Hardwick is added to the list.

[jackstar7]

Don't be that guy jack.

I understand what you're saying, but my point originally was to explain how I approach things. I take responsibility for what I write and if I'm misunderstood, I own that it's on me to examine my language and come at it another way, especially with writing because it's entirely one-direction.

I guess it could be tangentially on topic in that this started from her written story of what happened and it's not like he could stop her story to point out inaccurate things or otherwise try to respond. He had to do that when it had been already consumed and digested. No one could respond mid-piece to ask for more clarity on what she was saying. It's a limitation of writing and a reason to laud good writers.

 

[realibrad]

That imperfection can be an excellent teacher.

As a side note, if you look at many of the very successful CEO out there, many have issues that they had to over come. There seems to be something that if people are born with an issue and learn to overcome, it teaches them things that help later on in life. Very interesting.

 

[realibrad]

Don't be that guy brad.

He follows me around calling me the quibbler. I think its fair to point out when he does the same. No?

 

[realibrad]

Because it's true that change occurs on many fronts. Right Fighters come in all shapes and sizes.

And sometimes bad things happen when people try to do good things. This is why we need reason and logic, and it seems illogical to turn the table rather than do something better.

 

[jackstar7]

And sometimes bad things happen when people try to do good things. This is why we need reason and logic, and it seems illogical to turn the table rather than do something better.

Logic says "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

Which is what I was saying here:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/hardwick-is-added-to-the-list.2548788/page-10#post-39518601

 

[Younigue]

He follows me around calling me the quibbler. I think its fair to point out when he does the same. No?

No.

 

[Younigue]

Logic says "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

Which is what I was saying here:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/hardwick-is-added-to-the-list.2548788/page-10#post-39518601

I've always hated that this is true but it is in fact true.

 

[Younigue]

And sometimes bad things happen when people try to do good things. This is why we need reason and logic, and it seems illogical to turn the table rather than do something better.

Until you can change all of humanity simultaneously we work with the mental tools evolution provides us. We're not where you want us to be brad.

 

[jackstar7]

Until you can change all of humanity simultaneously we work with the mental tools evolution provides us. We're not where you want us to be brad.

@realibrad
To put it another way:
Imagine you come across a building on fire, and you see there are people inside, and you're the only one who can do something about it.

Do you spend time trying to put out the fire by yourself? Or do you try to save whomever you can get out?

Because assault/abuse/etc are all still prevalent. The fire is real. Do your ambitions do anything to stop that? Or only make the fallout more palatable for you?

 

[realibrad]

Logic says "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

Which is what I was saying here:
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/hardwick-is-added-to-the-list.2548788/page-10#post-39518601

Logic does not say that. That can lead to some terrifying actions.

 

[realibrad]

No.

Oh come on now, I am allowed to be a little petty sometimes. Its the scarlet letter effect.

 

[jackstar7]

Logic does not say that. That can lead to some terrifying actions.

I guess you're right. It's morality that says that.

 

[realibrad]

Until you can change all of humanity simultaneously we work with the mental tools evolution provides us. We're not where you want us to be brad.

Wont change if we never try.

 

[realibrad]

I guess you're right. It's morality that says that.

No, not morality either. Killing anyone with an IQ of below 69 would be horrific and immoral, even though it would likely make society more productive. Deeply immoral and illogical.

 

[jackstar7]

No, not morality either. Killing anyone with an IQ of below 69 would be horrific and immoral, even though it would likely make society more productive. Deeply immoral and illogical.

Holy shit. Again with the blanket rules and shifting/ignoring context.

 

[realibrad]

@realibrad
To put it another way:
Imagine you come across a building on fire, and you see there are people inside, and you're the only one who can do something about it.

Do you spend time trying to put out the fire by yourself? Or do you try to save whomever you can get out?

Because assault/abuse/etc are all still prevalent. The fire is real. Do your ambitions do anything to stop that? Or only make the fallout more palatable for you?

First I look for options. If I can't think of anything better and I have to start right then, yeah, I pull out everyone I can.

In this case though, I see a better option and so I don't pull in others to save people inside.

To the details.

Being raped is horrible. Trying to prove you were raped makes it a little worse. Getting some justice makes it a lot better usually, but, it can never undo what has been done.

But, accepting the claim as a better alternative to dismissing it is horrible. Why is it that we cant expect evidence instead of assuming guilt?

 

[jackstar7]

Being raped is horrible. Trying to prove you were raped makes it a little worse. Getting some justice makes it a lot better usually, but, it can never undo what has been done.

But, accepting the claim as a better alternative to dismissing it is horrible. Why is it that we cant expect evidence instead of assuming guilt?

Firstly, don't try to quantify trauma. It is absurd.

Secondly, accepting the claim is a better alternative to dismissing it. It doesn't have to presume guilt any more than any other crime that's reported by a witness account. But most criminal allegations are not shared with the public. Should these kind of charges be suppressed until adjudicated by the justice system?

 

[realibrad]

Holy shit. Again with the blanket rules and shifting/ignoring context.

What rule?

 

[realibrad]

Firstly, don't try to quantify trauma. It is absurd.

Secondly, accepting the claim is a better alternative to dismissing it. It doesn't have to presume guilt any more than any other crime that's reported by a witness account. But most criminal allegations are not shared with the public. Should these kind of charges be suppressed until adjudicated by the justice system?

But that is the problem, is that it does not need to be accept or dismiss. Why are those the only two options?

 

[jackstar7]

But that is the problem, is that it does not need to be accept or dismiss. Why are those the only two options?

Sorry, when you report a crime to the police, they either accept the claim you are making or dismiss the claim you are making and then act accordingly.

They can't do neither nor both.

 

[jackstar7]

What rule?

That the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

Your personal philosophy must be complex.

 

[realibrad]

Sorry, when you report a crime to the police, they either accept the claim you are making or dismiss the claim you are making and then act accordingly.

They can't do neither nor both.

No, they either see it as something to investigate or do not. They do not accept it as true or false typically. Further, we were talking about society in general and I see no reason to not advocate for wanting evidence.

The reason I want evidence is acting accordingly may mean something as small as investigation and as far as killing.

For example, if a guy is covered in blood running a severed head and yelling at me that I'm next, investigating does not seem like the correct course of action.

In terms of rape, an investigation seems most appropriate and I no reason to see someone as guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Maxima1]

Some girls are into assholes or will find it acceptable if there's something else positive. She was a grown adult who weighed the pros and cons and decided the pros were enough to justify the relationship. Shee-it, he even flat-out told her he was an asshole from the very beginning.

 

[realibrad]

That the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

Your personal philosophy must be complex.

I'm confused, because, you were the one that purposed that rule.

And yes, my personal philosophy is complex. I think that is correct because when I have tried to generalize it breaks down quite easily well before the extremes. It can be a guide, but, not a rule.

Are you trying to advocate for that rule though?

 

[jackstar7]

I'm confused, because, you were the one that purposed that rule.

And yes, my personal philosophy is complex. I think that is correct because when I have tried to generalize it breaks down quite easily well before the extremes. It can be a guide, but, not a rule.

Are you trying to advocate for that rule though?

In this context. The context of victims not being marginalized or otherwise dismissed. Yes. I'd much prefer that being fully addressed before I fret about bad actors. You keep saying you can do both and we come right back to perfection is the enemy of the good.

You run in circles.