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Guns Definitely Aren't the Problem (Obligatory Sarcasm) - 11y/o Bystander Killed by Stray Bullet

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Yes and that is part of the point. Dangerous things exist because they provide functionality. We don’t ban cars, we impose age requirements and the digestion and the correct regurgitation of laws and safety measures even though cars can be used to murder people. Sometimes many almost instantaneously. We don’t ban SUVs even though lots of people drive them for self defense meaning someone in a small car may be killed in a collision with one.

We don’t ban many dangerous things so that people who find them functional won’tlegally prevented fron using them. But with guns,people who don’t want to own them are quite willing to impose their fear based authoritarianism on others.

As many of us have said every time someone tries to compare guns to cars, we would be overjoyed to regulate guns as well as we do cars. That is the whole point. Cars are dangerous but needed, so we allow them but put all sorts of conditions on the ownership and operation of them. At least in Texas you can't even buy a car without having insurance. You can't operate a car without training and licensing. You can be forced to take no-refusal drug and alcohol tests for just being in the driver's seat of a car. Fail that test and you will go to jail, for just sitting in the driver's seat, no requirement to actually drive the car.

The presumption is that you know enough to know what is fantasy and what is not. It's easy to assume you know what you feel if you have never experienced the retrieval of suppressed feelings by feeling what you feel. Some people are driven to discovery by seeking the answers to questions like what is the Matrix. Others not so much....
Are these words in this order supposed to convey some meaning? Are these words in this specific order for a reason or did you just grab a bunch of random words from a dictionary and run it through a grammar check? Because this reply barely counts as sentences much less anything resembling coherent thought. The current crop of AI Chatbots are considerably more thought provoking then these seemingly random words.
 
The 2nd Amendment ensured that the states had a right to protect themselves, how they do that is up to them. The good news is that it’s easier for citizens to change the laws at the state level than at the federal level. Yes it would be better if all states were on the same page but that’s not how our constitution is set up. As it stands now states can’t even enact gun laws that a majority of its citizens want. That’s anti democratic and it directly violates the 2nd amendment.
One of the few times I have to agree with Moonie. 2A is explicitly a federal right. It does get confusing to have different state laws. Only muskets for all!!!
 
One of the few times I have to agree with Moonie. 2A is explicitly a federal right. It does get confusing to have different state laws. Only muskets for all!!!

I’m not sure how you get a federal right out of it when the amendment explicitly talks about the states and their ability to be free.
 
As many of us have said every time someone tries to compare guns to cars, we would be overjoyed to regulate guns as well as we do cars. That is the whole point. Cars are dangerous but needed, so we allow them but put all sorts of conditions on the ownership and operation of them. At least in Texas you can't even buy a car without having insurance. You can't operate a car without training and licensing. You can be forced to take no-refusal drug and alcohol tests for just being in the driver's seat of a car. Fail that test and you will go to jail, for just sitting in the driver's seat, no requirement to actually drive the car.


Are these words in this order supposed to convey some meaning? Are these words in this specific order for a reason or did you just grab a bunch of random words from a dictionary and run it through a grammar check? Because this reply barely counts as sentences much less anything resembling coherent thought. The current crop of AI Chatbots are considerably more thought provoking then these seemingly random words.

WRT cars, as soon as you start pointing the obvious consequences of the comparison, the next step is for gun enthusiasts to say “driving isn’t a constitutional right”

constant goal post moving and feel based arguments
 
I am not comparing guns to cars. I am suggesting that the utility of dangerous things is not fixed by how dangerous they are but by how individuals always see the utility based on how much they fear their own relationship to to that utility being cut. The more important the utility of a thing is to an individual, the more it is held as a sacred cow, the more a person will place the value of that utility above the risk.

The authoritarian left will tend to see guns as a risk whereas people who live farther from timely protection of the law will see them more as insurance. I sympathize more with that second view point. I was a scout. Be prepared!
Again this is not complicated. One of those views (guns as a risk) is backed by science. The other is not. The only utility pro gun people have been able to provide is that guns are fun to shoot, which is not remotely good enough.

Now you may argue that because people’s feelings tell them wrong things about guns as insurance that we as a society should cater to them but I decline. Or, at a minimum I would like to register the fact that taxes hurt my feelings so I shouldn’t have to pay them anymore. People believe insane things but that’s their problem, not mine.
 
The 2nd Amendment ensured that the states had a right to protect themselves, how they do that is up to them. The good news is that it’s easier for citizens to change the laws at the state level than at the federal level. Yes it would be better if all states were on the same page but that’s not how our constitution is set up. As it stands now states can’t even enact gun laws that a majority of its citizens want. That’s anti democratic and it directly violates the 2nd amendment.
A constitutional government is meant to make democratic change difficult, but 5 votes can do it the easy way. The states are thus restricted from any old ideas they wish to dream up. Gun laws are subject to review and must meet the approval of those 5 people.

Meamehile, all eyes turned to the legal war for and against guns, the growing rage created by our sick culture increasingly festers. This is how I see it.
 
As many of us have said every time someone tries to compare guns to cars, we would be overjoyed to regulate guns as well as we do cars. That is the whole point. Cars are dangerous but needed, so we allow them but put all sorts of conditions on the ownership and operation of them. At least in Texas you can't even buy a car without having insurance. You can't operate a car without training and licensing. You can be forced to take no-refusal drug and alcohol tests for just being in the driver's seat of a car. Fail that test and you will go to jail, for just sitting in the driver's seat, no requirement to actually drive the car.

I have no problem with the facts regarding this, but there is a difference still. Driving is a privilege whereas the right to bear arms is constitutionally guaranteed. State legislatures can therefore attach whatever riders they like to the privilege of driving but not anything they want to gun laws. So the point remains that what gets considered to be rational legislatively compared to what is rational constitutionally, are different things based on the one hand on opinion about what is rational and what is constitutional, differing sets of standards. Legislatures decide the one based on the majority opinion, the SC only needs the agreement of 5 people. The founders were well aware of the potential insanity of popular opinion and the tyranny of the majority.

Are these words in this order supposed to convey some meaning? Are these words in this specific order for a reason or did you just grab a bunch of random words from a dictionary and run it through a grammar check? Because this reply barely counts as sentences much less anything resembling coherent thought. The current crop of AI Chatbots are considerably more thought provoking then these seemingly random words.

My words were: "The presumption is that you know enough to know what is fantasy and what is not. It's easy to assume you know what you feel if you have never experienced the retrieval of suppressed feelings by feeling what you feel. Some people are driven to discovery by seeking the answers to questions like what is the Matrix. Others not so much...."

Your response: "While we are at it why don't we make it so people can't die or take any damage at all. Make everyone immortal and indestructible. That will also fix the problem. As long as we are talking about fantasy solutions, I think mine should at least be considered."

Me: Your response was to present an absurdity with the intention it be analogous to what you felt was my absurdity, that the kind of answer I proposed equated to the stupidity you presented as an alternative. You did this because heard in your head regarding what I said only that which your life experience has given you the capacity to see. You judge the world as if that is all the capacity anyone else has automatically, unconsciously, and without question. Additionally, I told you why you do that, why you have limited your experience out of fear.

I know what you do not, in my opinion, and I am uninterested in the competitive threat I believe that makes you feel. I regard my task as to tell you the truth I see. I regard my level of real understanding to be pathetic but better than you have. There is no way no words to make you realize you do not know what you feel. But I believe you can find out were you serious enough to want to question everything you believe. One of those questions is whether at present you are really serious and to what degree you can see you are not.

I know what you fear because I fear it too. That last part, that we fear, is what I know that you do not admit to. Somebody told me and I have had years and years checking and verifying those facts. I call it dumb luck but my Mom told me to be honest. I did my best and destroyed everything I held sacred. Probably helped me to be somewhat open to hearing. Good luck.
 
Again this is not complicated. One of those views (guns as a risk) is backed by science. The other is not. The only utility pro gun people have been able to provide is that guns are fun to shoot, which is not remotely good enough.

Now you may argue that because people’s feelings tell them wrong things about guns as insurance that we as a society should cater to them but I decline. Or, at a minimum I would like to register the fact that taxes hurt my feelings so I shouldn’t have to pay them anymore. People believe insane things but that’s their problem, not mine.

According to science intelligence is very much genetically determined and that intelligence is what culls the nouveau-riche from the rabble. The obvious answer to the problems created by stupid people is to allow only the smartest say 5% with attractive physiques to breed. It just makes logical sense and everybody knows it. True, I can hear Australopithecines arguing against it, but hey, they didn't win the argument.

Your argument is good right up to the point where you believe you and you alone can state with certainty what is truly rational and what is not. So I won't be pushing my own rational approach to the use of eugenics. It has proven in the past to lead down dark paths.

There is nothing irrational about survival of the fittest. It morphs from kill or be killed to rational belief in the right of self defense.

Please tell me that if you somehow found yourself in a situation that the use of a gun could save an innocent life threatened by some psychopath, you would not use it. Kindly allow others to be so prepared if they are willing to deal with the risks. Worry about how to create a nation populated by more responsible less mentally ill people. That's were the big gains in reduction of gun deaths will come.
 
Oh sorry those "other groups" are little busy fighting or actively being convicted for sedition charges.
 
According to science intelligence is very much genetically determined and that intelligence is what culls the nouveau-riche from the rabble. The obvious answer to the problems created by stupid people is to allow only the smartest say 5% with attractive physiques to breed. It just makes logical sense and everybody knows it. True, I can hear Australopithecines arguing against it, but hey, they didn't win the argument.

Your argument is good right up to the point where you believe you and you alone can state with certainty what is truly rational and what is not. So I won't be pushing my own rational approach to the use of eugenics. It has proven in the past to lead down dark paths.

There is nothing irrational about survival of the fittest. It morphs from kill or be killed to rational belief in the right of self defense.

I don't think 'using science to inform gun control' --> 'eugenics' is an argument that merits a response.

Please tell me that if you somehow found yourself in a situation that the use of a gun could save an innocent life threatened by some psychopath, you would not use it. Kindly allow others to be so prepared if they are willing to deal with the risks.
They are inflicting risks on others as well and as is already established those risks exceed the benefits by a very large margin.

I think you might find this amusing though, and it's something you should share with people who believe similarly to you. Research into 'defensive gun use', which is essentially what you are describing here, found that when asking for details of these encounters a very large percentage of 'defensive' gun uses reported were actually crimes in and of themselves even when assuming everything they said was 100% true. We know people often shade their recollections to make themselves look better so it says a lot when so many of these defenders are just committing more crimes.

Worry about how to create a nation populated by more responsible less mentally ill people. That's were the big gains in reduction of gun deaths will come.
'Why don't we just cure mental illness instead?' is a ludicrous argument because we lack the understanding and means as a society to do it. As most of the rest of the developed world has shown we absolutely have the ability to limit access to guns. I prefer we stick with reality.
 
Furthermore it doesn't just say the right to own but the right to bear them. I don't see how all you hypocrites who are against the right to bear arms are perfectly content to buy and sell and profit from this wonderful land our government affords us have brought it forth upon this new continent by killing all the original communists who never stuck a flag in it claiming ownership and by means of all those very deadly guns and small pox blankets etc by which we were able to do it. Thank your lucky 13 colony stars for that genocide.

Anybody up for giving it back and going back where we came from?
 
To expand on this, I was an NRA Coach. Ive worked on several private gun ranges as such, and taught mostly kids ages 6-17yo on gun safety, range etiquette, proper firearm safety and storage, and proper firing techniques.
But why not push this proper training before one can be a gun holder? Why accept one has a “right” to a gun once they turn 18 crap. While it won’t stop suicide or domestic violence. Most of these school shootings would be stopped if one must pass a training course/license/insurance. We’d eliminate the irresponsible gun owners this way.
 
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