Hamas and Fatah agree to reunite.

[TastesLikeChicken]

One of the members did say one thing that I do agree with.......Palestine was taken over by war......that's better than saying "God gave it to us", God is not in the real state business..........however, what now makes the Zionist Israelis "brave" is their weapons and not their courage......as proven in WWII.

Israel battled numerous Arab aggressors over the years and, frankly, in the early years were overmatched. That wasn't about weapons, that was about courage and determination. Israel sent their attackers packing with decisive victories. They held their ground and earned their country in the process. The Palestinians, otoh, have tried various tactics, many dubious, and have failed in the process.

The Palestinians have also been offered the choice of a State of their own over the years and have made the extremely poor decision, for one obstinate reason or another, not to accept that State. Now, in hindsight, they are willing to take what had once been offered to them without the process of war or militant reactions.

It's too late now. The Palestinians have thrown away chance after chance and subsequently acted militantly because they made poor decisions. They best suck it up, take what they can still get, and move on before it all completely disappears because they honestly are in no real position to bargain at this point.

 

[kylebisme]

The Palestinians have also been offered the choice of a State of their own over the years and have made the extremely poor decision, for one obstinate reason or another, not to accept that State.

Palestinians declared statehood decades ago:

The 1988 declaration was approved at a meeting in Algiers, by a vote of 253-46, with 10 abstentions. The declaration invoked the Treaty of Lausanne (1923) and UN General Assembly Resolution 181 in support of its claim to a "State of Palestine on our Palestinian territory with its capital Jerusalem". The proclaimed state of Palestine was recognized immediately by the Arab League, and about half the world's governments recognize it today. It maintains embassies in many of these countries and special or general delegations in others. Palestine is also an Observer Member in the United Nations.

Those of you in denial of that fact are the ones being obstinate here.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I told him "Well, the state of Israel is in Palestine".

It`s not quite that simple....
First of all there is no Palestinian people...persay....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_people

The history of a distinct Palestinian national identity is a disputed issue amongst scholars.[19] The prevailing view is that Palestinian identity orginated in the early decades of the twentieth century.[19] The first widespread use of "Palestinian" as an endonym to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the Arabs of Palestine began prior to the outbreak of World War I[20] The first demand for national independence was issued by the joint Syrian-Palestinian Congress on 21 September 1921.[21] After the creation of the State of Israel, the exodus of 1948, and more so after the exodus of 1967, the term came to signify not only a place of origin, but the sense of a shared past and future in the form of a Palestinian state.[20] Founded in 1964, the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) is an umbrella organization for groups that represent the Palestinian people before the international community.[22] The Palestinian National Authority, officially established as a result of the Oslo Accords, is an interim administrative body nominally responsible for governance in Palestinian population centers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.



Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين‎, filastin),[2][Need quotation to verify][1] officially declared as the State of Palestine (Arabic: دولة فلسطين‎, dawlat filastin)[3] is a state that was proclaimed in exile in Algiers on 15 November 1988, when the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) National Council (PNC) adopted the unilateral Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

At the time of the 1988 declaration, the PLO did not exercise control over any territory,[4] and its claimed territory remains under Israeli occupation.[5][6] It claims the Palestinian territories[3] and has designated Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine,[1][2] despite Israeli control.

The State of Palestine is quite widely recognised by states, although often in equivocal terms.[7] Some countries recognized the state of Palestine, while other countries announced they welcomed this step without explicitly declaring recognition. Many of the countries that don't recognize the State of Palestine nevertheless recognise the PLO as the "representative of the Palestinian people". In addition the PLO executive committee is empowered by the PNC to perform the functions of government of the State of Palestine.[8]

On 28 October 1974, the 1974 Arab League summit held in Rabat designated the PLO as the "sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and reaffirmed their right to establish an independent state of urgency."[9] The PLO has had observer status at the United Nations as a "non-state entity" since 22 November 1974,[10][11] which entitles it to speak in the UN General Assembly but not to vote. In the list of "non-member states and entities", the PLO is categorized under "Other entities having received a standing invitation to participate as observers in the sessions and the work of the General Assembly and are maintaining permanent offices at Headquarters".[12] After the Declaration of Independence the United Nations General Assembly officially "acknowledged" the proclamation and voted to use the designation "Palestine" instead of "Palestine Liberation Organization" when referring to the Palestinian permanent observer.[13][14][15] In spite of this decision, the PLO does not participate at the UN in its capacity of the State of Palestine's government.[16] Since 1998, the PLO is arranged for seating in the United Nations General Assembly immediately after non-member States, and before all other observers.[17][18]

In 1993, in the Oslo Accords, Israel acknowledged the PLO negotiating team as "representing the Palestinian people", in return for the PLO recognizing Israel's right to exist in peace, acceptance of UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, and its rejection of "violence and terrorism".[19] While Israel currently occupies the Palestinian territories,[j] as a result of the Oslo Accords it allowed the PLO to establish an interim administrative body: the Palestinian National Authority (PNA or PA), that exercises some governmental functions in parts of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.[20] The PNA was made accountable to the PLO Executive Committee, and the PLO is the ultimate authority of the PNA. No reference is made in the Accords to the 1988 declaration of the State of Palestine.

The State of Palestine consists of the following institutions:

President of the State of Palestine[21] — title assumed by the Chairman of the Palestine Liberation Organization,[22]
Palestinian National Council — the legislature that established the State of Palestine,[3]
Executive Committee of the Palestine Liberation Organization — performs the functions of a government in exile,[23][24] maintaining an extensive foreign relations network.
These should be distinguished from the following institutions, which are instead associated with the Palestinian National Authority: President of the Palestinian National Authority, Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), PNA Cabinet.

The State of Palestine founding document is the Palestinian Declaration of Independence,[3] and it should be distinguished from the unrelated PLO Palestinian National Covenant and PNA Palestine Basic Law.

"Palestine" is officially used as short form reference to the State of Palestine,[2] but this should be distinguished from the homonymous usage of the reference for the PNA,[1] the PLO as UN observer entity,[13] the Palestine as region or territory, and the other ideas about establishment of and proposals for a Palestinian state.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So if we wanted to kick Iraqis out of their country and take it over for ourselves, there'd be nothing wrong with that, eh?

Thats idiotic.....
If Iraq attacked us heaven forbid and in the process of defending ourselves we just so happened to occupy Iraqi land then spoils go to the victor....

 

[Lemon law]

Where the hell does this notion come from that a conquered nation loses it identity or belongs to another Country.

How many times was Vietnam as a country taken over? The same thing can be asked about Finland and Estonia, yet if you looked an a map a thousand years old, many countries countless times taken over are still on the map today.

But if we want to believe the conquered people's lose all claims theory, the Jews lost all Israeli claims when the Roman's kicked them out in the second century AD.

Then we ignore the UN founding core principle, land gained by conquest is no longer illegitimate.

 

[Abwx]

But if we want to believe the conquered people's lose all claims theory, the Jews lost all Israeli claims when the Roman's kicked them out in the second century AD.

.

They weren t kicked out, it was economic immigration
mainly to Rome..!!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Roman_Empire

 

[wwswimming]

One of the members did say one thing that I do agree with.......Palestine was taken over by war

nice to see that some AT members have taken time off from Sandy Bridge to learn some history !

Dude. Do you realize that Palestine was a conquest of war? It wasn't simply "taken over."

the way that it worked was, the Israel project was a long time in the planning.

3 terrorist organizations - the Stern Gang, Irgun, and Haganah spent the years from 1935 to 1948 in a one-sided effort to terrorize Palestinian civilians - to drive them off the land.

then in 1948, Israel, with the backing of the US and England, destroyed 400 Palestinian villages. Palestine is documented at
http://www.PalestineRemembered.com/

to imply that it was a war is quite in-accurate. if you want to see a fair fight, let's give the Palestinians .50 caliber rifles, so they can defend their homes.

but the Israeli's don't want a fair fight.


the Israeli Terrorists even tried to stage some false flag attacks to turn public opinion against the Arabs.

the attack on the King David Hotel, for example - Israeli Jews killed 91 civilians, many of them British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

that was done by Irgun - the same group Rahm Emanuel's father belonged to. to be clear, Rahm Emanuel's father is a retired terrorist. however, he got a get-out-of-jail-free card, and settled in the Chicago area, where he became a pediatrician.


so ... if you're a Jewish terrorist, you can come to the US and raise a family.

if you're a Muslim terrorist, you get the Predator Drone treatment.

some people see the double standard. but you will rarely hear about the double standard in an American school.

 

[nick1985]

Do you want Israel wiped off the map?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Palestinians declared statehood decades ago:

Those of you in denial of that fact are the ones being obstinate here.

Nice attempt at a slight of hand. You ommitted this part:

"Currently, the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), along with the United States, the European Union, and the Arab League, envision the establishment of a State of Palestine to include all or part of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem, living in peace with Israel under a democratically elected and transparent government. The PNA, however, does not claim sovereignty over any territory and therefore is not the government of the State of Palestine proclaimed in 1988."

What a joke. 'We'll declare ourselves a State, but we won't accept any responsbility for that State and we won't goven that State.' That's about as concrete as a BitBoys video card.

Let me know when they officially claim Statehood and then actually accept the burdens that goes along with such a declaration. K? Thnxbye.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

nice to see that some AT members have taken time off from Sandy Bridge to learn some history !




the way that it worked was, the Israel project was a long time in the planning.

3 terrorist organizations - the Stern Gang, Irgun, and Haganah spent the years from 1935 to 1948 in a one-sided effort to terrorize Palestinian civilians - to drive them off the land.

then in 1948, Israel, with the backing of the US and England, destroyed 400 Palestinian villages. Palestine is documented at
http://www.PalestineRemembered.com/

to imply that it was a war is quite in-accurate. if you want to see a fair fight, let's give the Palestinians .50 caliber rifles, so they can defend their homes.

but the Israeli's don't want a fair fight.


the Israeli Terrorists even tried to stage some false flag attacks to turn public opinion against the Arabs.

the attack on the King David Hotel, for example - Israeli Jews killed 91 civilians, many of them British.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

that was done by Irgun - the same group Rahm Emanuel's father belonged to. to be clear, Rahm Emanuel's father is a retired terrorist. however, he got a get-out-of-jail-free card, and settled in the Chicago area, where he became a pediatrician.


so ... if you're a Jewish terrorist, you can come to the US and raise a family.

if you're a Muslim terrorist, you get the Predator Drone treatment.

some people see the double standard. but you will rarely hear about the double standard in an American school.

The terrorism goes back far longer than that and is not nearly so one-sided as you try to make it to be. For some reason you left out all the Palestinian attacks on the Jews in your little revisionist history lesson above. Any particular reason for that?

 

[Freshgeardude]

The terrorism goes back far longer than that and is not nearly so one-sided as you try to make it to be. For some reason you left out all the Palestinian attacks on the Jews in your little revisionist history lesson above. Any particular reason for that?

this.


Revisionist history.


Clearly, a group called Hagansh, meaning DEFENSE in hebrew, was created to terrorize the natives.

There is no such thing as a palestinian. It was a stupid term coined after 1967u when they realized they couldn't get their home back.

 

[Ponce]

For as long as the Zionist Israelis are in Palestine they will NEVER find peace and will live in a state of alert while sleeping with a gun by their side...... Usually I would say that Jews are not persecuted for their religion but rather for the way that they act as Jews but in this case the Zionists are not even Jews but rather Khazar-European-Zionist wanabe "Jews" who have nothing to do with the Jews of the Bible.

About fighting and "defeating" the Arabs.....you should know by now that the Arabs were winning that war when the president of the US told them to back down and it was when the Arabs were retreating that the Zionist attaked them and won the "war".

 

[EagleKeeper]

<snip>

About fighting and "defeating" the Arabs.....you should know by now that the Arabs were winning that war when the president of the US told them to back down and it was when the Arabs were retreating that the Zionist attaked them and won the "war".

Which conflict and where did you get such info from?

 

[Lemon law]

Do you want Israel wiped off the map?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Nick1985 asks the right question, but even then we have to ask what map. There are 1948 borders and the borders of 1973, but most all nations now agree, The borders of 1967 is an acceptable for almost everyone Compromise.

But until the Palestinians get a Palestinian State, Israel will always be the Arab Neighbor from hell, and in the fullness of time there is no way Israel can maintain its present military hegemony. And just given the weight or Arab numbers and oil wealth, they will be certainly finally get their population pushed into the sea. Worse yet for Israel, in the past decade, Israel has alienated the whole world simply because its become the greatest threat to mid-east stability as it engages in collective punishment and regional paranoia. But still at the present time, Israel and its AIPAC may be able to count on the USA to save its butt. But that remaining US support time may be limited, as Netanyuhu and his crazed settler parties refuse to give up control of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem already vast world majority conceded as parts of a needed Palestinian State.

So now I ask Nick1985 to look at it this way, if Israel wants to retain control of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem, its likely that Israeli will not even end up retaining the majority of its the 1948 borders if the UN are the deciders. And if Israel get on with supporting a Palestinians State now before 9/2011, Israel can get a good part of the Olmert agreed peace plan. And secure the end of terrorism and even make Arab Friendships. Plus Israel can get world guarantees of present and future Israeli borders, which would put the fear of God into any conqueror that even thought they could get away with it.

Or we can look at it another way, in the entire history of the world, no small nation such as Israel has been able to secure its borders by solely military means for long. But countless small nations have lasted thousands of years by making peace with their regional neighbors. As it is now, Israel has an excellent opportunity to make friends, because for now it also has regional military hegemony.

In short Nick1985, the Bozo Netanyuhu plan will CERTAINLY lead to inevitable Israeli long term disaster. Allowing a Palestinian State gives Israel an excellent chance of making peace with all of its neighbors and a corresponding excellent chance of long long term survival as a regional technological asset.

And in closing I should mention that other possible Israeli fate which actually already happened to that other apartheid State of South Africa. Because then the world demand may come that the greater present Israeli State assimilate its Palestinians with full voting rights. Sure the Israeli State would still remain, but Jews would become a minority voting block in a secular Israeli State.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

For as long as the Zionist Israelis are in Palestine they will NEVER find peace and will live in a state of alert while sleeping with a gun by their side...... Usually I would say that Jews are not persecuted for their religion but rather for the way that they act as Jews but in this case the Zionists are not even Jews but rather Khazar-European-Zionist wanabe "Jews" who have nothing to do with the Jews of the Bible.

That sounds like it came right out of the Friends of Hamas Radical Propaganda Talking Points Memo.

About fighting and "defeating" the Arabs.....you should know by now that the Arabs were winning that war when the president of the US told them to back down and it was when the Arabs were retreating that the Zionist attaked them and won the "war".

Proof of this statement please.

 

[Ponce]

Chicken and Curtesy..........thank you for your response and questions......about the war, I read it long ago in many different places but now days is very hard to find, I'll try to find it for both of you, sorry not to have it at hand right now.

About the Khazard..... you should know that they were from Central Asia and the kingdom had at one side the Christians and on the other side the Muslims, they didn't want to fight neither one so that they imported some rabis from the Middle East and became "Jews".....after they were defeated they went to Northern Russia and Poland, in 1872 a Khazar "Jew" by the name of Herzl came up with the idea of all "Jews" having their own country........after lookin in many places, which included Uganda in Afrida, and with the help of first Herr Hitler and then the British with the Belfour declaration they started to go into Palestine.......Lawrance of Arabia was so pissed off about this that he quit the army.

You all should know by now about the Belfour declaration and also that the Zionist (Jews) were the founders of the Communist party after killing the Csar or Russia in 1913 and that 4 of the 5 first Poliburo members were Zionist (Jews) and that out of the 365 Commisars 285 of them were Zionist with 165 of them from America and that the secret police were all Zionist and on and on and on.......is all mater of history and easy to find just about anywhere in the WWW.

Everythng that I repeat is only because I have been able to find the evidence in many different places...........but remember this about you and me, we believe only that which we choose to believe.....and part of my belief is for what I see that the Zionist (Jews) are doing to the Palestinian people and by stealing their land and destroying their home and olive trees........also for the oil on their land, something that not many people talk about.

 

[Lemon law]

As various historical facts and contentions are traded to justify the unjustifiable recent history of Israel v the Arabs v the Palestinians, maybe its time for the rational to take a short puke break, the throw up our hands and say, we have nothing but enough past wrongs on all sides to gag every maggot on the planet many times.

As the basic reasoning used by all sides, is that if I can prove my enemy was wrong, it will elevate and cleanses my side's past misbehavior as morally right. But that reasoning gets us all nowhere, as we cannot change the rotten past.

Which is why I look to the future, and the last remaining moves, as the entire world moves to a final run up to a Palestinian state by 9/2011. Its only the future that matters, but in a very long chess match, the Bozo Netanyuhu strategy seems to be an Heading to Israeli disaster as Netanyuhu is seeming only grasping at straws. But in any chess game still not settled, there are still remaining interim moves before the final outcome is certain.

And its exactly those few remaining moves those interested in Israeli Palestinian issues should be paying attention to.

The latest Israeli blunder IMHO, is Israeli with holding tax revenues it collects from the Palestinians. In an tax agreement dating back to the Oslo accords, the new world position in the UN may be to allow the Palestinians to collect their own taxes because Israel can no longer be trusted. Obama has already stated he does not like the Israeli move, and could soon vote to prevent that Israeli bullshit when the position soon makes it to the UN.

 

[Abwx]

Where the hell does this notion come from that a conquered nation loses it identity or belongs to another Country.

.

That comes from USA being built on native indians
genocide and theft of their land....
Zionists are exactly on the same credo...

 

[Abwx]

Which conflict and where did you get such info from?

1973 war...

Fact is that the US pressed for a cease fire, but the israeli
kept fighting past the agreed moment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

1973 war...

Fact is that the US pressed for a cease fire, but the israeli
kept fighting past the agreed moment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

How pathetic. It's amazing the number of facts about a situation that people like you absolutely ignore in order to try and point fingers at Israel.

Egypt attempted a surprise attack on an Israeli holiday. They ended up getting their ass kicked and deserved much worse than what they got for the shit they pulled. They were fortunate Israel pulled back when it did.

The link doesn't back up a thing that Ponce claimed either.

 

[Freshgeardude]

1973 war...

Fact is that the US pressed for a cease fire, but the israeli
kept fighting past the agreed moment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

oh, how the arab world is SOOO lucky the US got involved.


Israel realized they were closer than ever before to defeat in the the war and intentionally brought out 13 nuclear warheads to be "accidentally" noticed by US spy satellites.

the next day, the US declared Operation Nickel Grass, basically a mission to resupply Israel with all their military equipment.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War#Aid_to_Israel

During the night of 8&#8211;9 October, an alarmed Dayan told Meir that "this is the end of the third temple."[197] He was warning of Israel's impending total defeat, but "Temple" was also the code word for nuclear weapons.[198] Dayan again raised the nuclear topic in a cabinet meeting, warning that the country was approaching a point of "last resort."[200] That night Meir authorized the assembly of thirteen 20-kiloton-of-TNT (84 TJ) tactical atomic weapons for Jericho missiles at Hirbat Zachariah, and F-4 aircraft at Tel Nof, for use against Syrian and Egyptian targets.[198] They would be used if absolutely necessary to prevent total defeat, but the preparation was done in an easily detectable way, likely as a signal to the United States.[200] Kissinger learned of the nuclear alert on the morning of October 9. That day, President Nixon ordered the commencement of Operation Nickel Grass, an American airlift to replace all of Israel's material losses.[201] Anecdotal evidence suggests that Kissinger told Sadat that the reason for the U.S. airlift was that the Israelis were close to "going nuclear."[198]

The nuclear option would definitely be legal. Israel clearly didnt start the war and was close to losing.


I wonder if Iran would be messing with israel today if they ever used a nuclear bomb.


If the US didnt get involved then, Cairo and Damascus would be glass today.


oh how it would change ME politics.

 

[Ponce]

I really, really , hate to say this.......it would be better if there was a general war where 9 millions Arabs were killed but only as long as there was no more state of Israel, I say it would be better because later on instead of 9 millions there will be 90 millions............the only bropblem is that the state of Israel has bought land all around the world like in Patagonia in Argentina and in the Island south of Australia where they are now in control.......The Zionist Israelis no longer need the state of Israel because now they have the control of the US........in a way I am glad that I am old and will not live to see the flag of the state of Israel fly alongside the one of the US above the White House........USRael.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I really, really , hate to say this.......it would be better if there was a general war where 9 millions Arabs were killed but only as long as there was no more state of Israel, I say it would be better because later on instead of 9 millions there will be 90 millions............the only bropblem is that the state of Israel has bought land all around the world like in Patagonia in Argentina and in the Island south of Australia where they are now in control.......The Zionist Israelis no longer need the state of Israel because now they have the control of the US........in a way I am glad that I am old and will not live to see the flag of the state of Israel fly alongside the one of the US above the White House........USRael.

troll.

 

[Karl Agathon]

oh, how the arab world is SOOO lucky the US got involved.


Israel realized they were closer than ever before to defeat in the the war and intentionally brought out 13 nuclear warheads to be "accidentally" noticed by US spy satellites.

the next day, the US declared Operation Nickel Grass, basically a mission to resupply Israel with all their military equipment.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War#Aid_to_Israel




The nuclear option would definitely be legal. Israel clearly didnt start the war and was close to losing.


I wonder if Iran would be messing with israel today if they ever used a nuclear bomb.


If the US didnt get involved then, Cairo and Damascus would be glass today.


oh how it would change ME politics.

Also glad that the israelis have second strike nuclear capability too. This way, if some of those animals ever dare to think nothing will happen to them and launch a first strike, they will also be destroyed.

 

[Karl Agathon]

troll.

Beat me too it, an obvious troll.