Half-life 2 Performance: Breaking news

[Crapgame]

Some early det 51.75 & AquaMark 3 results are already popping up, I wouldnt push the issue too far...

unless you find crow tastey?

Where's the pwnage?

I'll fully admit nV has a shorter pipe and based on the design per clock it will be slower but nowhere near what Valve is saying.

 

[Ferocious]

We'll see what Anand has to say about all this.

Aquamark3???

What the hell is that? Another 3DMark?

I wanna know what the best card is for playing GAMES....not benchmarks.

 

[Vonkhan]

I had an easier time teaching my dog to drag trash bags out than explaining to nVIDIOTS, seriously now!

nVIDIOT species ...

Driver-hopers: det50s will solve everything & 5900Us will be king!

Sour-Grapers: gaaah, half life 2 sucks (watch the trailer)

Deny-ers: i dont believe it, show me a review ... i still dont believe it, show me the actual numbers ... i still dont believe it, show me 1010100010001110010100

DX9 haters: DX9 is immaterial, no one ever gonna use it no more

Conspirators: ATi, Valve and Microsoft, dont see the connection???

Fanboy-lovers: beat off, in the a$$, small dick, in bed with each, asshole

Ostrichs: What happened?


:beer:

The proof of the pudding, my friends, is in the eating ... and right now, nvidia is eating a lot of BROWN pudding with crow on the side

 

[Crapgame]

Vonkhan no clicky linky?

Edit:\/

I wanna know what the best card is for playing GAMES....not benchmarks.

It is a game, not a synthetic benchmark...
not everything is the same revamped shooters.

 

[nRollo]

Vonkhan:

Come on now LMAO

Ever buy anything from newegg that had Free Fedex Saver shipping on it Einstein? Why would they have an added charge listed for shipping when there was none?

In any case, if you buy from newegg, and have an order that only included free fedex saver shipping, just go to their website and look at your invoices. They'll look the same as what I posted. I didn't link the page, because I'd be publishing my customer id, home address, and phone numbers. (and some of you guys don't exactly strike me as "mature")

Look, here's the bottom of my FX5800 receipt too, with no shipping charges because it was free.

14-127-082 VGA MSI|GF FX5800-TD 128MB - RTL
1

$339.00

$339.00
MSI 626 913 0828




Subtotal

$339.00
Tax

$0.00
Shipping and Handling charge

$0.00
Amount Paid

$339.00

 

[Crapgame]

Hehe, here's my receipt (sorry the receipt thing is fun)

2003 Maybach 57

Make Maybach
Year 2003
Engine Location Front
Drive Type Rear Wheel
Weight NA
Gears 6
Transmission Type automatic
Price $300,000.00
Shipping 0$
Total
$300,000

 

[rogue1979]

Originally posted by: sman789
ahhh, 9600 pro made me happy again

The 5900 ultra is noticeably slower with the special codepath and is horrendously slower under the default dx9 codepath;
- the Radeon 9600 Pro performs very well - it is a good competitor of the 5900 ultra;

Gee, according to the article the 5900 wasn't doing very well. So if the 9600Pro has about equal performance in the same game, it doesn't sound like something to be happy about.

 

[Vonkhan]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Vonkhan:

Come on now LMAO

Ever buy anything from newegg that had Free Fedex Saver shipping on it Einstein? Why would they have an added charge listed for shipping when there was none?

[/quote]


dude ... i was refering to the F-16 post u sure are touchy today!

In any case, check out the HL2 trailer in case u still haven't ... it'll blow u away

 

[Genx87]

P.S. DX9 performance won't get better on the FX line unless nVidia hand optimizes for every shader intensive DX9 game that comes out in the future.


There is a an article posted on the front page of aceshardware that is rather interesting concerning JIT compilers and Nvidia cards. Now I was always under the impression the compilers were good to go. But apparently they arent. Microsoft and Nvidia are working on a JIT compiler for the FX series of cards.

Some have mentioned this kind of compiler can be put into the drivers of the card. Ever since the release of the NV30 all we have been hearing about are these Mythical Det 50s but they are always under beta lock. I am also curious as to why Gabe Newell is so scared about some sites reviewing Nvidia cards using these Det 50s. In his comments it is almost like he is trying to hide something or be proven wrong.

I think one of Microsofts hopes for DX9 was to get 3d programming more into a high lvl language like Visual Basic is to assembly. The FX cards seem to be more and more P4 like by the month. It will be interesting to see if Nvidia can get these compilers out and into drivers or out to devs to recompile shader programs and include them in patches.

It appears by all means ATI has won this round and it will be interesting to see what Nvidias answer is

 

[nRollo]

John Carmack announced that nVidia performed like crap with the default ARB2 codepath and a special NV-specific codepath had to be invented. This also incorporated changing the FP precision to 16-bit down from 32-bit (since Nvidia didn't support the DX9 spec 24-bit, which ATI does). John Carmack decided not to make a big stink of it, in part because he really respects Nvidia and their hardware (which he says is incredibly reliable and has some of the most stable OpenGL drivers around). But it's no longer really an apples-to-apples comparaison anymore with that game...

What you left out here is that Carmack said it didn't effect image quality so there was no reason not to do it.


Vonk: Sorry about that. I suppose I am a bit touchy today, I'm behind at work, have surgery tomorrow, I take my year old boat into the shop the day after, and my new truck that I had a fender bender with goes to body shop on Monday. That's life, but it's never fun when the crappy stuff happens all at once.

 

[mflacy]

Originally posted by: Genx87
P.S. DX9 performance won't get better on the FX line unless nVidia hand optimizes for every shader intensive DX9 game that comes out in the future.


I am also curious as to why Gabe Newell is so scared about some sites reviewing Nvidia cards using these Det 50s. In his comments it is almost like he is trying to hide something or be proven wrong.

He said that he doesn't want reviews done with the BETA Det 50's. He didn't say anything against the final version.

 

[Superbike]

right on DefRef!!!

 

[Alkali]

For all the people who keep saying Valve are to blame, or ATi is 'lucky'..........


I read an article a few months ago about the nVidia 4x2 and ATi 8x1 registers etc, and it also expanded upon how each card had implemented the DX9 specification. It appeared to me then, as it does now, that ATi stuck much more closely to the specifications, and nVidia tried to be clever with 4x2 and also the cg_codepath stuff. nVidia, in my opinion needs to change their attitude, and create a chipset that actually follows the DX9 specifications properly. Then they could get ahead with the advantage they have with memory bandwidth etc.

The only people nVidia can truely blame are themselves. They took a risk to try and leap ahead, and it turned out to backfire. Hopefully they will just get on with the job of implementing proper DX9 specifications, and stop trying to be clever by working around them. They have plenty of ability, market share, money, resources, etc to be able to push a new (or revised) chipset into the market.

However, I don't think they will. I think they will just chunter on in the knowledge that they have a huge income from OEM's, and they will still be left with maybe up to 50% market share even if they dont release a new chipset until late 2004 or early 2005.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Ruroni

bunnyfubbles
Yes, HL2 is finished and will never be touched again and nVidia is going to give up completely and never make a new driver set until the NV40 ships out.

Let's draw permanent conclusions right now! WE R SMART!

We may not be so smart, to expect some tweaking, but we can also take 2 things into consideration:
1) ATI will too stop? Only NVidia will persue optimization?
2)There is only so much "optimising" you can do to the hardware, with software.

1) no they will not stop, but (logically) who has the most room for improvement? Obviously that?s nVidia being that their performance is so low and up until now they?ve been pretty close in performance to ATI?
2) true, but nVidia has always been a pretty damn aggressive company able to pull through the thick and thin, if anyone could do it it?s them (if ATI were so behind right now and were in the hot seat, I?d not have as much faith in them pulling off a miracle)

Conclusion) All I?m saying is WAIT, wait until the game is here and new drivers are indeed out, MAKE ?FIRM? CONCLUSIONS THEN NOT NOW.

bunnyfubbles
ATI got lucky that nVidia took a gamble with .13 and that ATI was also lucky that their gamble with .15 paid out (with it being mature enough to succeed as much as it has). Designing GPU cores isn't so simple as trying to crank out higher clock cycles from your chips,

The 9600 pro (which sells for so much less and peforms so much better) is also based on .13 micron manufacturing process.

Yes, this is why the 9600 came out the same time as the .15 9700 and BEFORE nVidia?s 5800 (massive sarcasm inserted if you could not tell). ATI WAITED until nVidia risked much with .13; once the process was mature ATI jumped onboard and tested it out for themselves, they did this when it WAS NOT A GAMBLE, THINK PLEASE. This is also why all of nVidia?s other .13 products are just as hot and horrid as their initial 5800 Ultras (sarcasm again).


Major problem with people in these forums is they take any information given to them and they take it straight. They don?t read the fine print and they can?t seem to put two and two together.

60 fps on a 9800 Pro @ 10x7 -> ?ONO WE R SKREWED!!! NO GF4 OR 8500 WILL BE ABLE TO EVEN RUN THE GAME? <- too bad that?s the game with DX9, running without it will get you better performance but you?ve not be shown this directly and therefore many of you make stupid conclusions.

Stuff like that is proof of the ignorance. Just take the information given you with a grain of salt, if it is good news than so be it, if it is bad chances are it might not be so bad when the time actually comes and most importantly remember this game isn?t even out yet and therefore there should be no need for absolute concern just yet.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Crapgame
Some early det 51.75 & AquaMark 3 results are already popping up, I wouldnt push the issue too far...

unless you find crow tastey?

Where's the pwnage?

I'll fully admit nV has a shorter pipe and based on the design per clock it will be slower but nowhere near what Valve is saying.

too bad we cant judge IQ

 

[1ManArmY]

Is anyone playing the Halo beta version? That game will be released prior to HL2 being that it may have slipped to a NOV release date. Hopefully the smoke will have cleared and everyone will have made their choices in hardware and if they were wrong then an upgrade or switch might be in order.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Vonkhan:

Come on now LMAO

Ever buy anything from newegg that had Free Fedex Saver shipping on it Einstein? Why would they have an added charge listed for shipping when there was none?

In any case, if you buy from newegg, and have an order that only included free fedex saver shipping, just go to their website and look at your invoices. They'll look the same as what I posted. I didn't link the page, because I'd be publishing my customer id, home address, and phone numbers. (and some of you guys don't exactly strike me as "mature")

Look, here's the bottom of my FX5800 receipt too, with no shipping charges because it was free.

14-127-082 VGA MSI|GF FX5800-TD 128MB - RTL
1

$339.00

$339.00
MSI 626 913 0828




Subtotal

$339.00
Tax

$0.00
Shipping and Handling charge

$0.00
Amount Paid

$339.00

Yay for more typed out receipts!

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Is anyone playing the Halo beta version? That game will be released prior to HL2 being that it may have slipped to a NOV release date. Hopefully the smoke will have cleared and everyone will have made their choices in hardware and if they were wrong then an upgrade or switch might be in order.

Apparently if you buy an nV card the smoke and fog will be pre-cleared for you!

From Ars:

As you can tell from looking at the list in the slide above, Newell was concerned particularly with some of the techniques NVIDIA has used in recent driver releases, although he didn't exempt other graphics hardware makers from his complaints. He said they had seen cases where fog was completely removed from a level in one of Valve's games, by the graphics driver software, in order to improve performance. I asked him to clarify which game, and he said it was Half-Life 2.

Apparently, this activity has gone on while the game is still in development . He also mentioned that he's seen drivers detect screen capture attempts and output higher quality data than what's actually shown in-game.

Gf4, the last good nvidia cards?

 

[Bingo13]

Originally posted by: Crapgame
Some early det 51.75 & AquaMark 3 results are already popping up, I wouldnt push the issue too far...

unless you find crow tastey?

Where's the pwnage?

I'll fully admit nV has a shorter pipe and based on the design per clock it will be slower but nowhere near what Valve is saying.

Hilbert has not posted the benchmarks without AA/AF enabled. We also do not know the card settings and what driver optimizations have been made for this benchmark. Until the details are available I would not count on this test yet.

 

[flashbacck]

I don't know if they're revealing numbers too early, but www.firingsquad.com had the numbers for the HL2 benchmarks up this morning

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: JSSheridan
Personally, I think many of the forum users would like to see how it performs on a nVidia GF3 and GF4 TI, and an ATI 8500 and 9000. I also am curious about what Valve provided you with. Did they let you test an unoptimized beta, a release candidate build, or the final release version 1.0? Can you comment on either of these Evan or Anand, if you are reading this?

According to HardOCP, the Ti 4600 runs the game equivalent to the GeForce FX 5900 Ultra in Valve's special "mixed mode"....in other words, at 10x7 with decent detail, expect 40-45 FPS, possibly more depending on the rest of your system. In other words, you're looking at a graphical load that's pretty equivalent to a UT2003 botmatch.

 

I really didn't care much for the first Half Life. I bought the game. Played it to the end, and back on the shelf it went. Never have I even thought of playing it again. Didn't really thrill me. Conversely, I still play UT/2003 all the time. I dont think I will ever get tired of it. So I guess I'm one of the fortunate 5900 nu owners. I never even thought of buying Half Life 2. I am, however, looking forward to Doom 3.
I know that tons of other people are drooling for Half Life 2. More power to em'.. Its just funny how all you people are calling my 5900 card junk. I don't think it is. I think its the best card I have ever owned. Fastest by far... Enihilates my 9700np all around. So for you all to call my 5900 junk, What does that make your 9700's? sub-junk? LOL..

To put it simply, I do not regret my purchase. Just in case that's the emotion the ATI fans here are trying to make nvidia owners feel. One thing I totally agree with though. GF2 to GF3: huge performance gain. GF3 to GF4Ti: also huge performance gain. GF4Ti to the 3Dfx/Nvidia "FX" series: not so great. I would recommend Nvidia loses all of the 3Dfx employees it "gained" after the buyout. There is something there thats gone south. IMHO.

GM

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: Crapgame
Well I havent seen any part of it myself but I heard it looks like butt compaired to Doom3.

The graphics are a little unimpressive after recent releases like UT2003 and Splinter Cell, but the game certainl doesn't look bad....there are parts in fact that are rather attractive. Also, the gameplay, which I care more about than any graphical wizbang, looks to be on target.

Personally, I don't plan to buy Doom 3. We've spent the last 10 years doing nothing but shooting zombies indoors as far as games from Id are concerned. I'm tried of it. The engine looks promising but Id has been out of creativity for years IMO.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: modedepe

Originally posted by: rbV5

ATI is the clear performance leader under Half-Life 2 with the Radeon 9800 Pro hitting around 60 fps at 10x7

Yikes that sucks. "winner" looks like "less of a loser" to me:Q

Yeah that was surprising too. So much for it running on gf2's or tnt2's or whatever people were saying. It looks like people will have to shell out a good amount of money to get any decent performance.

Exactly.

My first impression after looking at the benches was:
OMG, that f'ing sucks.
All this talk about how well HL2 would "scale"
60 fps at 10x7x32 with NO AA or AF on the current top of the line video card is f'ing pathetic.
If scaling for a GF3 means running at 640x480 with 16 bit color and low textures just to get 20 or 30 fps, then NO, it does NOT scale well at all.

I would have expected 60 fps at 16x12x32 with full AA and AF on a Radeon 9800 Pro.

And yes, most of us could afford to buy whatever video card we wanted.
But for those of us with families and other priorities, we cannot justify spending $350 just so our games will look better.

So if performance sucks on GF3's and Radeon 8500's, I think HL2 sales will definitely suffer.

 

[Insomniak]

My my there's a ton of foolish people in this thread.

Let's see, who here would like to buy 5900 Ultras and 9800 Pros for much less money than they cost now? I thought so.


The bottom line here is that competition is a GOOD THING! It means lower prices for all of us, and increased options for all of us to choose from. All you moron Nvidiots and ATimbeciles need to get over this petty, immature, pathetic "my card is better than yours!" crap. Are you all 14 years old? Seriously.

It seems to me like half the people participating in this discussion have a serious problem with their self esteem and have to use a video card and internet forums to feel better about themselves. I think we have a classic case of what is commonly known as "dick fear". People are terrified of inadequacies...(most commonly compared to a certain anatomical part)...and so compete with each other to feel better about themselves.

That's what all the jackass posturing and bullcrap tough talking in high school and bars and on sports fields is all about....it's called DICK FEAR. As far as I can tell, this video card argument is just a mutated version of the same thing.

So in closing, aside from the 3 or 4 of you who have managed to discuss this topic with something resembling civility, organization, and intelligence, you're all pathetic. Grow up, get out, and become better human beings. It doesn't mean you have to give up gaming - hell, I'm a hardcore gamer in my own right - but you need to realize that that's all it is....games.

Christ.

- Som