Has obama failed as a leader

[unokitty]

Lowest TV audience for the State of the Union since 2000.

If you like your state of the union speech, you can keep your state of the union speech.

LOL
Uno

 

[Owls]

Lowest TV audience for the State of the Union since 2000.

If you like your state of the union speech, you can keep your state of the union speech.

LOL
Uno

What insightful commentary that adds nothing to the thread like the OP. Which one of the Fox and friends are you on the show?

 

[rudeguy]

What insightful commentary that adds nothing to the thread like the OP. Which one of the Fox and friends are you on the show?

Which democratic president did you blow to get ahead in life?


Or...

Was it all of them?

 

[unokitty]

What insightful commentary that adds nothing to the thread like the OP. Which one of the Fox and friends are you on the show?

Fact is that Obama's speech had the lowest TV rating of any State of the Union speech in the last 14 years.

You may dislike that fact. But your dislike doesn't change that fact.

You are also free to demonstrate your narrow mindedness and intolerance by stereotyping anyone that cites a fact that you don't like.

If you like your narrow mindedness and intolerance, you are free to keep your narrow mindedness and intolerance.

LOL
Uno

 

[TerryMathews]

And you would have ignored the shitstorm and legislation being launched from congress forbidding you from
A. Bringing them to the us.
B. giving the trials
And finally
C. Housing them in the us.


Sorry but congress is just as much at fault for the gitmo mess or maybe even more so than the president.

They endured the shitstorm over PPACA. No reason why they couldn't on this.

Its all about priorities I suppose. Obviously honesty is not one of President Obama's priorities.

And to your last comment: I'm unaware of any congressman campaigning on closing Gitmo. Link?

 

[TerryMathews]

Like I said, they will totally ignore congresses part in pretty much every issue.

And look at you, you look for any excuse to ignore your President's complete lack of honesty and integrity. Even ignoring the fact that Obama was able to get anything he wanted passed in 2010. Just look at PPACA. Not one Republican vote.

 

[fskimospy]

They endured the shitstorm over PPACA. No reason why they couldn't on this.

Its all about priorities I suppose. Obviously honesty is not one of President Obama's priorities.

And to your last comment: I'm unaware of any congressman campaigning on closing Gitmo. Link?

So wait, your argument is that if Obama had just 'endured' more on GITMO that suddenly congress would have capitulated and repealed their legislation? What basis do you have for this? Can you point me to what reps and senators you think Obama could have flipped?

 

[fskimospy]

And look at you, you look for any excuse to ignore your President's complete lack of honesty and integrity. Even ignoring the fact that Obama was able to get anything he wanted passed in 2010. Just look at PPACA. Not one Republican vote.

The ACA as passed was definitely not exactly what Obama wanted. Democrats in 2010 were not a monolithic bloc.

 

[TerryMathews]

So wait, your argument is that if Obama had just 'endured' more on GITMO that suddenly congress would have capitulated and repealed their legislation? What basis do you have for this? Can you point me to what reps and senators you think Obama could have flipped?

There's no realistic reason why the same members that passed PPACA couldnt close Gitmo.

 

[TerryMathews]

The ACA as passed was definitely not exactly what Obama wanted. Democrats in 2010 were not a monolithic bloc.

See, I disagree. I think he got exactly what he and his donors wanted. A giant gift to the for-profit health care industry.

 

[Texashiker]

Right. So let's talk gitmo.

What would you have done differently and how would it have changed things?

What would I have done? I would have closed gitmo the second after I was sworn into office. Bring all of those people onto US soil, and either give them a fair trial or set them free.

How would it have changed things? You may not understand this, but we are supposed to be born with certain unalienable rights.

By treating people as if they have basic human rights, we set an example the rest of the world can follow.

See, I disagree. I think he got exactly what he and his donors wanted. A giant gift to the for-profit health care industry.

Insurance companies have been pushing for the individual mandate since the 1990s. They finally got it.

 

[fskimospy]

What would I have done? I would have closed gitmo the second after I was sworn into office. Bring all of those people onto US soil, and either give them a fair trial or set them free.

How would it have changed things? You may not understand this, but we are supposed to be born with certain unalienable rights.

By treating people as if they have basic human rights, we set an example the rest of the world can follow.

How would you go about doing that, considering there is language in every defense authorization bill expressly prohibiting any funding for such a transfer?

 

[fskimospy]

See, I disagree. I think he got exactly what he and his donors wanted. A giant gift to the for-profit health care industry.

Meh, that's just reducing an issue to such a basic level that it's not worth discussing. You're massively over-generalizing (and making ridiculous partisan statements) because you can't defend your original point and you know it.

 

[sportage]

Doesn't matter anymore with the tv rating for stuff like presidential speeches.
We all have DVR's, tivo's and not to mention podcasts.
Besides, the full speech was reran several times on several networks.
Hell, I didn't even watch it, live, myself.

I mean, it takes ten minutes to watch all the members stroll in.
Then another ten for the president to shake hands with everyone.
Then another five for applause after he reaches the podium.
Then ten more for all the introductions of the special guest attending.

Better to either dvr the speech, as most did, or just watch the highlights later on the next days news programs.

And besides, Obama is Obama. His speeches are pretty much predictable unless some issue like civil rights or the house acting like children gets his goat.
Then he gets a little steamed, gives a better speech, and makes the news.

Im all for his policies but I sometimes have a hard time listening to that way he talks.
Especially when he starts that "you know" stuff.
I.E. "you know, it doesn't have to be that way".
"you know, we can do better".
"you know, this isn't exactly rocket science".
"you know, people do their job and so should congress".
You know....

 

[TerryMathews]

Meh, that's just reducing an issue to such a basic level that it's not worth discussing. You're massively over-generalizing (and making ridiculous partisan statements) because you can't defend your original point and you know it.

Defend what? Its a hypothetical statement unless you've got a DeLorean and a Manchurian candidate in your garage.

So let's see how you like this for fair:

Either Obama was unusually naive and promised something he thought he could deliver (but couldn't), or was intentionally deceptive and promised something he had no intention of delivering.

Remember, this was one of his campaign promises. I didnt make him say it, he did that on his own. Expecting him to follow through is not unreasonable.

Obama took great pleasure at pointing out the 40 plus votes the Republicans had to repeal Obamacare, but at least they have something they can point at and say they tried. How many bills were introduced to close Gitmo? How many votes were held?

 

[fskimospy]

Defend what? Its a hypothetical statement unless you've got a DeLorean and a Manchurian candidate in your garage.

So let's see how you like this for fair:

Either Obama was unusually naive and promised something he thought he could deliver (but couldn't), or was intentionally deceptive and promised something he had no intention of delivering.

Remember, this was one of his campaign promises. I didnt make him say it, he did that on his own. Expecting him to follow through is not unreasonable.

Obama took great pleasure at pointing out the 40 plus votes the Republicans had to repeal Obamacare, but at least they have something they can point at and say they tried. How many bills were introduced to close Gitmo? How many votes were held?

You realize there was a vote to close Gitmo as recently as the most recent defense authorization bill, right? Republicans blocked it.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

How would you go about doing that, considering there is language in every defense authorization bill expressly prohibiting any funding for such a transfer?

It amazes me how often people ignore what has been done to prevent GITMO closure. Denying funding that would allow them to be tried on US soil. Denying the ability to acquire a detention facility to house them on US soil. Denying the ability to transfer them to any other country by adding incredibly prohibitive guarantees to any transfer...

And yet it's always "He could have just done it". No. He couldn't. He even issued an executive order to close it and that too was thwarted by ridiculous review requirements for every prisoner which just simply couldn't be met based on the time lines.

 

[fskimospy]

It amazes me how often people ignore what has been done to prevent GITMO closure. Denying funding that would allow them to be tried on US soil. Denying the ability to acquire a detention facility to house them on US soil. Denying the ability to transfer them to any other country by adding incredibly prohibitive guarantees to any transfer...

And yet it's always "He could have just done it". No. He couldn't. He even issued an executive order to close it and that too was thwarted by ridiculous review requirements for every prisoner which just simply couldn't be met based on the time lines.

That's why I ask about what specific actions people would have taken instead. Nobody actually has an answer, just a vague concept that he should have done. Should Obama have vetoed every defense authorization until gitmo was closed? Conservatives complain that in the midst of an economic crisis he focused on health care. Should he have focused on a prison during a much more acute phase of the same crisis?

If they think so that's fine, but they should be able to justify their answer.

 

[TerryMathews]

Should Obama have vetoed every defense authorization until gitmo was closed?

Yes. I would have supported him doing that.

And let's be very clear here. I liked Senator Obama. I voted for him. I didnt agree with him on every issue but I did appreciate the stands he was taking on torture, telecom immunity, and domestic spying.

I cannot stand President Obama. He is the exemplification of everything that is wrong with Washington: everything is for sale.

 

[Texashiker]

How would you go about doing that, considering there is language in every defense authorization bill expressly prohibiting any funding for such a transfer?

Isn't the president commander and chief of the military?

 

[jhbball]

Which democratic president did you blow to get ahead in life?


Or...

Was it all of them?

Speaking of failures. How's that temp job working out at age 40?

 

[rudeguy]

Speaking of failures. How's that temp job working out at age 40?

Guess I'll let you know in 5 years? But why would I have a temp in 5 years if I don't have one now?

 

[fskimospy]

Isn't the president commander and chief of the military?

So?

 

[fskimospy]

Yes. I would have supported him doing that.

And let's be very clear here. I liked Senator Obama. I voted for him. I didnt agree with him on every issue but I did appreciate the stands he was taking on torture, telecom immunity, and domestic spying.

I cannot stand President Obama. He is the exemplification of everything that is wrong with Washington: everything is for sale.

I agree that Obama has taken a terrible civil liberties turn on domestic surveillance. It is his single largest failing in my opinion. To be fair however, he has followed through on his ban of torture. (although I would have supported prosecution of those responsible for creating the policies)

All that aside, I never want to hear you complain about Obama passing health care instead of focusing on the economy. You are arguing that Obama should have ground military appropriations to a halt in the midst of the worst economic crisis in generations. Again if that's your stance that's fine, but pursuing that strategy would have had severe consequences.

 

[Incorruptible]

It amazes me how often people ignore what has been done to prevent GITMO closure. Denying funding that would allow them to be tried on US soil. Denying the ability to acquire a detention facility to house them on US soil. Denying the ability to transfer them to any other country by adding incredibly prohibitive guarantees to any transfer...

And yet it's always "He could have just done it". No. He couldn't. He even issued an executive order to close it and that too was thwarted by ridiculous review requirements for every prisoner which just simply couldn't be met based on the time lines.

Still shilling for obama, not surprised at all. The president said he would close Gitmo and he didn't, he campaigned as anti-war yet he is a warmonger. Do liberals ever call him out?