Has violence in the Ukraine reinforced the 2nd amendment?

[zinfamous]

Care to provide a couple of examples?


I do not know enough about the region to form an opinion.

Well, according to you in the Piers Morgan thread, no non-citizen can have a valid opinion about the outside country in question.

So, you should probably stop trying to do that, here.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Where are you gun nuts getting the idea that your guns are there to "protect" you from the government? If the government wanted to tried to take your guns they would succeed. You and your bushmaster rifle are not equivalent to an MP. You and your drunk buddies are not a platoon and you and your gun club are not a company.

First the government would need the military and police to disavow their oath to protect and defend the US Constitution. Then the government would need the military and police to disarm their family, friends and fellow Americans.

Sorry but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Texashiker]

Well, according to you in the Piers Morgan thread, no non-citizen can have a valid opinion about the outside country in question.

So, you should probably stop trying to do that, here.

Simply not true.

Have an opinion, I do not care.

But do not come over here and trash our way of life.

 

[fskimospy]

First the government would need the military and police to disavow their oath to protect and defend the US Constitution. Then the government would need the military and police to disarm their family, friends and fellow Americans.

Sorry but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I agree with you. In that case though it would be the morality of the military and the police that would be defending the Constitution, not the guns of the populace.

The fundamental bonds of our military to the civilian population is the best defense we have against it being used towards those kind of ends. I think that those who envision armed civilians giving our military a run for its money in actual combat would have a rude awakening in their (brief) lives after trying to engage a professional military force of the caliber of our army.

 

[fskimospy]

Simply not true.

Have an opinion, I do not care.

But do not come over here and trash our way of life.

Have an opinion, I do not care. Just don't have that opinion in my country.

For someone who continuously harps about freedom of speech, etc, you certainly aren't keen on other people exercising theirs.

 

[Texashiker]

Have an opinion, I do not care. Just don't have that opinion in my country.

For someone who continuously harps about freedom of speech, etc, you certainly aren't keen on other people exercising theirs.

Its better than going around telling everyone they are wrong.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Its better than going around telling everyone they are wrong.

No, it's not.

 

[Texashiker]

No, it's not.

You are wrong, yes it is.

 

[surfsatwerk]

You are wrong, yes it is.

Your opinion that freedom of speech should be sanctioned when you feel like it is dumb.

 

[brycejones]

Its better than going around telling everyone they are wrong.

Then maybe you should stop being wrong all the time.

 

[shortylickens]

Or maybe they don't view gun control legislation as being the vehicle for the Holocaust.

And this is the ADL we're talking about, they see the Holocaust in everything. If they aren't seeing a link to the Holocaust or anti-semitism in something, maybe that's good cause to re-examine your position.

it wasnt the vehicle.
it was the drivers license.

You gotta start somewhere. And disarming people is damn near always the first step to oppression.
The egyptians, greeks, and romans knew it too. Whether they wanted to keep control over recently acquired slaves or tenant free men, or exert stronger control over free men, they always started with disarmament and sometimes a stronger military/police presence.

 

[norseamd]

The fundamental bonds of our military to the civilian population is the best defense we have against it being used towards those kind of ends. I think that those who envision armed civilians giving our military a run for its money in actual combat would have a rude awakening in their (brief) lives after trying to engage a professional military force of the caliber of our army.

ever seen what insurgents can come up with in iraq

 

[theeedude]

You have to remember that most cops were also unarmed except for batons and shields, only special forces had the sniper rifles. That's why they didn't shoot at protesters for three months, when attacked with Molotov cocktails and even shot at. If there was a right to bear arms, the protesters would be armed, but so would many more of the cops, like they are in the US. And in US, there is no way you could throw stones and gasoline at the cops, much less pointing guns at them, without getting shot.

 

[Thebobo]

ever seen what insurgents can come up with in iraq

Yes they have Explosives and RPGs and Machine guns. Should we make those legal to?

I can just see it now - C4 doesn't kill people, people do

 

[Brovane]

First the government would need the military and police to disavow their oath to protect and defend the US Constitution. Then the government would need the military and police to disarm their family, friends and fellow Americans.

Sorry but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I could realistically see issues with the Military, especially reservists declining to participate in gun confiscation.

However the police are another issue. The New Orleans PD had no issues with confiscating guns during Katrina from civilians with no cause. This was later ruled illegal in the courts but the damage had already been done. The New Orleans PD had to be sued again because they where making it really difficult for the owners of the illegally siezed firearms to get them back.

It might seem wrong but I trust the military a lot more than the police to protect and defend the US Constitution.

 

[norseamd]

Yes they have Explosives and RPGs and Machine guns. Should we make those legal to? I can just see it now - C4 doesn't kill people, people do

you can make your own explosives. and the cities could be transformed into a fortress wasteland not unlike stalingrad. just throw up enough debris to prevent passage of vehicles and stay under rubble to protect against aircraft. could even go into the subways and such. mine the streets with ieds. when they try to airdrop troops in you could use guns and even homemade grenades to fight with them. also homemade mortars are a possibility.

 

[norseamd]

It might seem wrong but I trust the military a lot more than the police to protect and defend the US Constitution.

no shit

 

[norseamd]

Machine guns

get someone to smuggle in some automatic gun parts and you could convert a lot of guns owned in the us to fully automatic.

 

[zinfamous]

Its better than going around telling everyone they are wrong.

I can see why that would frustrate you. But there are ways to improve that

 

[norseamd]

I can just see it now - C4 doesn't kill people, people do

does any one do photoshop? could they make the shirt?

 

[brandonb]

I think that those who envision armed civilians giving our military a run for its money in actual combat would have a rude awakening in their (brief) lives after trying to engage a professional military force of the caliber of our army.

Sure, if you just come out and say "Lets rumble." But hide some insurgents or rebels among the populace, and the professional military will be useless.

Also there will likely be a lot of patriots from the professional military force who would side with the armed civilians, and train them. There are a lot of veterans out there who are just as unhappy with government as the armed civilians and would have no problem jumping in.

As another has mentioned. Iraq was a blood bath. Our military was pretty clueless on how to handle it. It would have been worse if our enemy didn't fight among each other.

Add in a country 50x the size, and with no infighting, and IMHO smarter populace, and I'd hate to be our professional military. We don't have some impenetrable fortress. I'd imagine us being way weaker than most think and the government leads on.

 

[rommelrommel]

get someone to smuggle in some automatic gun parts and you could convert a lot of guns owned in the us to fully automatic.

Aim more, shoot less. Full auto isn't much use unless on a belt fed gun dedicated to supressive fire.

But, not to forget all the military units that might revolt en masse, or at least neglect to guard storage facilities, etc.

 

[norseamd]

Aim more, shoot less. Full auto isn't much use unless on a belt fed gun dedicated to supressive fire. But, not to forget all the military units that might revolt en masse, or at least neglect to guard storage facilities, etc.

true at least at far range. at short range automatic with small catridges can be good. but i was mostly refuting his answer more than anything. besides the sheer number of revolting citizens would cause a huge problem. and the revolt of military units and their garrisons and maybe even some police forces would add hardware and trained troops to the citizens

 

[Anarchist420]

violence in ukraine has reinforced the need for decentralism whether it be a loose confederation or outright independent states... the imf is a harsh lender and if russia loans to them instead, then production cant happen. it would set a good precedent and it would send quite a wonderful warning to the u.s.g. if the people in ukraine made it so their own current public debt got cancelled.

and once the next president of america wins with less express consent than mcaullife got in virginia, then secession will be the only way to reduce tyranny. less secession means less consent.

 

[norseamd]

also remember in a huge city that has become a fortified wasteland by being turned into ruins that there will be a lot of land to cover and guided weapons are expensive. i suppose dumb bombs might be cheap enough but with millions of citizens hiding throughout the city it will be hard to find them all. destroying one group might be easy but there are millions more where those came from. and in the north and southeast forests will be even harder to find revolting citizens especially those that have lived there a long time like in the southern swamps or appalacia