Has violence in the Ukraine reinforced the 2nd amendment?

[norseamd]

getting guns from Russia?

what type of hardware are we talking about here

 

[Texashiker]

what type of hardware are we talking about here

The kind that goes pew-pew-pew.

 

[norseamd]

The kind that goes pew-pew-pew.

all depends on context i suppose.

more or less this is russia smuggling arms into eastern ukraine but there might be valid reasons for it if the pro western ukrainians start to attack pro russian ukrainians. on the other hand it could be used to arm a population for civil war and that would be worrying. the us and western europe should probably start to consider running firearms into western and central ukraine also.

also the keyword is "hardware"

so what exactly are they smuggling

hope they just go pew pew pew pew

 

[Spungo]

The Anti-Defamation League would be one:

http://archive.adl.org/civil_rights/2008_policy_priority/gun_control.html

Reminds me of that Chappelle skit where the black guy is a KKK leader. Now we have Jewish people supporting laws that were used to exterminate Jewish people.

 

[Thebobo]

As a Ukrainian Jew, I'm going to say yes. Do you know how many people have tried to kill us? Stalin tried to kill us in the 30's because we were Ukrainian. Hitler tried to kill us in the 40's because we were Jewish.

Show me 1 Jewish person who supports gun confiscation and I will show you a retarded person.

You are not those people.

Indians tried to kill us because we are Americans. The Germans tried to kill us because we are american, The Japanese tried to kill us because we are american, heck the Taliban is trying to kill us because we are Americans.

Gun confiscation, you serious - Reasonable gun regulations - yes

 

[fskimospy]

Reminds me of that Chappelle skit where the black guy is a KKK leader. Now we have Jewish people supporting laws that were used to exterminate Jewish people.

Or maybe they don't view gun control legislation as being the vehicle for the Holocaust.

And this is the ADL we're talking about, they see the Holocaust in everything. If they aren't seeing a link to the Holocaust or anti-semitism in something, maybe that's good cause to re-examine your position.

 

[TreVader]

Where are you gun nuts getting the idea that your guns are there to "protect" you from the government? If the government wanted to tried to take your guns they would succeed. You and your bushmaster rifle are not equivalent to an MP. You and your drunk buddies are not a platoon and you and your gun club are not a company.

 

[Texashiker]

Where are you gun nuts getting the idea that your guns are there to "protect" you from the government? If the government wanted to tried to take your guns they would succeed. You and your bushmaster rifle are not equivalent to an MP. You and your drunk buddies are not a platoon and you and your gun club are not a company.

Kinda like what the US military did in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan?

And like what Russia did in Afghanistan?

Do not kid yourself. There are numerous example of how peasants defeated some of the largest militarizes in the world.

 

[norseamd]

Indians tried to kill us because we are Americans. The Germans tried to kill us because we are american, The Japanese tried to kill us because we are american, heck the Taliban is trying to kill us because we are Americans.

you have a higly distorted views of native american and colonist relations. there were hundreds of different tribes of native americans. just because some were aggresive to the white man just like they were to other amerindian tribes does not mean all were. most tribes that fought colonists did so after the colonists attacked them

 

[Brovane]

Where are you gun nuts getting the idea that your guns are there to "protect" you from the government? If the government wanted to tried to take your guns they would succeed. You and your bushmaster rifle are not equivalent to an MP. You and your drunk buddies are not a platoon and you and your gun club are not a company.

Which is why it is important to not support gun registration. The government doesn't know where to look to start the gun grabbing.

 

[theeedude]

all depends on context i suppose.

more or less this is russia smuggling arms into eastern ukraine but there might be valid reasons for it if the pro western ukrainians start to attack pro russian ukrainians. on the other hand it could be used to arm a population for civil war and that would be worrying. the us and western europe should probably start to consider running firearms into western and central ukraine also.

also the keyword is "hardware"

so what exactly are they smuggling

hope they just go pew pew pew pew

I am talking about AK's.

 

[norseamd]

Where are you gun nuts getting the idea that your guns are there to "protect" you from the government? If the government wanted to tried to take your guns they would succeed. You and your bushmaster rifle are not equivalent to an MP. You and your drunk buddies are not a platoon and you and your gun club are not a company.

the 2nd admenent has nothing to do with guns. it gives the population the right to form militias as a defense against both foreign aggressors and tyranical governments. guns are the equipment that is neccessary to form a militia. if the government made a law outright and started to round up everyone with guns massive revolts would happen and the american government might not be able to contain them all. what about dogs? should the american government take them away too because they mgiht protect us?

 

[norseamd]

I am talking about AK's.

and if the us and western european countries start to bring guns into western and central ukraine?

 

[Brovane]

Lets have a serious discussion on the recent uprising in the Ukraine and how it could affect the future of gun control debates here in the US.

There are videos and pictures out of Ukraine showing government troops and snipers killing unarmed citizens. How long before the memes start showing up comparing ousted President Viktor Yanukovych to diane feinstein?

Or will these current events be forgotten about?

Anyone want to bet whether the images coming out of the Ukraine will be used to fight any new gun control laws?

I don't think people understand the connection between gun control and government tyranny.

 

[smackababy]

Thank you.




For the most part I feel that anti-gun people are sincere in their actions. They honestly feel they are going to prevent the next sandy hook.

But on the other side of the coin, restrictive gun control enables oppressive governments.

My opinion, if we had universal health care and the mentally ill received the help they needed, a lot of our gun crime would go away.

I take issue because Sandy Hook isn't the real problem with violence in America. I get that when it leaves the poverty stricken "urban" areas and pours into the upper middle class, white neighborhoods it scares the people that actually vote, but look at the numbers. The overwhelming majority of violent crime happens with hand guns and happens in areas of much lesser means. Plus, we aren't even close to the homicide rate we were at during the cocaine crisis in the 80s. We are at around 1/3 of that.

 

[Daverino]

 

[z1ggy]

Where are you gun nuts getting the idea that your guns are there to "protect" you from the government? If the government wanted to tried to take your guns they would succeed. You and your bushmaster rifle are not equivalent to an MP. You and your drunk buddies are not a platoon and you and your gun club are not a company.

According to wiki, if you count reserves, the Us military has a total of 2.2M people in it.

Compared that to the "adult" class of citizen (ages 15-64, that I'd consider able to fight in a conflict) of a total of 205M... And the citizens outnumber the military ~10:1.

Unless the gov't is going to literally obliterate everything, I don't think it would be so simple.

 

[theeedude]

and if the us and western european countries start to bring guns into western and central ukraine?

What about it? It's going to be more of a problem for the pro-EU governing fraction in Kiev than the Russian speaking regions because the far right western Ukrainian nationalists are against EU integration too, and they are the ones radical enough to actually do something with those guns.

 

[smackababy]

According to wiki, if you count reserves, the Us military has a total of 2.2M people in it.

Compared that to the "adult" class of citizen (ages 15-64, that I'd consider able to fight in a conflict) of a total of 205M... And the citizens outnumber the military ~10:1.

Unless the gov't is going to literally obliterate everything, I don't think it would be so simple.

Plus, the military isn't some separate class of the common citizen. When Soldier Joe and Airman Frank are told to enter their hometown and start shooting their former neighbors, do you think they are going to side with the government?

Take into account the overwhelming majority of the military aren't some elite, combat trained individuals, the general popular has a pretty good chance in the face of a real oppressive government. Granted, that is if it just went all super police state overnight, rather than gradually erode our freedoms until we wake up and it's 1984.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Reminds me of that Chappelle skit where the black guy is a KKK leader. Now we have Jewish people supporting laws that were used to exterminate Jewish people.

Were German Jews in the 30s heavily armed? Is there any evidence that gun control led to the holocaust?

 

[norseamd]

Granted, that is if it just went all super police state overnight, rather than gradually erode our freedoms until we wake up and it's 1984.

this. the corrupt politicians and businessmen have a huge job in front of them if they want to do it even gradually but it is possible with enough savvy

 

[Vdubchaos]

Generally, I am against anything TH posts, but the OP title is a good question. The spirit of the 2nd amendment was for precisely what is happening in Ukraine right now. I think that "fear" is going to play a large part in the continuing gun control debate.

What's happening in Ukraine is essentially undoing of Communinsm and Tzar rule.

Many Americans think that Communism was abolished back 2 decades ago........it wasn't.

Label changes changed very little for some of these countries.......and they have simply returned to Tzar/Monarchy type rule (Russia is a good example).

And after the whole "end of communism" came the entire "it's ok now" thing with China.

It's funny how US (and Russia) risked the whole world in the name of "cold war" aka "communism".....when a decade later Communists are our biggest business partners.

You see my friends, entire Cold War was simply "fought" because Russia would not put up with US policy and would no let US/Corps take over their resources/be part of their agenda.....

I won't even get into the fact that entire Eastern Europe was left for Russia after WW2 (which should've never happened). Lot of these countries were not "liberated" until MANY years after WW2.

Heck Ukraine is STILL trying to liberate from Communism/Tzar rule.....

 

[norseamd]

What's happening in Ukraine is essentially undoing of Communinsm and Tzar rule. Many Americans think that Communism was abolished back 2 decades ago........it wasn't. Label changes changed very little for some of these countries.......and they have simply returned to Tzar/Monarchy type rule (Russia is a good example). And after the whole "end of communism" came the entire "it's ok now" thing with China. It's funny how US (and Russia) risked the whole world in the name of "cold war" aka "communism".....when a decade later Communists are our biggest business partners. You see my friends, entire Cold War was simply "fought" because Russia would not put up with US policy and would no let US/Corps take over their resources/be part of their agenda..... I won't even get into the fact that entire Eastern Europe was left for Russia after WW2 (which should've never happened). Lot of these countries were not "liberated" until MANY years after WW2. Heck Ukraine is STILL trying to liberate from Communism/Tzar rule..... Vdubchaos is online now Report Post

this might have had a lot to do with stalin as well as the hate and fear mongering of us politicians. the successive russian leadership just inherited the political climate

 

[rommelrommel]

Boy if everyone was able to participate in an armed uprising of their own, there wouldn't be anarchy? Wouldn't divided countries with a lot of guns be in a constant state of civil war? Oh yeah, there are many countries in the Middle East and Africa that fit that description perfectly. More guns are the answer?

Some of the protesters had deadly weapons and stormed military positions, which helped prompt the violent reaction. Do you think if a lot or most of them were armed and shooting, the military wouldn't have come back with much more than snipers?

The relative peacefulness of the protest is what made it successful.

Why do some people think the answer to problems of violence is more guns? Geez!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...sts-ask-what-if-ukrainians-had-more-guns.html

There are a lot of guns in Canada and I have yet to see any anarchy or civil wars.

Where are you gun nuts getting the idea that your guns are there to "protect" you from the government? If the government wanted to tried to take your guns they would succeed. You and your bushmaster rifle are not equivalent to an MP. You and your drunk buddies are not a platoon and you and your gun club are not a company.

I think you're delusional if you think the US govt tries to confiscate all guns tomorrow and it will succeed.

I don't think people understand the connection between gun control and government tyranny.

No, they don't seem to.

 

[Texashiker]

I think you're delusional if you think the US govt tries to confiscate all guns tomorrow and it will succeed.

There are millions of guns that are not registered and there is no history of.

It would be physically impossible to disarm the US population.