do I assume the 6-core is relatively affordable? Well because LGA1155 destined "Devil's Canyon" chips have high clocks. It's a choice of high clocks and 4 cores versus standard clocks and 6 cores.

We would all like to think that. however, since when has Intel actually priced or released parts for the enthusiast that was reasonable?

AMD has no competing product so we will see a
- 4 core H-E High at $300
- 6 core H-E High at $500
- 8 core H-E Low at $750
- 8 core H-E High at $999

No way intel will "let" us have our real 8 core processors for 500 & under.

 

[ClockHound]

We would all like to think that. however, since when has Intel actually priced or released parts for the enthusiast that was reasonable?

AMD has no competing product so we will see a
- 4 core H-E High at $300
- 6 core H-E High at $500
- 8 core H-E Low at $750
- 8 core H-E High at $999

No way intel will "let" us have our real 8 core processors for 500 & under.

There are no 4-core Hassee-e dies (or scavenged Xeon dies). 6 core is the new 4 core. However, a $500 hexcore could be possible. $500 for the CPU, $700 for the RAM, what's not to like?

However, why get a measly six core, when for a hundred or so more than the cost of RAM, you could get the FIRST 8 core consumer desktop CPU. Say...$850-899 for the base model 8 core.

But, really, is your e-peen so small that you'd settle for a 'base model' unit? Hell, no! So, you want to be fully cached up. The 8 core HW-E E-Peen Edition.

But, $999 is too cheap. Has to be priced above a Titan or it's not high end. So, $1299+ for a proper desktop processor and the over-priced DDR4 seems like a bargain.

If Intel marketing was sneaky clever, they'd have someone create a new fad coin that uses AVX2 and 8 cores to be moderately profitable. No wimpy GPU cycles. Something that needed real cores, for real work. And peeps lined up at the egg to pay retail + 35% for them ;-)

These speculation threads are so much fun!

 

[Magic Carpet]

Appreciate all the feedback guys.

I am getting pretty bored with my 4770K. I am thinking of getting a six-core version which shouldn't be too expensive along with a 16gb stick of DDR4 ram. So, there is plenty of room for upgrades. I try to go cheap and save money, but always seem to regret it later on. Not really interested in the top part, just want to be able to upgrade to it in a couple years time without swapping the board.

Unless of course, that Devil's Canyon is going to be next "Klondike", oc-wise. Well, that could only help the wait for me, if x99 is further delayed.

 

[rtsurfer]

Unless of course, that Devil's Canyon is going to be next "Klondike", oc-wise.

Who said that Haswell-E wouldn't OC as well as Devil's Canyon.

More cores will be more heat to deal with but a water cooling rig while OCing a hex-core is pretty much required.

 

[OCGuy]

Haswell E will be sooner than 5-6 months, as there have been ES in the wild and Q3 has been reported.

The name aside, we know there will be a 6C/12T and 8C/16T and they will support DDR4.

My guess is that the 6C will fill the $999.00 slot, and the 8C will fill a slot once occupied by the QX9770, @ $1499.00

Remember that Intel product launches don't push down the prices on previous chips, they just replace/EOL them.

 

[AtenRa]

If 6-Core Haswell-E will be released at $300, then Intel will have to lower the price of 4C 8 Thread Core i7 for Socket 1150. I dont believe this will happen, but you never know.

 

[Makaveli]

If 6-Core Haswell-E will be released at $300, then Intel will have to lower the price of 4C 8 Thread Core i7 for Socket 1150. I dont believe this will happen, but you never know.

Agreed I highly doubt you will see a 6 core chip from intel at that price.

They have no competition why would they sell it $300. Intel is out to make money and to keep their high profit margins.

I want to know if Haswell E will be based on the first generation of haswell silicon or will it be based on the refresh core just released.

 

[RussianSensation]

A lot of PC enthusiasts who can afford higher priced CPUs skip the extreme version and go for the 2nd fastest option. Why pay $1K for i7-4960X when $550 i7-4930K overclocks more or less the same and the extra 3MB of cache doesn't really help the i7-4960X?

What I think Intel will do to entice the consumers you are currently buying the $550 6-cores to buy that $1K level CPU. They can do that by making it an 8-core part. This way many more people will jump on the 8-core Extreme Edition for bragging rights!

Also, if they price Devil's Canyon much higher than $330, it will make that $550 6-core HW-E suddenly look a lot more attractive to those who aren't only after single-threaded performance. All of a sudden, Devil's Canyon will target overclockers/gamers specifically, 6-core for productivity and 8-core for the ultimate workstation without having to spend a lot more on Xeons.

I found this hilarious from TP's review of the i7 4960X:

"In fact, let me give you Blanda's big list of reasons to build an X79-based system and the percentage of people who fit each one:

Need more cores, cache, and memory bandwidth for a real application. (2%)
Need higher memory capacity for actual workloads. (4%)
Need more PCIe lanes for multi-GPU configs. (1%)
Thinks you need more PCIe lanes for multi-GPU configs. (12%)
Need more knobs for extreme overclocking. (5%)
Bragging rights, money > sense. (51%)
Clicked the wrong button on Falcon Northwest online store. (27%)"

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yea, I don't see having a hex core less than 500.00. That would effectively be a price cut, and I just don't see that happening. Best case I see is hex core at 500 and octa core replacing the EE at 999.

Worst case I see is hex core at 500, hex core EE at 999 and octa core in the 1300 range.

A hex core at 300 just seems absurd to me, since it would directly compete with 4770k.