Guns Are Number 1!

[pauldun170]

The majority of overall deaths by gun are from suicide. I really want to see an increase in funding/research/support for mental health. I think that treating the underlying problem might result in an improvement.

Well that's easy.
Avoid voting Republicans into congress until they get out of this jackass phase they seem to be stuck in.
Since they have this united front on "supporting Trump" and Trump tried big time to slash mental health spending you can only assume that all these congress folk proudly proclaiming Trump to be their guy must agree with his ideas about public funding of mental health research is the way to go.

 

[Aikouka]

Making guns more difficult to own would have a large effect in reducing suicides. So sure, increase mental health funding but also let’s make it harder to own guns.

This is just my own personal thoughts on it, but to a degree... sure; however, I think that those that are searching for the "easy answer" to ending their pain will try anything plausible and available. Also, I think they search for the least painful method to avoid having to suffer more. (In other words, I don't suspect you'd find as many that want to mimic 13 Reasons Why.)

I don't really talk about this much, but I tried to kill myself when I was younger with a gun. A friend's mom knew that I wasn't doing well, and called me up to talk to me, which helped me out of that. Honestly, I look back at that moment as one of the dumbest things that I've ever done... or I guess you could say almost did. That's the reason why I get so irate whenever I hear some kid just flagrantly tossing around suicide as their means of solving their problem. The fact that I was overreacting in the typical teen way is part of what irks me so much about that situation, but it's also that I was running away from a problem rather than being willing to work on it. It's a terrible habit to get into... just trying to avoid confrontation.

I think part of my problem was that I was almost always emotionally immature and had a bad grasp on social norms. I eventually figured out my own problem, which was that I was "too much" for most people. I needed to calm down, avoid interjecting, or just simply learn to shut up sometimes. Realizing that is what has directed my approach on this. To be clear, I don't think my situation necessarily applies to every struggling child/teen, but it's likely worthwhile to consider. My thought is that we don't necessarily do a good job at teaching kids to navigate situations whether these are negative situations or just standard social situations. With that, I find it frustrating when I get push back against being honest with kids about how their behavior may not be accepted amongst their peers. For example, I noticed how one teen would almost consistently base all conversations about themselves or their own interests. I think most would agree that it's technically not a bad thing; however, it's not usually something that I would consider socially accepted.

Anyway, I do think that guns serve as a quick and painless option for suicide, but I do see plenty of value in working with kids or even adults in trying to mediate their issues. To be clear, I'm not a psychologist or anything to that effect, so this is mostly based around my own experience, and how I've spent time trying to understand my own issues whether past or present.

 

[MrSquished]

If you look at suicide rates in nations vs gun ownership rates, they don't seem to track each other at all. That doesn't mean that your statement is wrong. Yet this suggests that there are likely underlying factors that are more significant to suicide rates than gun availability. For example, see suicide rates in countries such as South Korea despite a lack of private gun ownership there. I still strongly advocate a mental health approach and an attempt to deal with the decision to commit suicide instead of trying to remove access to the method of suicide.



It all depends on what you are proposing in "Making guns more difficult to own". That is vague. It could literally be anything from increased mental health background checks all the way up to complete banning and criminalization of private gun ownership.. Do you have a specific proposal that you like and do you have any thoughts on how many suicides it may prevent?



If that's what they are designed for then they are shit at doing their job since they almost never do the job they are designed for when they are actually used. Like a rounding error of a rounding error of a rounding error from 0 times. Either they aren't designed with killing humans as a main purpose or humans are less evil than we think since they have found better uses for this death machine than killing.

To claim guns are not designed to kill people and then aren't very good at it means you are just certifiable. The amount of cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty to state that is insane.

 

[nakedfrog]

While Tesla works on self-driving cars, Smith & Wesson is developing a self-targeting, self-shooting gun. It'll be the safest ever!

/s

A strap on every hip and an ED-209 in every school, that's how you solve our gun violence problem!

 

[pmv]

I recalled reading about the coal gas stoves being used in suicides in the U.K. bitd. And how changing over to low carbon monoxide gas significantly reduced suicides. I think the insult was "Go stick your head in the oven!" As that was how many took their own lives. This Harvard link references it, I will link to the Means reduction saves lives section - Harvard School of Public Health link

It covers firearms access in the means matter too.

Also the case with rules preventing people buying large quantities of over-the-counter painkillers at a time. Surprising, on one level, as you'd think anyone determined to take their own life would not be deterred by the need to make multiple trips to the shop to buy separate packages (at a slightly-higher cost), and to then have to labouriously pop them all out of the foil blister trays they come in. But seems a lot of the time such overdoses were impluse decisions and they would just grab the large economy-size bottle of paracetamol from the cabinet and neck the lot.

Also probably reflected in the suicide rates of doctors and farmers - both professions that have access to the means.

 

[pmv]

A strap on every hip and an ED-209 in every school, that's how you solve our gun violence problem!

By coincidence, the ED-209 is also my preferred solution for inconsiderate parking.

 

[Moonbeam]

The actual cause of suicide is you. None of you recognize that you will never realize why people kill themselves and so none of you have the slightest idea what to do about it, how to prevent it, how to help those who will fall victim from it not to become victims. Because of your own personal responsibility in the matter, you will flail about looking for some external reason to pin the blame on so you never have to look at yourselves or recognize your agency in this.

You are humanity and you are asleep, upside down in the world.

 

[Pohemi]

The actual cause of suicide is you. None of you recognize that you will never realize why people kill themselves and so none of you have the slightest idea what to do about it, how to prevent it, how to help those who will fall victim from it not to become victims.

But you're going to tell us that you do? /sigh

'Nobody else on earth suffers from depression or might possibly understand the reasonings or justifications for committing suicide. But it's your fault if someone else does it because you can't possibly understand.'

This shit might make sense in your own head as stream of thought, but it comes out on the forums as nonsense. Sure, you can keep claiming we're all just blind/asleep/broken/fearful and that's why none of us here 'get it'. Pretend you have some mystical knowledge that only you have gained/experienced.

 

[Aikouka]

To claim guns are not designed to kill people and then aren't very good at it means you are just certifiable. The amount of cognitive dissonance and intellectual dishonesty to state that is insane.

I try to be fair about my wording, and I think it's fair to say that at times it's also just being pedantic too, but I usually just say that guns are a tool of destruction. That destruction can be for killing whether it's another person or an animal (hunting). It can also be used for non-violent things such as recreation (target shooting). However, in all instances, its nature is to cause damage to the target with little action from the user. I think that latter part is the real stickler, and it's one reason why we worry more about things like gun safety than knife safety even though knives are arguably tools of destruction too.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Ah, 2018, pretty sure that's changed since as car fatalities are trending up hard. And its because of the same reason gun deaths aren't being dealt with, people wanting to feel tough by carrying guns and driving SUVs/trucks to make up for their lack of masculinity. Until we deal with the toxic masculinity mindset that's so pervasive we're not gonna make real progress, we're just gonna keep pushing this behavior somewhere else.

 

[fskimospy]

This is just my own personal thoughts on it, but to a degree... sure; however, I think that those that are searching for the "easy answer" to ending their pain will try anything plausible and available. Also, I think they search for the least painful method to avoid having to suffer more. (In other words, I don't suspect you'd find as many that want to mimic 13 Reasons Why.)

You are basically correct, the thing is that when the most lethal device possible (a gun) is not available people will attempt suicide with less lethal methods and those are more likely to fail, which is a great thing!

I don't really talk about this much, but I tried to kill myself when I was younger with a gun. A friend's mom knew that I wasn't doing well, and called me up to talk to me, which helped me out of that. Honestly, I look back at that moment as one of the dumbest things that I've ever done... or I guess you could say almost did. That's the reason why I get so irate whenever I hear some kid just flagrantly tossing around suicide as their means of solving their problem. The fact that I was overreacting in the typical teen way is part of what irks me so much about that situation, but it's also that I was running away from a problem rather than being willing to work on it. It's a terrible habit to get into... just trying to avoid confrontation.

I think part of my problem was that I was almost always emotionally immature and had a bad grasp on social norms. I eventually figured out my own problem, which was that I was "too much" for most people. I needed to calm down, avoid interjecting, or just simply learn to shut up sometimes. Realizing that is what has directed my approach on this. To be clear, I don't think my situation necessarily applies to every struggling child/teen, but it's likely worthwhile to consider. My thought is that we don't necessarily do a good job at teaching kids to navigate situations whether these are negative situations or just standard social situations. With that, I find it frustrating when I get push back against being honest with kids about how their behavior may not be accepted amongst their peers. For example, I noticed how one teen would almost consistently base all conversations about themselves or their own interests. I think most would agree that it's technically not a bad thing; however, it's not usually something that I would consider socially accepted.

It makes me really happy to hear that you're not only apparently feeling better but that you were able to see the source of your problem and grow beyond it. I lost one of my best friends to gun suicide when we were in our mid-20's so this is personal for me as well.

I love to hear stories where people who were in such a bad place but were able to transcend it and thrive. My sincere congratulations and I hope you have lots of happy days ahead of you.

Anyway, I do think that guns serve as a quick and painless option for suicide, but I do see plenty of value in working with kids or even adults in trying to mediate their issues. To be clear, I'm not a psychologist or anything to that effect, so this is mostly based around my own experience, and how I've spent time trying to understand my own issues whether past or present.

Yeah I mean if you are really determined to kill yourself a gun will do the job - but just like with you so many suicide attempts are from a moment of madness and once you get past it life gets better. I'd rather more people had that chance.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Ah, 2018, pretty sure that's changed since ...

There's always a lag in studies of at least a year or two. News reports indicate domestic violence is way up in the last year or so, so we'll see how that translates in future gun violence studies.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Well that's easy.
Avoid voting Republicans into congress ...

... and putting them on the Bench.

 

[pmv]

The actual cause of suicide is you. None of you recognize that you will never realize why people kill themselves and so none of you have the slightest idea what to do about it, how to prevent it, how to help those who will fall victim from it not to become victims. Because of your own personal responsibility in the matter, you will flail about looking for some external reason to pin the blame on so you never have to look at yourselves or recognize your agency in this.

You are humanity and you are asleep, upside down in the world.

Downright tasteless to use such a subject as a means of boasting about your imagined superior mystical insight. Your ego is really out of control. Now back to ignore with you.

 

[Moonbeam]

But you're going to tell us that you do? /sigh

'Nobody else on earth suffers from depression or might possibly understand the reasonings or justifications for committing suicide. But it's your fault if someone else does it because you can't possibly understand.'

This shit might make sense in your own head as stream of thought, but it comes out on the forums as nonsense. Sure, you can keep claiming we're all just blind/asleep/broken/fearful and that's why none of us here 'get it'. Pretend you have some mystical knowledge that only you have gained/experienced.

Back to the only me stuff again. Really? You saw nothing in common with the psychobabble I mumble and the talk I linked to by Watts in the ivermectin thread?

And what is this bs about ‘you’re going to tell us? Really, again. How can you tell anybody anything who is asleep, right? You wake up and then you can tell me.

 

[Moonbeam]

Downright tasteless to use such a subject as a means of boasting about your imagined superior mystical insight. Your ego is really out of control. Now back to ignore with you.

Poor soul. Nobody told him ignorance, self imposed, is a form of suicide. God just imagine how entitled you have to feel to be blown out of the water encountering someone who even hints at the idea there may be information you do not yet have, but could, were you so motivated.

 

[Pohemi]

Back to the only me stuff again. Really? You saw nothing in common with the psychobabble I mumble and the talk I linked to by Watts in the ivermectin thread?

And what is this bs about ‘you’re going to tell us? Really, again. How can you tell anybody anything who is asleep, right? You wake up and then you can tell me.

Yeah, again. Because you're still saying the same dumb shit.

Poor soul. Nobody told him ignorance, self imposed, is a form of suicide. God just imagine how entitled you have to feel to be blown out of the water encountering someone who even hints at the idea there may be information you do not yet have, but could, were you so motivated.

Anytime someone disagrees with your positing, you claim it's because they are ignorant, entitled, and blind to human nature. You say that they could have this knowledge if they only search, and yet NOBODY ELSE IS AWAKE OR KNOWS.

You've been making these statements for years now, and yet it hasn't evolved or made any more sense than it did when it started. In fact, the way it ebbs and flows makes me curious about mental stability.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah, again. Because you're still saying the same dumb shit.

Anytime someone disagrees with your positing, you claim it's because they are ignorant, entitled, and blind to human nature. You say that they could have this knowledge if they only search, and yet NOBODY ELSE IS AWAKE OR KNOWS.

You've been making these statements for years now, and yet it hasn't evolved or made any more sense than it did when it started. In fact, the way it ebbs and flows makes me curious about mental stability.

I am not adverse to showing you what crazy looks like. I lack sufficient ego make sure I always fit the socially accepted liberal motif. I do have a hybrid car, however, and cats that came through the window wearing long pants and a sombrero. I also neglected to mention I heard somewhere that 73 of us sailed into San Francisco Bay, got off their ships and had something strange to say. I think it was maybe something about their glorious egos.

You are a quite rational and thoughtful person, in my unfortunately worthless opinion, but I do believe that if you were to happen on the flip in what you identify your self to be you would be as crazy as I am to other people, but you wouldn't lose any of that capacity.

 

[Pohemi]

I am not adverse to showing you what crazy looks like. I lack sufficient ego make sure I always fit the socially accepted liberal motif. I do have a hybrid car, however, and cats that came through the window wearing long pants and a sombrero. I also neglected to mention I heard somewhere that 73 of us sailed into San Francisco Bay, got off their ships and had something strange to say. I think it was maybe something about their glorious egos.

Facetiousness is contempt. I would know, as I use it regularly.

You are a quite rational and thoughtful person, in my unfortunately worthless opinion, but I do believe that if you were to happen on the flip in what you identify your self to be you would be as crazy as I am to other people, but you wouldn't lose any of that capacity.

See, this is a big part of what bothers me about your rhetoric. In your mind, nobody else has had this experience that is unique only to yourself. No one else understands themselves or anything because they haven't had this experience. And yet, you say that you found this state of being, and lost it again at some point. Do you not think it possible that anyone else has?

What if I told you that I myself had a period of peace, tranquility, universal consciousness, and love? A connection to humanity and possibly the Cosmos. Would you believe me? Does it matter? No.

I'm not running around condescending to anyone who might not have experienced such a state.

You assume a lot, and seemingly don't realize or acknowledge that you are doing so (though it's exactly what I've been trying to point out to you).

 

[hal2kilo]

The actual cause of suicide is you. None of you recognize that you will never realize why people kill themselves and so none of you have the slightest idea what to do about it, how to prevent it, how to help those who will fall victim from it not to become victims. Because of your own personal responsibility in the matter, you will flail about looking for some external reason to pin the blame on so you never have to look at yourselves or recognize your agency in this.

You are humanity and you are asleep, upside down in the world.

The sleeper must awaken.

 

[Moonbeam]

The sleeper must awaken.

Sleep is a state of consciousness based on an illusion, imagining you are someone who does not exist. Awakening is just the realization you are what you are when that identification with that illusionary self ceases to exist. You can call that many things, ego death, surrender, humility, awakening, enlightenment, self realization, etc.

So the sleeper is the ego that seeks. The ‘must’, the drive that is the source of the need, is the ego and so as long as that drive is active there can be no awakening. The awakening can happen of itself when the seeker realizes the impossibility of his or her situation, that there is no different illusion the ego can claim for itself as reality. It is the ego and the ego’s hopeless situation that drain the force of the must. We are in a catch 22. We are in love with our prison and call that prison the self.

 

[Moonbeam]

Pohemi420:
Facetiousness is contempt. I would know, as I use it regularly.
M: I am on an IPad and find it hard to format so I’m doing it in my lazy old way. I don’t know what the above comment about facetiousness is supposed to mean.
P: See, this is a big part of what bothers me about your rhetoric. In your mind, nobody else has had this experience that is unique only to yourself. No one else understands themselves or anything because they haven't had this experience. And yet, you say that you found this state of being, and lost it again at some point. Do you not think it possible that anyone else has?
M: I said I am not alone:
https://www.poehm.com/en/list-of-enlightened-people/. Thanks, because exploring and looking for something to link to here was fun. I did a search on 'A list of people who are enlightened'
M: My experience ended suffering. It did not leave me in a permanent state of unity with the universe as it does for some.
P: What if I told you that I myself had a period of peace, tranquility, universal consciousness, and love? A connection to humanity and possibly the Cosmos. Would you believe me? Does it matter? No. I'm not running around condescending to anyone who might not have experienced such a state.
M: Why wouldn’t I believe you? But you know the rules. Never suggest you have something or others will come to take it from you. They will also accuse you of being an egotist and a braggart. Always keep your head down in poverty or they will say you are greedy. Always practice self-deprecation or you could get whacked like a mole. I know these rules. But since I seem to be less interested in what others think of me and more interested in pointing out there is a self imposed prison we are in we can be free of, and knowing so from personal experience, I would rather face you charges of egotistic condescension than keep silent about that possibility.
Perhaps you don't really believe that you experienced such a state or it later let you down. I have no idea but not wanting it for others is not something I understand.
P: You assume a lot, and seemingly don't realize or acknowledge that you are doing so (though it's exactly what I've been trying to point out to you).

M: That’s not the question. The question is that if you have experienced such a state, why on earth aren’t you working so others can have one too. Are you worried about breaking the known rules I spoke of above? You are trying to point out something to me I am not concerned about. I know I know things by knowing I know nothing and I know they are good to know so honest expression takes a higher priority.
Your assertion that my conviction that altered states of conscious that are transformative and experienced inwardly as blessings, for ease of expression, are expressed by me as declarations of some ego needing someone to feel superior to are absurd. I am already profoundly aware that my inner state today is infinitely superior to what it once was has been thorougly achieved. I am a winner. I won. I have the golden ring. How could me convincing some slub like you of my superiority possibly have any worth when the love you get is equal to the love you give?[/QUOTE]

 

[Denly]

Great another quarterly gun thread pop up, I don't own a gun and have no desire to own one - I had shot maybe 100 rounds in my life. But let me ask all the gun nuts here saying "self defends" or A2, I can understand handgun, shortgun and single action that covers self defends and hunting but how do people justify large caliber, semi/full auto, silencer, sniper rifle...etc?

 

[sandorski]

Great another quarterly gun thread pop up, I don't own a gun and have no desire to own one - I had shot maybe 100 rounds in my life. But let me ask all the gun nuts here saying "self defends" or A2, I can understand handgun, shortgun and single action that covers self defends and hunting but how do people justify large caliber, semi/full auto, silencer, sniper rifle...etc?

Political Discourse, apparently.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Self defense is not homicide. I suggest you learn what homicide means before you attempt to talk about justification.

Obviously both the legal links i posted disagree with you, dumbass.