Half-life 2 Performance: Breaking news

[Lager]

How similar is ATI Radeon 9500 Pro to 9600 Pro? I know that 9600 Pro will run the HL2 well, but how about the 9500 Pro?

 

[Genx87]

Why don't you post on real dev boards and see what they say (and post the link)-most of that is over our heads, but is sounds like bs to me because no one at b3d or anand or dig or ID is posting the line you just did (and they are the ones making the game, and the ones that are sent the betas and alphas).


I believe Doom3 will use stencil shadows which is extremely fast on Nvidia hardware.

 

[Rogodin2]

Holy crap this turned into a name calling Ad Hominem flamefest!

Rollo with his BAs even degraged himself by calling people potty words-I'm ashamed to say that I too have some BAs and have to associate myself with people that call others names that also have BAs!

LOL

The stencil shader bs has been discussed at beyond3d and I am too lazy to provide you links.

Rogo

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Rollo

You still haven't shown any proof that you have a 9800 pro and until you do, I'll call you for what you are--a compulsive liar that is trying to build up credibiliity by saying he owns a 9800 pro. People that show off about their "credit cards, bank accounts, boats, 2 bachelors degrees" etc. are usually insecure liars such as yourself.

I think I'll just call you what I think you are: a pesky dumba$$ with a computer.
Think about it dimbulb: let's say I jump through your little hoop and post a picture of me holding my 9800 Pro and the box it came in, in front of my boat, with my BS Business and BA Psych hanging on the wall behind me. What would that be proof of? You'd just post,"That is done with Photoshop!" or "That could be anyone, how do we know it's you?" or something else of that ilk. We'd be back to square one, you calling me a liar, me saying I'm not.

It's interesting you didn't have any problem believing I bought a 5800, but you won't believe I sold it and bought a 9800. LOL, like you're in some elite club of 9800 owners that anyone with a job can't join. What a punk.

I received your e-mails with desktop pictures, not exactly what I was asking for was it? Anyhow, lets say you are telling the truth then that leads me to believe you are just trying to save face by making up a lie about being "mad" at nVidia and switching to ATi after realizing how bad the 5800 ultra was compared to the card you ditched it for. I still think you're a compulsive liar and borderline troll though. Nobody should take anything you have to say seriously.

 

[nRollo]

5150:
You asked me to spend money I worked for on something I don't want to own, to prove I own something to a stranger who I'll never meet that for some reason thinks he's in a position to judge whether I'm a liar. Who's a borderline troll?

I sent you my desktop settings saying I have a 9800Pro /Nokia 445X Pro, as well as a screen of my device manager showing I have a 9800Pro installed. I've offered to hook up a scanner I don't use to scan the box the 9800 Pro came in, as well as pages of the manual that came with it. I wouldn't likely have the packaging if I didn't have the card now, would I? If this doesn't constitute "proof" to you, oh well. The best part of using a 9800Pro is using it, not having strangers in CA believe you own it.

You assumptions about my motives for selling the 5800 (which you have no trouble believing I bought) are ridiculous. Like I said, switching video cards didn't involve much money. Before my son and the expenses associated with him came along, I used to switch video cards every month or two, often to cards that didn't perform as well, just for the fun of trying new hardware.

nVidia screwed me and every other nV30 owner over. They released the nV35s earlier than expected, for less than expected. They trashed the nV30s to the media, and removed them from their website. It was found they cheated the drivers in the only game I really play, UT2003. Then their support sent me the emails of 3 people in their PR department to address my issues with, none of whom bothered to respond to me. As a person who bought an nV30, which was fast depreciating, I thought it best to cut my losses, sell it, and get the best card at the time. (9800Pro)

If this seems implausible to you, you'll have to live with it. It's the last I'll address the issue. The board can take me seriously as they see fit, you don't speak for them. Call me a troll all you like, I'm not the one who thread craps any nVidia related post with snide comments about how worthless their cards are. (and I'm still fairly annoyed with them)

 

[OmegaRedd]

Originally posted by: RogerAdam

Originally posted by: RogerAdam

Originally posted by: Rollo

Doom3 is not a significant DX9 game or DX at all for that matter. It is an OpenGL game.

LOL @ myself Old Fart. Good point, I forgot. Actually I'd say my OGl games outnumber my DX games at least 5X1, if not more. They're all based on Quake engines, except for the Mechs, Unreals, and Max Payne. (and even the Unreals go OGl)

This is a VERY interesting point the more I think about it. How relevant is DX9 for the fps player? Everyone uses Carmack's game engines. Damn. I better cancel my "superior 9600 Pro" order.

HL1 graphics were pretty decent for its day.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. Everything was pretty angular, and the lighting effects were cheesy. All it really had for me was the fun of interacting with the characters. Didn't think the monsters were scary. The Fiend in Q1 was a damn fine monster, when those things first jumped you and started slicing away, pretty tense. The chainsaw ogres were good to, as was the shambler.

Aquamark (3) is not a game, it's a benchmark.

True, but Aquanox2 and Spellforce will be games with the same engine, so is there any difference in this case?

Returning my new unopened GeForce 5900 Ultra. Today the last day to return this thing.

Don't do it Parrothead! I'll trade you a superior 9600Pro for it, unopened also! You'll be all set for DX9 and better off, just like BFG says! He is wise and respected, listen to him. PM we'll exchange addresses and Heat, and I'll set you up right with some (POS) ATI 9600 goodness!

Duh! I can't find an edit option (not used to this board layout).

Some interesting read here.

As for Aquamark go READ their pages, you CANNOT consider it a DX9 benchmark as it will do PS 1.1 - 1.4 depending on what it detects as capability, that said the FX WILL be using PS 1.4 (w/lower precision) to run it - unless NVidia can HONESTLY release a driver that runs DX9 (pure), as per EVERY DX9 bench game/beta whatever to date the FX series gets killed by the R95/6/7/800's, and the is NO DRIVER that can fix it for DX9, the ONLY fix is to run DX9 games/benchies as DX8.1 as NVidia has with it's "optimized" drivers, and has Valve when trying to help the crippled DX9 FX series work with HL2. As per a developer:

"Note the Actual problem here lies in the Bottom line Raw Rendering capabilities of Each hardware. ATi can do 8 FP ops and 8 Texture ops in the same Clock in paralell while Nvidia cannot. Its that Simple.

This has nothing to do with one being "8 Bits" and the Other being "4bits". Nor is it a Bug in DX9. There is an Update to DX9 on the way that will help with Shader Code Generation for Nvidia hardware. But even that is not going to make up the Difference between the two. It has nothing to do with a missing "Channel" Or anything else.

Any time that Nvidia has to Face Texture and Pixel Shader Work in the Same Clock they are at an Extreme Disadvantage. Which is the case in every single game released. Keep in mind here that this article is dealing with the Idea of Pure Peak Performance. Which never, ever happens."

This means the NV3x can NEVER fix their shader (PS2.0) problem with a driver, it's a H/W problem. What is really happening is an PER APPLICATION SPECIFIC fixes, ie EVERYTIME a new DX9 benchmark or title is ready too or goes public, NVidia MUST "optimize", ie make their drivers revert to DX8.1 to even compare with a Radeon DX9 part running DX9, and that folks is invalid, that is why Valve jumped all over NVidia, as if Valve never said anything, NVidia would've "optimized (DX8.1)" their drivers to pass ATI by a few FPS and plastered that benchmark score as DX9 comparison, when in reality, they are being smoked in pure DX9 comparisons in EVERYTHING including HL2.

Another thing (this relates to the beloved Doom3), ATI using the ARB2 path in OGL SMOKES NVidia, Carmack has to specially code an NV3x path because in HIS OWN WORDS "NV3x is very slow using the ARB2 path". What's funny are the remarks "wait til D3", well as per DX9, NV3x NEEDS HELP for it to perform, it simply CANNOT using the default path, so Carmack is doing exactly what valve did - he's dumbing down the API not using advanced shaders as much and lower precision FX12 w/ a little FP16, ATI's cards simply use ARB2 (all the effects) and higher precision with FP24 you can find this from the source (ID) itself.
With the FX series the concept of "future-proofing" just is not there, it's barely "present-proof".

THIS IS FACT:

DX9 - ATI runs it native, NVidia is painfully slow native, but can run it DX8.1 (wheteher the ISV does it, or NV does it with their "*optimizations")

OGL - ATI runs the native ARB2 path, again NV can but it's "very slow" (JC), again bringing down the API is the solution.

*optimizations - What gets me about this is that in their "statement" about Valve, they ADMIT that replacing shaders and lowering precision (FP16) is OK, and does NOTHING to the "experience" on their h/w. Does anyone remember the 3Dmark03 contraversy a few months back? - Wasn't it NVidia that COMPLAINED there was enough PS 2.0 in the benchmark? Further stating that made 3DMark invalid, well now they did a complete 180 on the matter (re:HL2 statement from NV themselves about "replacing 2.0 shaders w/1.4), can you NOW see the PR damage control (using the above).

How does anyone ACTUALLY believe it will turn around, when the only solution is to run DX9 and OGL BELOW their spec's?

Why does NV need to be helped along at all, OGL and DX are STANDARDS, it should just plain run on default paths (ie like they do on ATI).

Let the church say amen if the god of id can't do it who can?:evil:

 

[Vonkhan]

NV3x NEEDS HELP for it to perform

Viagra?

 

[OmegaRedd]

BY the way next year we'll all have new cards but I will not trust nvidia. After buying ten thousand (conservitive estimate) dollars of cards for 9+ years they wouldn't even return 1 e-mail. Not even microsoft has stones like that. I guess I will be going over to ati untill nvidia remembers that we the gamers control their destiny :evil:

 

[nRollo]

After buying ten thousand (conservitive estimate) dollars of cards for 9+ years they wouldn't even return 1 e-mail. Not even microsoft has stones like that. I guess I will be going over to ati untill nvidia remembers that we the gamers control their destiny

Uh oh Omega. You said you're PO'd that nVidia wouldn't return your emails even though you've been a good customer and now you're switching.

Not only will 5150Joker not believe you if you buy an ATI card, he'll think anything you say is suspect.

 

[OmegaRedd]

Look I just buy the best card period but now customer response also means alot to me now. Who wants to buy a $500 dollar card and get silence from the maker am I being unfair to nvidia. S-it I called ati just for the hell of it got a live peron in 5min. 1(905) 882-2626 Asked stupid questions and the still tried to help me. Now I don't know about the rest of you but when I spen my money I would like just a tiny little bit of F--KING RESPECT. (End of rant)

 

[1ManArmY]

I feel your pain, rant on brother.

 

[Johnbear007]

Originally posted by: Rage187
"Valve insists that they have not optimized the game specifically for any vendor."


cough*** BULLSHIT***cough


The whole part about them "insisting" just shows they are guilty of it.




They are a co-advertiser; they are even packaging their merchandise in the SAME bundle as a sales promotion. Yeah, no optimizations happened there

fanboy

 

[nRollo]

Omega:

Look I just buy the best card period but now customer response also means alot to me now. Who wants to buy a $500 dollar card and get silence from the maker am I being unfair to nvidia. S-it I called ati just for the hell of it got a live peron in 5min. 1(905) 882-2626 Asked stupid questions and the still tried to help me. Now I don't know about the rest of you but when I spen my money I would like just a tiny little bit of F--KING RESPECT. (End of rant)

You're preaching to the choir with me. I paid $339 for an FX5800 in early June when they were forecasting the 5900s were going to come out a month late and $100 over MSRP. They came out on time, nVidia yanked the 5800s from their website and told reviewers they were a mistake.

Apparently not enough of a mistake that they wanted to eat the loss on them, they sold them to their card manufacturers who passed them on to those of us who had been ready to try something new for a long time.

When I emailed them about this they told me to email Derek Perez, Brian Burke, and somebody else about it. They never returned my emails, so I sold their card and they'll have to have a BIG advantage before I'll buy another.

I have no love of ATI, but they haven't been rude to me yet.

 

[BFG10K]

How similar is ATI Radeon 9500 Pro to 9600 Pro?

The 9600 Pro is clocked higher and has more memory bandwidth, but the 9500 Pro has the fillrate advantage because of its 8 pipeline configuration.

I know that 9600 Pro will run the HL2 well, but how about the 9500 Pro?

Checka few reviews. AFAIK the 9500 Pro should be a bit faster but I don't want to mislead you on a hunch.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Rollo
5150:
You asked me to spend money I worked for on something I don't want to own, to prove I own something to a stranger who I'll never meet that for some reason thinks he's in a position to judge whether I'm a liar. Who's a borderline troll?

I sent you my desktop settings saying I have a 9800Pro /Nokia 445X Pro, as well as a screen of my device manager showing I have a 9800Pro installed. I've offered to hook up a scanner I don't use to scan the box the 9800 Pro came in, as well as pages of the manual that came with it. I wouldn't likely have the packaging if I didn't have the card now, would I? If this doesn't constitute "proof" to you, oh well. The best part of using a 9800Pro is using it, not having strangers in CA believe you own it.

You assumptions about my motives for selling the 5800 (which you have no trouble believing I bought) are ridiculous. Like I said, switching video cards didn't involve much money. Before my son and the expenses associated with him came along, I used to switch video cards every month or two, often to cards that didn't perform as well, just for the fun of trying new hardware.

nVidia screwed me and every other nV30 owner over. They released the nV35s earlier than expected, for less than expected. They trashed the nV30s to the media, and removed them from their website. It was found they cheated the drivers in the only game I really play, UT2003. Then their support sent me the emails of 3 people in their PR department to address my issues with, none of whom bothered to respond to me. As a person who bought an nV30, which was fast depreciating, I thought it best to cut my losses, sell it, and get the best card at the time. (9800Pro)

If this seems implausible to you, you'll have to live with it. It's the last I'll address the issue. The board can take me seriously as they see fit, you don't speak for them. Call me a troll all you like, I'm not the one who thread craps any nVidia related post with snide comments about how worthless their cards are. (and I'm still fairly annoyed with them)

First of all, it's easy to fake a device ID, any moron can do it. I can fake my device ID to be a 5900 ultra if I wanted, those desktop shots you sent me prove nothing. As a student I have no problems buying digital cameras or webcams, surely you could buy one. Hell, you could use your wife's regular camera and scan the pictures, its not exactly a demanding task. nVidia didn't screw anyone over, you screwed yourself over. You were foolish enough to buy a 5800 ultra knowing full well it was a crap card--unless you were blind and didn't see all the reviews. It's easy not to take you seriously because your constant endorsements of nVidia products (after claiming to have been burned by them) is illogical which means either you're completely retarded or you are a liar. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and chose the latter.

 

[OmegaRedd]

All the nvidia fans are doubting valve but the man (gabe) has alot to lose. If he didn't come forward in 2 weeks when the bench mark is going to be released. All the sites would scream bloody murder that they have optimized for ati. Also alot of developers are going to want to use this engine (scales from dx6 to dx9) and 5900 owners would want to return the game. He felt he probaly had no choice but to come forward to avoid a future misunderstading. After futuremark,tiger woods 2003,hl2 and removing a patch that fixes problems for tombraider aod just because the bench is slow (ect on and on). I have come up with a new slogan for nvidia " THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PATCHED "

 

[nRollo]

First of all, it's easy to fake a device ID, any moron can do it. I can fake my device ID to be a 5900 ultra if I wanted, those desktop shots you sent me prove nothing.

If you say so, I'd never waste my time learning to do something like that. (students have a lot more time though)

As a student I have no problems buying digital cameras or webcams, surely you could buy one.

I "could" buy many, but why I would do so to convince a stranger that I own a video card is probably a better question.

Hell, you could use your wife's regular camera and scan the pictures, its not exactly a demanding task.

When you're out of school, working full time, caring for kids and a home, time and how you spend it will change for you. So, I'm not going to yank my card, photo it, scan the photo and email you a copy just because you think I should. If you want to think I have a S3 Virge, that's ok with me.

nVidia didn't scre anyone over, you screwed yourself over.

If you bought a new Dodge Viper to drive, and Dodge suddenly pulled the Viper off their website, and replaced it with the Joker, told the media the Viper was a mistake and everyone should buy Jokers, would you have "screwed yourself"?

You were foolish enough to buy a 5800 ultra knowing full well it was a crap card--unless you were blind and didn't see all the reviews.

At the time, it was the 3rd fastest card I could buy, and so I wouldn't call it "crap". I actually wish I still had it sometimes. I was bored with the 9700Pro, and the 9800 Pro is pretty much the same as having it back. The 5800 did everything I needed it to.

It's easy not to take you seriously because your constant endorsements of nVidia products (after claiming to have been burned by them) is illogical which means either you're completely retarded or you are a liar. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and chose the latter.

I don't endorse nVidia products, I just have a more rational opinion of them the ATI zealots. A card isn't "crap" because it's not the fastest you can buy at every benchmark and detail setting. The 5900 Ultra won't be a great choice for the couple of DX9 games that come out this year, but it should be faster at any OpenGl game at up to 4X8X, and in the ball park at any DX 8.1 game.

Yet here we have you and all the other fanATIcs pitching tents making your boxers all sticky posting "nVidia suxorz!! HL2 is da bomb!" all over the web, like you personally invented the R300 gpu. I have never understood this attitude. I live in Wisconsin, when the Packers are doing well everyone in the state somehow thinks they're connected to it in some way, rather than just we paid the best pro athletes that year. (and say things like "We creamed the Bears! They've got no defense!" when every single person on the Bears has achieved a level of excellence unknown to every single fan) When goofs discuss the merits of their cars/truck brand, you'd think they had a hand in the engineering rather than just bought a consumer good. I hunt ducks, and like my Browning shotguns, but on shotgun bbs it's the same as here. "My Benelli is better than your Browning, recoil autoload is much better than gas!" etc. ad infinitum.

People really need to get a life. If you're in college, and at a good school, enjoy it while you can because when you leave it will be rare that you discuss ideas and philosophies. You'll spend the rest of your life comparing your crap to your neighbors and trying to get more.

<steps off soapbox>

P.S. I'll likely get a nV40/R400 when they come out. I always sell my vid cards for great prices, I'll give you first chance on the 9800Pro if you like. You could buy it, then perhaps you would believe that I own it. It will cost less then a digital camera, so I assume you won't mind spending the money to have proof of the card, as you didn't have any problem asking me to do so.
Actually, if you want to buy it now, I'd sell it to you for 10% less than I paid on newegg.

 

[OmegaRedd]

Rollo:wine:YourKillingMe LOL, some people need to get a girl or maybe a life. Why is he so interested in what in your pc? Watch out maybe he really wants a pic of you in your boxers. LOL LOL LOL

 

[nRollo]

RolloYourKillingMe LOL, some people need to get a girl or maybe a life. Why is he so interested in what in your pc? Watch out maybe he really wants a pic of you in your boxers. LOL LOL LOL

LOL
He doesn't want to see me in my boxers, unless he thinks Drew Carey is "hot".

I'm no Gabe, but I weigh 40# more than I did when I looked "good" in the 1980s.

 

[OmegaRedd]

Hey what's with 5150joker pic fantasy doesn't he have any games play or maybe he's toooooo bizy playing with himself. I'm sure there are plenty of hoes on at school hint hint LOL LOL

 

[stardust]

please keep this thread clean... that's something you should send rollo on a personal message...
anyway, i wonder how hl would look if they showed the "HL_02 Source.exe" demo in dx8.1a... im really curious about the actual difference it makes of directx versions in hl2.

 

[Ruroni]

Originally posted by: stardust
i wonder how hl would look if they showed the "HL_02 Source.exe" demo in dx8.1a... im really curious about the actual difference it makes of directx versions in hl2.

Yeah, no kidding, what's it going to be like for the rest of us, non 5900 Ultra/ 9800 pro weilding poor ones who only have a DX8 card

 

[OmegaRedd]

News flash no High Dynamic Range lighting for nvidia cards in hl2. Will try to put hdr demo on bit-torrent at suprnova.

 

[OmegaRedd]

WARNING hdr demo wil only work on dx9 cards looks great on my 9800 pro would not work on my gf4.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Rollo

<snip>

If you are so busy with life, how come you have such a huge post count and only registered 1 month before me?