Guns Are Number 1!

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

More Guns!!!!!

Guns Have Overtaken Cars as Leading Cause of Traumatic Deaths in the U.S.

Gizmodo|50 minutes ago
Gun-related fatalities have surpassed car crashes as the leading cause of deaths from physical trauma, according to new research. In recent years, more lives—and years of life—were lost to firearms than to motor vehicles.

 

[iRONic]

Tennessee sez "You ain't seen nothing yet, bbb baby!"

 

[Pohemi]

While Tesla works on self-driving cars, Smith & Wesson is developing a self-targeting, self-shooting gun. It'll be the safest ever!

/s

 

[alien42]

Tennessee sez "You ain't seen nothing yet, bbb baby!"

So does Georgia with so called "constitutional carry" soon being signed into law.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

The majority of overall deaths by gun are from suicide. I really want to see an increase in funding/research/support for mental health. I think that treating the underlying problem might result in an improvement.

The majority of homicide deaths by gun are related to the war on drugs and the violent black market that it sustains. I think that treating drug addiction as a medical/mental health issue instead of a criminal/punishment issue could reduce or eliminate that black market and reduce the number of deaths by guns and improve a whole lot of other things as well.

Yet, I think the knee jerk reaction to an article like this is going to be to demonize gun owners and try to ban some shit which will end up worthlessly ineffective as anything other than a way to "stick it to the other political team".

 

[fskimospy]

The majority of overall deaths by gun are from suicide. I really want to see an increase in funding/research/support for mental health. I think that treating the underlying problem might result in an improvement.

The majority of homicide deaths by gun are related to the war on drugs and the violent black market that it sustains. I think that treating drug addiction as a medical/mental health issue instead of a criminal/punishment issue could reduce or eliminate that black market and reduce the number of deaths by guns and improve a whole lot of other things as well.

Yet, I think the knee jerk reaction to an article like this is going to be to demonize gun owners and try to ban some shit which will end up worthlessly ineffective as anything other than a way to "stick it to the other political team".

Making guns more difficult to own would have a large effect in reducing suicides. So sure, increase mental health funding but also let’s make it harder to own guns.

Research indicates most people who attempt suicide and survive do not attempt it again, it is usually a moment of unique psychological distress. Therefore, the lethality of the means available to them is really important and guns are really in a league of their own in terms of lethality as duh, they are designed with the goal of killing things in mind.

 

[sandorski]

Something meant to Kill, kills. Details at 11.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

So sure, increase mental health funding but also let’s make it harder to own guns. Research indicates most people who attempt suicide and survive do not attempt it again, it is usually a moment of unique psychological distress.

If you look at suicide rates in nations vs gun ownership rates, they don't seem to track each other at all. That doesn't mean that your statement is wrong. Yet this suggests that there are likely underlying factors that are more significant to suicide rates than gun availability. For example, see suicide rates in countries such as South Korea despite a lack of private gun ownership there. I still strongly advocate a mental health approach and an attempt to deal with the decision to commit suicide instead of trying to remove access to the method of suicide.

Making guns more difficult to own would have a large effect in reducing suicides.

It all depends on what you are proposing in "Making guns more difficult to own". That is vague. It could literally be anything from increased mental health background checks all the way up to complete banning and criminalization of private gun ownership.. Do you have a specific proposal that you like and do you have any thoughts on how many suicides it may prevent?

...they are designed with the goal of killing things in mind.

If that's what they are designed for then they are shit at doing their job since they almost never do the job they are designed for when they are actually used. Like a rounding error of a rounding error of a rounding error from 0 times. Either they aren't designed with killing humans as a main purpose or humans are less evil than we think since they have found better uses for this death machine than killing.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

OK gunners, jaw on this ......


'Stand Your Ground' Laws Linked to 11% Spike in US Gun Homicides: Study

Common Dreams|1 day ago
The enactment of SYG laws contributed to an especially pronounced rise in firearm homicide rates in many Southern states that were quick to adopt the laws. Published Monday in JAMA Network Open, a peer-reviewed medical journal, the study compares homicide ...



'Stand Your Ground' Laws Linked to Increase in Homicides: Study

thecrimereport.org|14 hours ago
Stand Your Ground (SYG) laws, fiercely debated as a flashpoint about gun violence, self-defense, and racial profiling, may actually lead to hundreds of additional homicides each year, according ...

 

[Moonbeam]

As a rational thinker my suggestion for reducing gun violence would be to include a suicide tablet with every gun sale. Frankly, however, if you really want to reduce the number of armed people in the US the practice should be encouraged.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

OK gunners, jaw on this ......


'Stand Your Ground' Laws Linked to 11% Spike in US Gun Homicides: Study

Common Dreams|1 day ago
The enactment of SYG laws contributed to an especially pronounced rise in firearm homicide rates in many Southern states that were quick to adopt the laws. Published Monday in JAMA Network Open, a peer-reviewed medical journal, the study compares homicide ...



'Stand Your Ground' Laws Linked to Increase in Homicides: Study

thecrimereport.org|14 hours ago
Stand Your Ground (SYG) laws, fiercely debated as a flashpoint about gun violence, self-defense, and racial profiling, may actually lead to hundreds of additional homicides each year, according ...

justifiable homicide

www.law.cornell.edu

Justifiable homicide

Definition of Justifiable homicide in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

Nothing bad about a homicide when it's justifiable. Just look at recent cases when someone used a gun in self defense.

 

[pmv]

Nothing bad about a homicide when it's justifiable.

That statement right there demonstrates what's wrong with conservative Americans. Conservative Americans, love death. Death is not a bad thing for them, it's something they crave, both for themselves and for others. As seen in the response to the pandemic and vaccines, or to climate change, Americans like Taj love and worship death - the more of it there is, the better, as far as they are concerned. Thanatosites, the lot of them.

Only Fundamentalist Muslims rival them in that regard. Even the ancient Greeks didn't bother worshippling Thanatos (as among the Gods he was seen as not being able to do anything for you).

 

[NWRMidnight]

justifiable homicide

www.law.cornell.edu

Justifiable homicide

Definition of Justifiable homicide in the Legal Dictionary by The Free Dictionary

legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com

Nothing bad about a homicide when it's justifiable. Just look at recent cases when someone used a gun in self defense.

Self defense is not homicide. I suggest you learn what homicide means before you attempt to talk about justification.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

^^ Well, yes it is.

Homicide legal definition of homicide

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide
Homicide. The killing of one human being by another human being. Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder.Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts.


That's why they call it 'justifiable homicide'.

 

[sportage]

WELL... I think I have the right to own nukes.
Doesn't the constitution say RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS and one could argue that nukes fall under ARMS. I mean, how could the founding fathers have known about NUKES way back when, so surely to bear arms includes to bear nukes.
Once a nuke can be invented that can fit in a shoebox, I WANT ONE. And the NRA will want me to have one. We know that....
Anything that blows up or causes death and mass destruction the NRA is all for.
I don't want to go shopping at Walmart packin a gun, I want to go shopping at Walmart packin a nuke!
And once I have my nukes, just let the neighbors dog dare poop on my lawn.

 

[NWRMidnight]

^^ Well, yes it is.

Homicide legal definition of homicide

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide
Homicide. The killing of one human being by another human being. Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder.Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts.


That's why they call it 'justifiable homicide'.

Self-defense
The use of force to protect oneself from an attempted injury by another. If justified, self-defense is a defense to a number of crimes and torts involving force, including murder, assault and battery.


Homicide can be one of many results from defending yourself. You can shoot some one with a gun in self defense, which is the example he used, and it not kill them.

Self defense is not homicide, it's not even an action, it's a justification for the use of force. If you kill them while defending yourself, It's the reason or defense of why the homicide took place, which if proven leads to a justifiable homicide. But the justification (self defense) or the reason such force was used, in itself is not homicide.


Edit:
I will admit, in responding to him, I was purposely playing on his words.

Why?

Because he believes that taking another person's life is an acceptable solution and ok, if you can find the means to justify it. (History is full of nut cases who in their mind have justified those they have killed). Then attempts to defend that belief using the example of shooting someone in self defense. But does shooting someone, even if he believes it's justified as self defense, equal a homicide? No! Because the act of shooting someone does not mean you killed them, nor does the act of defending one's self mean you killed them.

His own poorly worded example shows that self defense is nothing more than a justification for the use of force, where the result of that force, lead to a homicide.

If self defense meant homicide (one human killing another human), the definition would say the use of force to kill another human, meaning death is always the end result. But it doesn't, it says the use of force to protect ones self from harm. Which is why the definition of self defense is just a justification for the force used that resulted in a homicide. So again self defense is not homicide. Killing someone is homicides, self defense just justification for the force used.


Sorry for the long drawn out response.

 

[fskimospy]

If you look at suicide rates in nations vs gun ownership rates, they don't seem to track each other at all. That doesn't mean that your statement is wrong. Yet this suggests that there are likely underlying factors that are more significant to suicide rates than gun availability. For example, see suicide rates in countries such as South Korea despite a lack of private gun ownership there. I still strongly advocate a mental health approach and an attempt to deal with the decision to commit suicide instead of trying to remove access to the method of suicide.

I don’t think that’s the right way to look at it. Sure, lots of things affect suicide rates, like culture, mental health, etc. The question is if guns do and the answer is an unequivocal ‘yes’. They are also a risk factor for being the victim of homicide, by the way

ACP Journals

Data were pooled from 16 observational studies that assessed the odds of suicide or homicide, yielding pooled ORs of 3.24 (95% CI, 2.41 to 4.40) and 2.00 (CI, 1.56 to 3.02), respectively.

It all depends on what you are proposing in "Making guns more difficult to own". That is vague. It could literally be anything from increased mental health background checks all the way up to complete banning and criminalization of private gun ownership.. Do you have a specific proposal that you like and do you have any thoughts on how many suicides it may prevent?

I personally think we should ban all private gun ownership in the home as they serve no useful purpose there (see above). That being said I’m a pragmatic person so broadly speaking I support any and all measures to lessen gun ownership. Pick whatever one is most palatable to you and I’m for it!

If that's what they are designed for then they are shit at doing their job since they almost never do the job they are designed for when they are actually used. Like a rounding error of a rounding error of a rounding error from 0 times. Either they aren't designed with killing humans as a main purpose or humans are less evil than we think since they have found better uses for this death machine than killing.

They are 100% designed for killing things, yes. I think the history of their invention leaves zero doubt of that.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I recalled reading about the coal gas stoves being used in suicides in the U.K. bitd. And how changing over to low carbon monoxide gas significantly reduced suicides. I think the insult was "Go stick your head in the oven!" As that was how many took their own lives. This Harvard link references it, I will link to the Means reduction saves lives section - Harvard School of Public Health link

It covers firearms access in the means matter too.

 

[Ajay]

Tennessee sez "You ain't seen nothing yet, bbb baby!"

I kinda wanted to laugh but...

 

[eelw]

WELL... I think I have the right to own nukes.
Doesn't the constitution say RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS and one could argue that nukes fall under ARMS. I mean, how could the founding fathers have known about NUKES way back when, so surely to bear arms includes to bear nukes.
Once a nuke can be invented that can fit in a shoebox, I WANT ONE. And the NRA will want me to have one. We know that....
Anything that blows up or causes death and mass destruction the NRA is all for.
I don't want to go shopping at Walmart packin a gun, I want to go shopping at Walmart packin a nuke!
And once I have my nukes, just let the neighbors dog dare poop on my lawn.

Yeah I'm surprised this argument hasn't happen yet. The whole 2A was rights to bear arms against a well armed militia. Well the government has drones and nukes. Why shouldn't the average citizen have it also!!!!!

 

[Pohemi]

Yeah I'm surprised this argument hasn't happen yet. The whole 2A was rights to bear arms against as part of a well armed militia. Well the government has drones and nukes. Why shouldn't the average citizen have it also!!!!!

A well-armed militia was comprised of citizens, seperate from the government/military. The idea was that state militias could/would stand up to a tyrannical federal government. Just nitpicking the one detail there, but your point was understood. :thumbsup:

 

[eelw]

A well-armed militia was comprised of citizens, seperate from the government/military. The idea was that state militias could/would stand up to a tyrannical federal government. Just nitpicking the one detail there

Lol I’m Canadian.

 

[Pohemi]

Yeah I didn't want to sound like YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS RABBLE RABBLE, lol. I did understand and agree with your notion though.

 

[pauldun170]

Recap

Decadeslong gap in gun violence research funding has lasting impact

The Dickey Amendment prohibited use of federal funds to "advocate or promote gun control," leading to the elimination of all CDC funding for firearm-related research.

abcnews.go.com

Keep in mind that all it takes is a flip back to GOP control in congress to squash research again.

 

[Commodus]

Nothing bad about a homicide when it's justifiable. Just look at recent cases when someone used a gun in self defense.

There's a basic flaw here: you're assuming that most or all of the additional homicides were justifiable, and the study doesn't indicate as much.

If anything, it raises the concern that people in SYG states might kill where it wasn't necessary, or even use SYG as an excuse to commit murder. Remember, the racists who murdered Ahmaud Arbery tried to justify it based on vague, unfounded suspicions; it's not stretching at all to suspect that others might use the same excuse.