Hamas and Fatah agree to reunite.

[Lemon law]

IMHO, the Common Courtesy understanding shows only his own ignorance of the situation.

1. To cite Ismail Haniyeh, former prime minister of the Hamas government in the Gaza as the current spokesman for Hamas is prime ignorance on the face of it. The fact is and remains, there were factions inside of Hamas who opposed any Fatah reunification deal and Haniyeh was one of them. But the majority of Hamas signed up for the reunification meaning Haniyeh now is in the out of power Hamas minority. In short, to say Haniyeh speaks for Hamas is about as accurate as saying either Rush Limbaugh or Dennis Kucinish speaks for the united voice of the USA, and even that is a best case scenario.

2. Then if Common Courtesy has not totally discredited himself by now, he rises to new heights of ignorance in not understanding anything about Osama's Wahabist religious beliefs regarding the Shia Muslims and Iran. In short, Ossama Bin Laden is a Sunni Muslim blood enemy of Iran and the Shia's in Iran. And given that both Hamas and Hezbollah are Iranian proxies meant Ossma Bin Laden was never on the side of Hamas, so its theater of the absurd when the out of power Haniyeh sings the praises of his former blood enemy. In short, its just a sign of the desperation of Haniyeh and nothing more.

3. The fact that the former Iranian proxy in Hamas and still Hezbollah Iranian proxy in Lebanon carried the bulk of Israeli Muslim opposition does much to explain why Al-Quida was not very active in Israel.

 

[EagleKeeper]

LL - you seems to again be selective with your facts.

Ismail Haniyeh is prime minister of Hamas.
IF you can provide links otherwise; then do so and I will leave Palestine threads alone until September; IF you can not provide such links; take your selective/false facts out of P&N until September. Agreed?

AQ influence w/ respect to Palestinians is not being discussed. What is being discussed is how the proclamation of Hamas sitting down to break bread with Fatah is continually showing to be overhyped by supporters of the Palestinians and is being overblown by the internal politics of the Palestinian groups. As such without one UNIFIED voice; their chances of the statehood is diminishing.

What sounded good on the Egyptian news release has been continually shredded by announcements from Hamas. Without any lists of who in Hamas was at the Egyptian kiss&make up meetings; one can not tell how much was actually a wishful announcement vs factual. IF Hamas was serious; what are they accomplishing by trying to shred the agreement - power shift away from Fatah?

 

[Abwx]

LL - you seems to again be selective with your facts.

Ismail Haniyeh is prime minister of Hamas.
.
IF Hamas was serious; what are they accomplishing by trying to shred the agreement - power shift away from Fatah?

He is prime minister.Period.

Abbas mandate expired long ago and he remained in charge
thanks to an israeli/western supported state coup...

Indeed, he s no more than a subcontractor of the israeli
occupation nazis...

 

[Fern]

-snip-
What sounded good on the Egyptian news release has been continually shredded by announcements from Hamas. Without any lists of who in Hamas was at the Egyptian kiss&make up meetings; one can not tell how much was actually a wishful announcement vs factual. IF Hamas was serious; what are they accomplishing by trying to shred the agreement - power shift away from Fatah?

Yeah. And I've been doubting this "deal" right from the start (hence my post #15).

Fern

 

[Lemon law]

Again most of the Common Courtesy delusions are contained on one paragraph. Namely---

". What is being discussed is how the proclamation of Hamas sitting down to break bread with Fatah is continually showing to be overhyped by supporters of the Palestinians and is being overblown by the internal politics of the Palestinian groups. the proclamation of Hamas sitting down to break bread with Fatah is continually showing to be overhyped by supporters of the Palestinians and is being overblown by the internal politics of the Palestinian groups. the proclamation of Hamas sitting down to break bread with Fatah is continually showing to be overhyped by supporters of the Palestinians and is being overblown by the internal politics of the Palestinian groups. As such without one UNIFIED voice; their chances of the statehood is diminishing."

1. To start out with you say, if the "AQ influence w/ respect to Palestinians is not being discussed", why did you, Common Courtesy, discuss that very thing when you used the Haniyeh statement to make your point?

2.Then you go on to say without the greater test of time, "the proclamation of Hamas sitting down to break bread with Fatah is continually showing to be overhyped by supporters of the Palestinians and is being overblown by the internal politics of the Palestinian groups."

Which seems, IMHO, to be a rather self serving and ill thought out statement, especially with all the external and related events which fall under the broad categories of the Arab spring and the Obama statement of a Palestinian State by 9/2011. But just mere days after the announcement of a Hamas Fatah unity deal, you Common Courtesy seem to be rushing to proclaim the Hamas Fatah deal is a total phony because there are some
Hamas dissenting voices. But would not it be more valid to wait some time to see what becomes the new Hamas policy regarding the use of violence against the State of Israel becomes? If we now get a great reduction in the number of rockets fired from Gaza into Israel, that and only that is the acid test of what the new Hamas governing policy will be.

3.Then Common Courtesy makes another self serving but partially correct statement in,
" As such without one UNIFIED voice; their chances of the statehood is diminishing."
To start out with its always been that Israeli propaganda position to say, without a united voice, Israel will ignore the human rights of 3 million Palestinians. And now that the Pals reunite, and in so doing speak with one voice, Common Courtesy ignores the fact by his own Statement, now that the Pals speak with one voice, their chance of Statehood is increasing.

So all Common Courtesy is doing, is trying without any test of time validity, is to prove the reunification is phony on scanty and fragmentary evidence. In short, BFD, Israel is not united either and its likely Netanyuhu's Government may fall as the distance Netanyuhu has to straddle becomes too wide to be possible. And the Pals are damned if they reunite and damned if they don't according to Israeli propaganda.

4. Then there is something Common Courtesy totally ignores, in seemingly assuming Palestinian Statehood is solely an Israeli decision. When in fact, after 44 years of Israeli delay and stalling, the larger world will likely no longer permit Israeli control of the disputed territories simply because of Israeli past and present abuse. But in the grander scheme of things, any Fatah Hamas reunification is just only one of many cards that will be played in the run up to 9/2011. Meanwhile both Israeli and Palestinian behavior are on world probation.

 

[Lemon law]

As the new abwx delusion of "Ismail Haniyeh is prime minister of Hamas." may become a matter of semantics and verb tense.

Because we may be able to State in the past that any given poobah held a given
government position, but it may turn out in the future that Haniyeh WAS the PM of Hamas, and now no longer holds that position.

In short, abwx, you vainly assume times never change in a world where change is the one thing that is inevitable.

 

[werepossum]

I presume this is great news for the USA since, after Hamas condemned the death of Usama Bin Laden as the "assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior", not even the most insane, batshit, ankle-biting, foamiest Jew-hating mouth breather could possibly argue that the United States or indeed any Western or honorable non-Western power should give one plugged nickle or one faint word of condemnation as praise to support Hamas and the Palestinians who elected them, correct? I mean, this issue HAS to be over, no more support for Hamas, no more money to buy bread and rockets, no more worrying that the Israelis might be too harsh on the little darlings, right?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-palestinians-idUSTRE7414SS20110502

In the Hamas-run Gaza Strip, Haniyeh accused the United States of pursuing a policy based on "oppression and the shedding of Arab and Muslim blood."

"We condemn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior," he said.

Anyone recommending ANY support for, moral or financial, or any restraint in dealing with, the Palestinians and the terrorists they freely elected is obviously an evil person who kicks puppies and drowns kittens. AMIRIGHT?

EDIT: Just to be clear:

"We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs," Ismail Haniyeh, head of the Hamas administration in the Gaza Strip, told reporters.

You can believe the apologists, or you can believe Hamas and those who cover them for a living.

 

[CLite]

As the new abwx delusion of "Ismail Haniyeh is prime minister of Hamas." may become a matter of semantics and verb tense.

Because we may be able to State in the past that any given poobah held a given
government position, but it may turn out in the future that Haniyeh WAS the PM of Hamas, and now no longer holds that position.

In short, abwx, you vainly assume times never change in a world where change is the one thing that is inevitable.

Stop dancing around the facts. It is a fact that Ismail Haniyeh is currently prime minister for Hamas rule in the Gaza strip. We can hope that Hamas renounces him and his unforgivable statement and strikes a new path going forward with Fatah, but there are no current facts that indicate this has happened.

If Hamas maintains Ismail Haniyeh as one of it's leader, and Fatah moves forward with the merger then the USA will have no choice but to consider the new organization a terrorist organization.

I honestly feel bad for the Palestinian people; I believe they have been made the pawns/play things of the stronger nations surrounding them. However, they will not get out of the hole they are in by electing leaders who state that Osama is a holy warrior.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Looks like I proved my point.

Again LL can not back up his statements and wants to dance around his previous questionable ones, trying to use semantics and deflect the issue.

The Palestinian state that he expects in Sept to arrive is based on who the "quartet" sees the Palestinian state.

If they are not going to present a unified voice and renounce violence against Israel; they are not going to be accepted.

The recent pronouncements by Hamas do not indicate that the Egyptian brokered kiss/make up is anything but smoke and mirrors. Given that the US has a major play in this declared Palestinian state and you have Hamas condemning actions against a world accepted terrorist is bound to give pause.

The real world is not going to accept a new state with open arms that professes terror and a desire to destroy its neighbor.

 

[Ponce]

Recognizion for both states should be done AT THE SAME TIME and the border, or borders, should be the one of 1967........but of course I know that the final solution towards the Palestinian people by the state of Israel is to make them all go away and then convert all of Palestine into the country of Israel instead of only the state of Israel, after all the state of Israel is in Palestine.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Recognizion for both states should be done AT THE SAME TIME and the border, or borders, should be the one of 1967........but of course I know that the final solution towards the Palestinian people by the state of Israel is to make them all go away and then convert all of Palestine into the country of Israel instead of only the state of Israel, after all the state of Israel is in Palestine.

1) Why the '67 borders - what makes them so special?

2) IF you feel that Israel wants everything; why has it not been done previously.

3) Hamas is a terror organization sworn to eliminate Israel. No one can tell what the Palestinian government will be; but Hamas is determined that their is to not be one that is acceptable. Israel may tolerate Hamas IF Hamas is willing to look at Israel as a state, not a target to be destroyed.

 

[Ponce]

Even that. how about when they attack israel?

dude? if the Chinese were to ever take over the US as the Khazar-European-Zionist took over Palestine I do hope that the Amerian people do something about it as the Palestinian people are doing, even Hamas who was born thanks to the Zionists are now true Palestinians.

About a "THE PALESTINIAN STATE?"......one day while playing cards I mention the word Palestine and someone asked me "Where is Palestine" and I asked him "Do you know where the state of Israel is at?" and he said "yes" and I told him "Well, the state of Israel is in Palestine".

 

[Abwx]

As the new abwx delusion of "Ismail Haniyeh is prime minister of Hamas." may become a matter of semantics and verb tense.

Because we may be able to State in the past that any given poobah held a given
government position, but it may turn out in the future that Haniyeh WAS the PM of Hamas, and now no longer holds that position.

In short, abwx, you vainly assume times never change in a world where change is the one thing that is inevitable.

If israelis wants to choose whom from the palestinians must
be at the negotiation table, then the palestinian must be granted
the right to choose whose israelis are legitimate to negotiate...

No more double standard, wich you fall easily inside without
even noticing that you re granting others rights that they
denies you....

 

[Abwx]

1) Why the '67 borders - what makes them so special?

2) IF you feel that Israel wants everything; why has it not been done previously.

3) Hamas is a terror organization sworn to eliminate Israel. No one can tell what the Palestinian government will be; but Hamas is determined that their is to not be one that is acceptable. Israel may tolerate Hamas IF Hamas is willing to look at Israel as a state, not a target to be destroyed.

1) Because this is the only borders that the internationnal community
has agreed about, sanctionned by NATO resolutions, a few dozen
that israel refuse to apply to this day....

2) They want everything, but they need time to end their
disgusting ethnic cleansing...

3) Hamas has been declared terrorist by the west thanks
to the grip zionists have in your countries..
In matter of US foreign policy, AIPAC is the real master...

 

[Lemon law]

1) Why the '67 borders - what makes them so special?
( Simply because its universally agree that beyond Israeli 1967 borders, any Israeli land by conquest has no legitimacy. That has been the universal world view by consensus ever since the Oslo accords.)


2) IF you feel that Israel wants everything; why has it not been done previously.
( Simply because Israel lacks the resolve and capacity to do it all immediately, so instead Israel slowly settles on disputed land thereby increasing the share Israel can demand in any final settlement. But cheer up Common Courtesy, there is a growing consensus in Israel
that Israel can somehow get away with annexing all the Palestinian territories. )

3) Hamas is a terror organization sworn to eliminate Israel. No one can tell what the Palestinian government will be; but Hamas is determined that their is to not be one that is acceptable. Israel may tolerate Hamas IF Hamas is willing to look at Israel as a state, not a target to be destroyed.

( Why should either Hamas or Fatah look at or recognize the Israeli State as anything legitimate when Israel is nothing but a thief in their experience. Even the UN recognizes the legitimate right of an occupied people to resist the oppression of their occupier! Why should Israel have any more legitimacy than Hamas?
As for Fatah, they behave better than either.

And in closing I can only say, now the larger world is basically demanding a Palestinian State. Were it not for US opposition, we would have had a Palestinian State many years ago. How much longer the USA will support Israeli arrogance is what Israeli fan clubbers should be worrying about.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

dude? if the Chinese were to ever take over the US as the Khazar-European-Zionist took over Palestine I do hope that the Amerian people do something about it as the Palestinian people are doing, even Hamas who was born thanks to the Zionists are now true Palestinians.

About a "THE PALESTINIAN STATE?"......one day while playing cards I mention the word Palestine and someone asked me "Where is Palestine" and I asked him "Do you know where the state of Israel is at?" and he said "yes" and I told him "Well, the state of Israel is in Palestine".

Dude. Do you realize that Palestine was a conquest of war? It wasn't simply "taken over." If the Chinese ever managed to defeat the US in a war it would legitimately be theirs and there's not a damn thing we in the US could do about it. US citizens could try to fight and win back the land but if they got their ass kicked in the process they don't really have any right to complain that it's unfair. That's just the way of war.

Besides that, there really is no such thing as a Palestinian because there has never been a State of Palestine. Palestine was a territorial name conferred on the area by the British and that area was composed of a bunch of disparate Arab tribes that never had a unified government of their own in the first place. They have ALWAYS been ruled by others. Maybe that's the problem? They still want to act tribal and can't seem to come together in any sane fashion to actually create a state of Palestine because they were never unfied as a nation in the past.

 

[nick1985]

Why should either Hamas or Fatah look at or recognize the Israeli State as anything legitimate when Israel is nothing but a thief in their experience.

Long live Hamas!!!

 

[Abwx]

Long live Hamas!!!

hu, ??..Too much prozac ??...

 

[Abwx]

. Palestine was a territorial name conferred on the area by the British and that area was composed of a bunch of disparate Arab tribes that never had a unified government of their own in the first place. They have ALWAYS been ruled by others. Maybe that's the problem? They still want to act tribal and can't seem to come together in any sane fashion to actually create a state of Palestine because they were never unfied as a nation in the past.

Certainly that it was named Palestine from men s memory,
not israel, as aknowledged by the bible....::
Indeed, nationalisms are first born in europe as these countries
were fighting endless wars that threatened their very existence,
and zionism originate from europe.

The Palestinians, once their existence and life was reduced
to rubbles by the fascist born zionist nationalism , has no other
choice that to devellope their own nationalism as a defense...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Certainly that it was named Palestine from men s memory,
not israel, as aknowledged by the bible....::
Indeed, nationalisms are first born in europe as these countries
were fighting endless wars that threatened their very existence,
and zionism originate from europe.

The Palestinians, once their existence and life was reduced
to rubbles by the fascist born zionist nationalism , has no other
choice that to devellope their own nationalism as a defense...

It was named "Palestine" based on a bastardization of the word Philistine, which does come from the bible. And nationalism existed long before Europe. The area now known as Palestine has had many masters over the years including the Jews, the Romans, the Ottoman Arabs, Persians, Europeans, and many others. It has not, however, been an entity of its own at any time during history.

It could have been if the Palestinians were actually willing to take responsibility for themselves and stop listening to their Arab puppet-masters, as they have had many chances to do, but they continually have shot themselves in the foot over the years. "1967 borders?" They had years to accept those borders and REFUSED to do so. Now after all of the Arab and Palestinian aggression Israel is supposed to forgive and forget and go back to those borders? Please. The Palestinian idiots don't deserve such a deal. Apparently they continue to refuse to learn from their obstinate attitude though, as do their ridiculously uninformed fanboys.

 

[Abwx]

It was named "Palestine" based on a bastardization of the word Philistine, which does come from the bible. .

Palestine is the europeanisation of Philistine wich is the semitic
root of the word, still used in arabic language, although
prounounced "phalastine" wich became the root of
the european adaptation...

Ironicaly, even the bible aknowledge that this land was
inhabited well before the jews emigrated to it...

That said, palestinians are undoubtly of jewish origin,
it just happen that those who remained in palestine
did later convert to islam...

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Palestine is the europeanisation of Philistine wich is the semitic
root of the word, still used in arabic language, although
prounounced "phalastine" wich became the root of
the european adaptation...

Ironicaly, even the bible aknowledge that this land was
inhabited well before the jews emigrated to it...

That said, palestinians are undoubtly of jewish origin,
it just happen that those who remained in palestine
did later convert to islam...

If that's the case then all land in the world belongs to the Africans since humans originated from Africa. If you want to base ownership on who was there first, let's go back to the actual origins.

imo, it's a really stupid argument to make though because the world doesn't work that way. National lands are owned by countries that can maintain that ownership until they lose it, and that fact hasn't changed over time.

 

[Zebo]

The only real difference is slow Jihad or fast Jihad so it's about time they unite instead of facade.

 

[Ponce]

One of the members did say one thing that I do agree with.......Palestine was taken over by war......that's better than saying "God gave it to us", God is not in the real state business..........however, what now makes the Zionist Israelis "brave" is their weapons and not their courage......as proven in WWII.

 

[kylebisme]

If that's the case then all land in the world belongs to the Africans since humans originated from Africa. If you want to base ownership on who was there first, let's go back to the actual origins.

imo, it's a really stupid argument to make though because the world doesn't work that way.

That is a stupid argument, butt Abwx didn't suggest anything of the sort.

National lands are owned by countries that can maintain that ownership until they lose it, and that fact hasn't changed over time.

So if we wanted to kick Iraqis out of their country and take it over for ourselves, there'd be nothing wrong with that, eh?