Handgun to beat

[sourceninja]

I wonder how many people are killed because the safety was on vs how many lives are saved when someone points a guy at a person they don't want to shoot and pull the trigger when the safety is on.

 

[rudeguy]

Only? Hah.. I paid $2 an hour in Tennessee

It's not bad and they keep things very safe. It's a fair price IMHO

 

[gorcorps]

It's not bad and they keep things very safe. It's a fair price IMHO

For how well it looks like they keep it the money is obviously going somewhere. It's definitely on the high side though. I think there's enough ranges in the area that if you don't want to pay that much you don't have to, but it may be worth the cost for some.

 

[corwin]

For how well it looks like they keep it the money is obviously going somewhere. It's definitely on the high side though. I think there's enough ranges in the area that if you don't want to pay that much you don't have to, but it may be worth the cost for some.

Lucky me I just joined my local gun club and for $75 a year get unlimited access to our range 15, 25, 50, and 100yd lanes plus a large field with 100, 200 and 300yd lines for some real distance shooting I stick to the shorter distance lanes since I don't hunt I can't think of a time I would need to hit something that far out...

As for the OP, I would say the XDm or a 1911...if you want the higher capacity you can get double stack 1911's in 9mm, .40, and .45 If you want something out of the ordinary (and you can find it) RIA has a 1911 that shoots 9mm and a new cartridge they just invented, .22 TCM (sort of looks like the FN 5.7) just by swapping the barrels (it comes with both) and it's under $600...that is if you can find them, I'm looking for one myself mostly for the 9mm option but having the other barrel could be fun

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This external safety thing is VERY overblown unless you practice on an xp/glock and then carry a 1911. If you get into the habit of flipping the safety off you will not forget it - or if you're the type to not be capable of remember to turn off the safety then you really shouldn't be carrying a firearm.


I have a p238 and love it. I like the 1911 style safety and that's all I use. FWIW I used to carry XD all the time.

 

[Texashiker]

Glock 19 vs. 1911 GO

Because the 1911 is over 100 years old and still respected by the firearms community.

No other pistol in the history of mankind can compare to the 1911, and probably never will.

 

[Jeeebus]

It's not bad and they keep things very safe. It's a fair price IMHO

It's about $10/hour in South Florida - of course, you occasionally have to deal with a guy blowing his brains out in the lane next to you... http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...ected-to-Gun-Range-Suicide-BSO-139155509.html

I go to that range every now and then. Would suck to witness something like that.

 

[jamesbond007]

OP, I don't know if you've already purchased a gun yet, but I bought a used H&K 9mm USP Compact for about the $550 range. It's 2001 model, but looked brand new (still does) when I bought it a couple years ago. Incredibly reliable, never had any chambering problems or smoke-stacks, and it shoots more accurately than I'll ever be.

Personally, I can't stand using Springfield or Glocks because of the way they feel in my hands. The grip of the USP seems to just work very well for me and I can shoot it more accurately than my FNP45 because of the grip. Another gun you could look at that I really like and have shot is the Sig P226R, used. Both guns are a few hundred dollars more new.

 

[Zargon]

Because the 1911 is over 100 years old and still respected by the firearms community.

No other pistol in the history of mankind can compare to the 1911, and probably never will.

wrong(1911 owners loving their gun != everyone) but not getting into that now, the 1911 is a good solid firearm




you can't go wrong with the glock, I loved my first gen 17 so much I bought a 4th gen 19

if you went used, a used 3rd gen 19 can be as cheap as 400 bucks depending on location

OP, I don't know if you've already purchased a gun yet, but I bought a used H&K 9mm USP Compact for about the $550 range. It's 2001 model, but looked brand new (still does) when I bought it a couple years ago. Incredibly reliable, never had any chambering problems or smoke-stacks, and it shoots more accurately than I'll ever be.

Personally, I can't stand using Springfield or Glocks because of the way they feel in my hands. The grip of the USP seems to just work very well for me and I can shoot it more accurately than my FNP45 because of the grip. Another gun you could look at that I really like and have shot is the Sig P226R, used. Both guns are a few hundred dollars more new.

solid point, he needs to hold one first, I can barely hold the giant grip on the USP which is why I don't have one

I couldnt stomach the 900 bucks for the Sig P229 either

 

[Texashiker]

you can't go wrong with the glock, I loved my first gen 17 so much I bought a 4th gen 19

Its personal preference.

Come back when your glock is 100 years old and still shootable.

 

[Zargon]

Its personal preference.

Come back when your glock is 100 years old and still shootable.

we all know you hate glocks. but thanks for leaving it at that.

 

[Pia]

1911 vs G19

A 1911 has two advantages over the G19, a much much better trigger and a bigger bullet. The G19 has more capacity, more reliable, easier to work on, and cheaper. A 1911 is going to be more accurate than a Glock but the Glock will be more accurate than you for quite some time.

I think it's fair to say most pistol owners are not, and will never be as accurate as an average Glock 19. Also, not all 1911s are accurate or have a good trigger. The worst trigger I have ever used was on a cheap 1911.

I personally want my competition/all-around pistol to be single action for a light trigger pull, therefore it has to have a manual thumb safety. But it is a fact manual safeties increase need for training, and increase chance of failure even with training. For instance, your thumb may accidentally engage the safety during recoil. Even if this never, ever happens to you in peaceful and controlled range conditions, emergency situations have a way of bringing these failures out. Something like 95% of pistols in police and military use have no manual safety. In light of statistics, manual safeties make the gun less safe. Even the slightest operator attention spent on the safety is not spent on more important things such as shoot/no-shoot.

 

[corwin]

I think it's fair to say most pistol owners are not, and will never be as accurate as an average Glock 19. Also, not all 1911s are accurate or have a good trigger. The worst trigger I have ever used was on a cheap 1911.

I personally want my competition/all-around pistol to be single action for a light trigger pull, therefore it has to have a manual thumb safety. But it is a fact manual safeties increase need for training, and increase chance of failure even with training. For instance, your thumb may accidentally engage the safety during recoil. Even if this never, ever happens to you in peaceful and controlled range conditions, emergency situations have a way of bringing these failures out. Something like 95% of pistols in police and military use have no manual safety. In light of statistics, manual safeties make the gun less safe. Even the slightest operator attention spent on the safety is not spent on more important things such as shoot/no-shoot.

Pretty sure the standard issue side arm in the military is still the M9

Manual safety right on the slide...and police issue is all over the map so nothing can really be said about what's "common" with them. A manual safety is not really an issue but I would be curious what statistics show them to make a gun less safe?

 

[KMc]

I too thought an XDm 3.8 was the hands down winner in my selection pool. But that all changed the day I shot it at the range along with an M&P9c. The S&W was by far the most comfortable, natural shooter for me. Honestly, I thought the Glock 19 was 3rd best of the 3.

 

[Texashiker]

Something like 95% of pistols in police and military use have no manual safety.

Do you have the slightest idea of what you are talking about?

1911 - 2 safeties

Beretta M9 - decocker, and the firing pin is rotated when the safety is on.

For the past 100 years the primary pistol of the US armed forces has had a safety. So "where" did you come up with this 95% number?

 

[alkemyst]

The CZ P01 is a really good choice to look at if you are looking to conceal carry and want to keep some accuracy and reliability.

The 1911 is probably the best out there in full size, however; it's size makes it hard to conceal even in single stacked arrangements which gives up a lot on capacity.

Also I am willing to bet most on this forum (and in general) would be a helluva lot more accurate in rapid shots with a +p or even +p+ 9mm round than a basic .44 ACP one.

I was seriously considering a 1911 and I have the size (200+lbs, 5'10") to reasonable conceal it with a sport coat/suit jacket...however the P01 has won me over.

It's the latest NATO service sidearm too. Read the reviews on it, esp the testing they have done.

Plus it's extremely reasonable at around $600.

 

[BladeVenom]

CZ P01 vs. 1911 Commander.

You can get thinner grips for the 1911.

If you want a smaller 1911 there's the officers model, even smaller is the Defender.

 

[Pia]

Do you have the slightest idea of what you are talking about?

1911 - 2 safeties

Beretta M9 - decocker, and the firing pin is rotated when the safety is on.

For the past 100 years the primary pistol of the US armed forces has had a safety. So "where" did you come up with this 95% number?

Upon reviewing current military pistols (I was never talking about US weapons specifically...) it looks like I was wrong and they actually have manual safeties most of the time, though a lot of newer designs opt to drop manual safeties.

The safety being present doesn't always affect the gun's operation in practice though. The standard carrying procedure of many organizations and individuals is uncocked; a number of guns cannot be manually safetied while uncocked, so carrying them uncocked makes them largely indistinguishable from a pistol without a manual safety.

Police pistols have fewer manual safeties. I believe this is due to them using more modern guns in general, and also due to different requirements and role of the weapon. Civilian requirements are much more aligned with the requirements of the police than those of the military.

 

[alkemyst]

CZ P01 vs. 1911 Commander.

You can get thinner grips for the 1911.

If you want a smaller 1911 there's the officers model, even smaller is the Defender.

Thinner grips is not going to help a double-stacked 44.

going single stack you give up a lot of capacity.

The main issue especially with a compact 1911, is many aren't going to be that accurate with them and most will not like to shoot them a lot.

I was pro-1911 for a long time and I still believe if one is going to carry a full-sized handgun then the 1911 should be at the top of their list.

However, IMHO the CZ P01 is an EXTREMELY good choice for a gun you'd depend with your life.

This will be the gun I will be going with. I may still pick up a nice 1911.

Again my criteria is a reliable gun with decent capacity that can be conceal carried when needed without a lot of drama. Also being able to fire 'bursts' accurately.

If I have to fire on someone, I plan on no less than putting 3 rounds at a time into them. With a 7 round compact, that leaves me about one miss. With 15 rounds, I have a lot more room for error.

Firing at the range is a lot different than firing while you and/or them may be moving, in the dark and in the stress of a true dangerous situation.

even with overall proportions the same, that double-stacked 44 is a lot thicker than any double stacked 9mm.

 

[JulesMaximus]

A gun only goes boom when you pull the trigger. A Glock has 3 safeties that make it impossible for it to fire unless you pull the trigger. External safeties will only slow you down when you need to be moving fast.

Check out how a Glock works, especially the safety part of the animation:
http://www.genitron.com/Basics/Glock23/P2Glock.html

I'm partial to Glock, that's no secret. But I had an XD that I couldn't wait to sell. The coating was wearing off after only a couple weeks.

The 19 is Glock's compact 9. Its often forgot about because the 17 is the most popular and its full sized. Most people go right from that to the 26 (which I love). But the 19 is right in the middle. I really want a 19 because it has an accessory rail for a flashlight/laser/zombie whistle.

Agreed. I have a Glock 17 I've owned since 1994 and it still looks brand new and I've taken it to the range, had it in and out of holsters, left magazines fully loaded for months, even years, and put thousands and thousands of rounds through it. I can't recall it ever jamming on me, not even once.

The only thing I've heard is that some police officers have had issues using them as duty weapons specifically with unintentional discharges while trying to holster the gun without removing their finger from the trigger area but you could do that with any gun if you aren't paying attention and holster it without putting the safety on.

I would like to pick up a Sig-Sauer chambered in .45 ACP one of these days but I'll never get rid of my Glock.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Thinner grips is not going to help a double-stacked 44.

going single stack you give up a lot of capacity.

The main issue especially with a compact 1911, is many aren't going to be that accurate with them and most will not like to shoot them a lot.

I was pro-1911 for a long time and I still believe if one is going to carry a full-sized handgun then the 1911 should be at the top of their list.

However, IMHO the CZ P01 is an EXTREMELY good choice for a gun you'd depend with your life.

This will be the gun I will be going with. I may still pick up a nice 1911.

Again my criteria is a reliable gun with decent capacity that can be conceal carried when needed without a lot of drama. Also being able to fire 'bursts' accurately.

If I have to fire on someone, I plan on no less than putting 3 rounds at a time into them. With a 7 round compact, that leaves me about one miss. With 15 rounds, I have a lot more room for error.

Firing at the range is a lot different than firing while you and/or them may be moving, in the dark and in the stress of a true dangerous situation.

even with overall proportions the same, that double-stacked 44 is a lot thicker than any double stacked 9mm.

I have a Colt Officer's Model I've owned for almost 2 decades. Put a lot of rounds through it over the years with little fuss. It isn't that punishing to shoot and accuracy isn't bad for such a short barrel, much better than any snub nose revolver I've shot and less punishing too.

I like the 1911 style guns, I own 2 of them so that says something. Wouldn't mind picking up a Wilsons Combat or maybe a Kimber one of these days.

One thing I will suggest to anyone buying a 1911 of any kind, buy only the Wilsons Magazines for them. They are well worth the money and dead reliable.

 

[highland145]

The only thing I've heard is that some police officers have had issues using them as duty weapons specifically with unintentional discharges while trying to holster the gun without removing their finger from the trigger area but you could do that with any gun if you aren't paying attention and holster it without putting the safety on.

Expected. Sounds like the need more training.

 

[Jeeebus]

only thing keeping me from 'pulling the trigger' on buying a Walther PPS as a second home defense/carry gun is the lack of $500 to do so.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

1911 vs G19

A 1911 has two advantages over the G19, a much much better trigger and a bigger bullet. The G19 has more capacity, more reliable, easier to work on, and cheaper. A 1911 is going to be more accurate than a Glock but the Glock will be more accurate than you for quite some time.

Glocks take some getting used to i think. I've had a G19 and a G23 and got rid of both. The grip is like a 2x4, and the angle is not natural, though the grip angle slightly forces you to hold the gun in a way to keep you from limp wristing it.

This external safety thing is VERY overblown unless you practice on an xp/glock and then carry a 1911. If you get into the habit of flipping the safety off you will not forget it - or if you're the type to not be capable of remember to turn off the safety then you really shouldn't be carrying a firearm.


I have a p238 and love it. I like the 1911 style safety and that's all I use. FWIW I used to carry XD all the time.

When it comes to external safeties, frame mounted flip down safeties are by far the best as you can disengage them while gripping the gun. Slide mounted safeties require more manipulation and increase chances of fumbling to disengage the safety.
That being said, the Beretta 92 series is one sweet gun.

wrong(1911 owners loving their gun != everyone) but not getting into that now, the 1911 is a good solid firearm




you can't go wrong with the glock, I loved my first gen 17 so much I bought a 4th gen 19

if you went used, a used 3rd gen 19 can be as cheap as 400 bucks depending on location

solid point, he needs to hold one first, I can barely hold the giant grip on the USP which is why I don't have one

I couldnt stomach the 900 bucks for the Sig P229 either

Yes you can go wrong with a Glock. Like I said, I had 2 and they weren't for me. the trigger is meh.
for $400 he can get a new Sig P2022. They are DA/SA polymer with interchangable back straps to fit your hand.
The USP is a bit large, but if you can afford to go with the P2000 or P30 as they have interchangable back straps as well.

Also don't discount a good wheelgun for HD. a 4" Ruger Service Six or GP100 in .357 is a great gun with lots of omph.

 

[amddude]

glock 19