Has violence in the Ukraine reinforced the 2nd amendment?

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Lets have a serious discussion on the recent uprising in the Ukraine and how it could affect the future of gun control debates here in the US.

There are videos and pictures out of Ukraine showing government troops and snipers killing unarmed citizens. How long before the memes start showing up comparing ousted President Viktor Yanukovych to diane feinstein?

Or will these current events be forgotten about?

Anyone want to bet whether the images coming out of the Ukraine will be used to fight any new gun control laws?
 
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brandonb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2006
3,731
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0
TH, nobody will truly care or abandon their cause (gun control) until the problem hits their doorstep.

It's just how life works. For example: Nobody cares about cancer, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc. until it hits someone in their family or they are inflicted themselves.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,718
47,407
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Remember, the experience of other countries is irrelevant when talking about if gun control laws are effective because the cultures are too different.

That is, until you think you've found an example that works against gun control. Then it's totally relevant.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,786
6,188
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Lets have a serious discussion on the recent uprising in the Ukraine and how it could affect the future of gun control debates here in the US.

There are videos and pictures out of Ukraine showing government troops and snipers killing unarmed citizens. How long before the memes start showing up comparing ousted President Viktor Yanukovych to diane feinstein?

Or will these current events be forgotten about?

Anyone want to bet whether the images coming out of the Ukraine will be used to fight any new gun control laws?

Do you support citizens in eastern Ukraine who don't like the new government in Kiev and maybe would like to separate from Ukraine getting guns from Russia?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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Remember, the experience of other countries is irrelevant when talking about if gun control laws are effective because the cultures are too different.

That is, until you think you've found an example that works against gun control. Then it's totally relevant.

Care to provide a couple of examples?



Do you support citizens in eastern Ukraine who don't like the new government in Kiev and maybe would like to separate from Ukraine getting guns from Russia?

I do not know enough about the region to form an opinion.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,786
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BTW, the people who got themselves killed were idiots. The police was retreating from the street under sniper cover. They decided to give chase. Could have just waited 10 minutes and just walked in there.
 

Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
Lets have a serious discussion on the recent uprising in the Ukraine and how it could affect the future of gun control debates here in the US.

There are videos and pictures out of Ukraine showing government troops and snipers killing unarmed citizens. How long before the memes start showing up comparing ousted President Viktor Yanukovych to diane feinstein?

Or will these current events be forgotten about?

Anyone want to bet whether the images coming out of the Ukraine will be used to fight any new gun control laws?

First a serious response. Are you out of your fucking mind?

Comparing Viktor Yanukovych to Diane feinstein ?? In what possible way would you compare them lol. How do you even think of a comparison, did that come from one of your web sites you get your information from. Please provide link.

Serious TH you need to get out and travel see the world read some stuff other then extreme right wing materiel. Your going to grow up miserable pissed off and mad at the world.



\
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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So the right to bear arms depends on your opinion of the region?

You asked me a question, I said I did not know enough to have an opinion.

So where did you come up with this next post from?


First a serious response. Are you out of your fucking mind?

Comparing Viktor Yanukovych to Diane feinstein ?? In what possible way would you compare them lol. How do you even think of a comparison, did that come from one of your web sites you get your information from. Please provide link.

Have you seen some of the propaganda about the Arizona bill that would allow for religious discrimination against gays? There are memes out there with nazi symbols hanging from the walls of the Arizona legislator.

If we allowed people like diane feinstein to take our rights away, we could end up with another Viktor Yanukovych.

That is where the comparison could be drawn. Not that it will work out that way, but people on the pro-gun side might twist it that way.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
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It's just how life works. For example: Nobody cares about cancer, MS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc. until it hits someone in their family or they are inflicted themselves.
Translation: people are cunts.

It's an American tradition to hate other Americans. We made cocaine illegal because we hate black Americans (google "cocaine crazed negro"). We made opium illegal because we hate Chinese Americans. We ran out of minorities to pick on, so we made alcohol illegal and started arresting white Americans. Then we made gold illegal (executive order 6201) because we hate rich Americans. We were inspired by how Jews in Warsaw were contained in ghettos, so we created our own ghettos to keep blacks contained in a small area; we couldn't round them up forcibly so we made it work by giving them "free" housing (similar to how it's free to be in prison).

You would think that all of the uprisings and civil unrest around the world would teach people how important it is for citizens to be armed, but you would be wrong. For every 1 person who wants to free, you'll find maybe 2 or 3 people saying civilians need to be disarmed and the president should be able to bypass congress whenever he feels like doing so.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,786
6,188
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You go from asking about supporting eastern Ukraine to including all of the Ukraine?

Please stop with the bait and switch.

OK, since you are more informed about all of the Ukraine, do you support all Ukrainians having guns or not?
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
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For every 1 person who wants to free, you'll find maybe 2 or 3 people saying civilians need to be disarmed and the president should be able to bypass congress whenever he feels like doing so.

I have some new chicks this spring, and with every batch of new chicks it is the same.

When they get big enough to go outside, and their cage is opened for the first time, they just stand there. They just stand there looking at the open door.

I usually take a few chicks and set them outside the cage. Some run straight back to the cage, while some start looking around. The end result is always the same. After tasting freedom and being out of that cage, they never want to go back in.

Chances are those people who support large government have never known freedom. They enjoy being in that cage and letting their owner protect and provide for them.


do you support all Ukrainians having guns or not?

Yes.
 

Spungo

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2012
3,217
2
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OK, since you are more informed about all of the Ukraine, do you support all Ukrainians having guns or not?
As a Ukrainian Jew, I'm going to say yes. Do you know how many people have tried to kill us? Stalin tried to kill us in the 30's because we were Ukrainian. Hitler tried to kill us in the 40's because we were Jewish.

Show me 1 Jewish person who supports gun confiscation and I will show you a retarded person.
 

bradly1101

Diamond Member
May 5, 2013
4,689
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www.bradlygsmith.org
Boy if everyone was able to participate in an armed uprising of their own, there wouldn't be anarchy? Wouldn't divided countries with a lot of guns be in a constant state of civil war? Oh yeah, there are many countries in the Middle East and Africa that fit that description perfectly. More guns are the answer?

Some of the protesters had deadly weapons and stormed military positions, which helped prompt the violent reaction. Do you think if a lot or most of them were armed and shooting, the military wouldn't have come back with much more than snipers?

The relative peacefulness of the protest is what made it successful.

Why do some people think the answer to problems of violence is more guns? Geez!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...sts-ask-what-if-ukrainians-had-more-guns.html
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
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Have you seen some of the propaganda about the Arizona bill that would allow for religious discrimination against gays? There are memes out there with nazi symbols hanging from the walls of the Arizona legislator. If we allowed people like diane feinstein to take our rights away, we could end up with another Viktor Yanukovych. That is where the comparison could be drawn. Not that it will work out that way, but people on the pro-gun side might twist it that way.

there is more truth to this than seems at first. american politician just do it more covertly than more eastern europeans. the change of sattitude from the 90s is very worrying. the fact of the matter is that many businesses are encouraging the government to act like this as they also have designs on the populace. 10 years ago the government and other "neutral" focus groups put out a statement that the link between terrorism and organized crime was deminishing. well it was but they conviently omitted the increasing links between those two and both businesses and governements. the fact of the matter is that western governments and businesses have been running shadow nog groups like transparancy international and the wrold bank and imf for a long time. they use these instatutions for the furthment of capitalism and corruption
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,456
854
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As a Ukrainian Jew, I'm going to say yes. Do you know how many people have tried to kill us? Stalin tried to kill us in the 30's because we were Ukrainian. Hitler tried to kill us in the 40's because we were Jewish.

Show me 1 Jewish person who supports gun confiscation and I will show you a retarded person.

I know many Jewish people who support gun control.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
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Generally, I am against anything TH posts, but the OP title is a good question. The spirit of the 2nd amendment was for precisely what is happening in Ukraine right now. I think that "fear" is going to play a large part in the continuing gun control debate.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,718
47,407
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Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Generally, I am against anything TH posts, but the OP title is a good question. The spirit of the 2nd amendment was for precisely what is happening in Ukraine right now.

Thank you.


I think that "fear" is going to play a large part in the continuing gun control debate.

For the most part I feel that anti-gun people are sincere in their actions. They honestly feel they are going to prevent the next sandy hook.

But on the other side of the coin, restrictive gun control enables oppressive governments.

My opinion, if we had universal health care and the mentally ill received the help they needed, a lot of our gun crime would go away.