Gun Owners:

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Stefan
Guns are the most cowardly weapon man has ever invented (well maybe next to a nuclear bomb). I don't mind if people use a gun for target practice or even killing an occasional deer/duck, etc IF you plan on eating it. (You "sport hunters" who kill animals and just leave the bodies disgust me).

Anyone who uses a gun on a human is a coward. The criminal who uses one to rob a bank is a coward and the person who tries to defend themselves is a coward, although I can see justification in having a gun to protect yourself. There is no respect for life when you use a gun. It's too easy to kill someone.

I guess you could say the same thing for a bow then. They were both devised to hurl a projectile at speed and with accuracy.

A gun is a tool. How you use it defines whether or not you are cowardly. To ambush someone in order to shoot them dead is cowardly. To defend yourself from a dangerous attacker is not. For you to call someone who defends themselves a coward just boggles the mind. I guess you would prefer it if the criminals just had open season on citizens, but most of us wouldn't agree with you.

Well I agree with what you are saying and that would have been more fitting for what I was trying to say, however I would like to make a comment. I think that people should be trained in some kind of self defense. A 100lb woman can take down a 250lb man if she knows how to defend herself. Maybe what I should say is that using a gun should be the very last line of defense if everything else fails.

sure a 100lb women can take downa 250lb man. IF that guy has NO training at all and just charges her. then she MIGHT have a chance.

with a gun she has more then a good chance of walking away from it un-harmed.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Stefan
Guns are the most cowardly weapon man has ever invented (well maybe next to a nuclear bomb). I don't mind if people use a gun for target practice or even killing an occasional deer/duck, etc IF you plan on eating it. (You "sport hunters" who kill animals and just leave the bodies disgust me).

Anyone who uses a gun on a human is a coward. The criminal who uses one to rob a bank is a coward and the person who tries to defend themselves is a coward, although I can see justification in having a gun to protect yourself. There is no respect for life when you use a gun. It's too easy to kill someone.

I guess you could say the same thing for a bow then. They were both devised to hurl a projectile at speed and with accuracy.

A gun is a tool. How you use it defines whether or not you are cowardly. To ambush someone in order to shoot them dead is cowardly. To defend yourself from a dangerous attacker is not. For you to call someone who defends themselves a coward just boggles the mind. I guess you would prefer it if the criminals just had open season on citizens, but most of us wouldn't agree with you.

Well I agree with what you are saying and that would have been more fitting for what I was trying to say, however I would like to make a comment. I think that people should be trained in some kind of self defense. A 100lb woman can take down a 250lb man if she knows how to defend herself. Maybe what I should say is that using a gun should be the very last line of defense if everything else fails.

sure a 100lb women can take downa 250lb man. IF that guy has NO training at all and just charges her. then she MIGHT have a chance.

with a gun she has more then a good chance of walking away from it un-harmed.

Like I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Well I agree with what you are saying and that would have been more fitting for what I was trying to say, however I would like to make a comment. I think that people should be trained in some kind of self defense. A 100lb woman can take down a 250lb man if she knows how to defend herself. Maybe what I should say is that using a gun should be the very last line of defense if everything else fails.

You know anything about boxing? Ever hear the sayng "a good little man will never beat a good big man"? If a woman can train in self-defense, so can a man. A gun makes them equal, and if she is the only one in possession of one, a gun makes her more equal, so to speak.

Besides which, you are underestimating the difficulty of counteracting the additional weight and upper body strength of a man versus a woman. It takes a lot of training to defeat a person 2.5x your size, if they know anything about fighting.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Stefan
Guns are the most cowardly weapon man has ever invented (well maybe next to a nuclear bomb). I don't mind if people use a gun for target practice or even killing an occasional deer/duck, etc IF you plan on eating it. (You "sport hunters" who kill animals and just leave the bodies disgust me).

Anyone who uses a gun on a human is a coward. The criminal who uses one to rob a bank is a coward and the person who tries to defend themselves is a coward, although I can see justification in having a gun to protect yourself. There is no respect for life when you use a gun. It's too easy to kill someone.

I guess you could say the same thing for a bow then. They were both devised to hurl a projectile at speed and with accuracy.

A gun is a tool. How you use it defines whether or not you are cowardly. To ambush someone in order to shoot them dead is cowardly. To defend yourself from a dangerous attacker is not. For you to call someone who defends themselves a coward just boggles the mind. I guess you would prefer it if the criminals just had open season on citizens, but most of us wouldn't agree with you.

Well I agree with what you are saying and that would have been more fitting for what I was trying to say, however I would like to make a comment. I think that people should be trained in some kind of self defense. A 100lb woman can take down a 250lb man if she knows how to defend herself. Maybe what I should say is that using a gun should be the very last line of defense if everything else fails.

sure a 100lb women can take downa 250lb man. IF that guy has NO training at all and just charges her. then she MIGHT have a chance.

with a gun she has more then a good chance of walking away from it un-harmed.

Like I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

If they have to draw it they should be ready to shoot.

If they have to shoot htey should be aiming to kill.

 

[Shockwave]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome
Why do you gun owners own guns and shotguns and rifles? Im not bashing you guys, but Im curious what the deal is with this "hobby."..?

Havent read any replies, heres why *I* own them
I enjoy shooting. Period. Its relzaing and fun to me. I use them for trap shooting, target practice, fun shooting, hunting and protection.

Some people play games. Some people collect rocks. I like guns.

 

[Isshinryu]

Originally posted by: Stefan

Like I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

No, the aim should be to prevent any chance of harm...two to the chest, one to the head. I'm not going to take the time to line up a shot "hoping" that it will incapacitate the attacker, I'm going to make sure it does.

 

[Turkish]

Because they will be beat to death without them. Wussies J/K.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Like I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

The only guarantee that the crime will be prevented is to kill. Two to the chest + one to the head, ideally.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: Shanti
I would think Stefan is being sarcastic if I hadn't read some of his other crap on here.

What crap is that?

You mean other than your "the world is evil and everybody is trying to screw me" threads?

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: mangled
So besides hunting and self-defense, what about automatic rifles? You surely don't hunt with an MP5 do you?

No, but they're fun to take down to the range and put a few thousand rounds through on a weekend.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Guns are the most cowardly weapon man has ever invented (well maybe next to a nuclear bomb). I don't mind if people use a gun for target practice or even killing an occasional deer/duck, etc IF you plan on eating it. (You "sport hunters" who kill animals and just leave the bodies disgust me).

Anyone who uses a gun on a human is a coward. The criminal who uses one to rob a bank is a coward and the person who tries to defend themselves is a coward, although I can see justification in having a gun to protect yourself. There is no respect for life when you use a gun. It's too easy to kill someone.

Quite the contrary, guns equalized the human race, allowing stable, long-term freedom to exist in large societies for the first time in history.

Killing has always been easy, whether with fists, a stick, a rock, or a knife. What guns did was equalize the balance of power, making it possible for a woman to defend herself against a man, a runt against a bully, or the common people to defend themselves against a tyrant.

If you would deny an individual the right to protect and defend themselves, it is because you have no respect for human life. You are the coward.

 

[Conky]

Guns don't shoot people, I shoot people! :laugh:

A gun is a tool, like a knife, or a hammer. It's really that simple.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: StefanLike I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

Sorry, but if some psycho is trying to kill me or one of my family members, I don't want him incapacitated. I want him dead.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: dudeman007

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
And if your friend had a knife he could have ended that real quick. You're arguing against yourself. Or are you saying that not only is it dumb to carry a knife, but it's also not 'smart' to carry a walkman? I'm really lost because this doesn't make sense.

Ok people you're not getting it. Look if that guy would have stabbed the other guy, he would have been screwed. First, because he was taken 2 on 1, the guys would have found the knife and used it on him. Second if he did anything, it would only provoke the other guys. It's not safe to carry anything worth some significant money because thugs off the streets will go for anything like that. That's all I'm trying to say.

From personal experience, two guys come up on one guy and the lone guy pulls a knife, unless one of the pair of guys is packing a gun, they'll move on. Criminals arent completely stupid, they'd rather jump the old lady who just cashed her SS check and is on the way to bingo than an armed and alert opponent.

Originally posted by: dudeman007

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: dudeman007
You live in Ohio. WTF happens there. I live in freakin LA. I don't have to carry a freakin knife like an idiot. You act smart on the streets and youll have no worries.

I know you are thinking "Well, dont go to those bad places". But sometimes you have to go to places like that for one reason or another. Or sometimes you live in places like that because you cannot yet afford the rent in a better neighborhood. But I guess since you dont feel the need to carry, no one else should be allowed. And if people carry anything of value on them, they're stupid, because it's better to just give the thugs everything you own and hope they only beat on you a little, right?

You cant always carry around an Akita, though they do make a great equalizer when three guys try to jump you.

This is somewhat true though. Alright I have to say that I am wrong here. But most people are way to over protective of themselves. Many people just don't know what a true bad area is. Also a point the get across is that often if you get beaten up, its often by more than one guy and they will often find your weapon. If that happens, you're screwed.

I dont think being overprotective of yourself is a bad thing, provided you arent paranoid and shooting people that look at you funny. And having people pack guns is a lot safer to those around you, not to mention less messy, than keeping an Akita by your side. Because an Akita on the loose... well, my uncle owned one. Had it been less well trained and loose in the neighborhood, there would have been a lot of dead dogs.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: K1052

I dont know one person or family that owns a gun.

Thats quite a statement. How can you be so sure?

Are you serious?

Yes.

Are you fully certain that every person you know owns absolutely zero firearms?

You can tell who has a gun and sho doesnt. Education, career success, appearance.[/quote]

"Sho" doesn't? So what are you saying, the poorly dressed, unshaven, uneducated slobs on welfare are obviously the people that don't own guns? I would agree with that.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: jjones

Originally posted by: Stefan
Guns are the most cowardly weapon man has ever invented (well maybe next to a nuclear bomb). I don't mind if people use a gun for target practice or even killing an occasional deer/duck, etc IF you plan on eating it. (You "sport hunters" who kill animals and just leave the bodies disgust me).

Anyone who uses a gun on a human is a coward. The criminal who uses one to rob a bank is a coward and the person who tries to defend themselves is a coward, although I can see justification in having a gun to protect yourself. There is no respect for life when you use a gun. It's too easy to kill someone.

I guess you could say the same thing for a bow then. They were both devised to hurl a projectile at speed and with accuracy.

A gun is a tool. How you use it defines whether or not you are cowardly. To ambush someone in order to shoot them dead is cowardly. To defend yourself from a dangerous attacker is not. For you to call someone who defends themselves a coward just boggles the mind. I guess you would prefer it if the criminals just had open season on citizens, but most of us wouldn't agree with you.

Well I agree with what you are saying and that would have been more fitting for what I was trying to say, however I would like to make a comment. I think that people should be trained in some kind of self defense. A 100lb woman can take down a 250lb man if she knows how to defend herself. Maybe what I should say is that using a gun should be the very last line of defense if everything else fails.

And what happens to the 100 lb woman when the 250 lb man is also trained in fighting techniques?

I do think that a gun is typically the last line of defense. However, when facing the unknown, such as a prowler or a burglar, do you want to face that person empty-handed or with something in your hands. Some people would prefer a bat, others of us would prefer something that offers a greater advantage of distance and stopping power.

I know that given a choice of weapons, I'd opt for the gun for the simple reason that I am completely uncertain of how dangerous the encounter may be, and it provides the advantage of addressing the situation at distance, thereby increasing the prospect of a safe outcome for me.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Guns don't shoot people, I shoot people! :laugh:

A gun is a tool, like a knife, or a hammer. It's really that simple.

And you think that's funny? And something to be proud of?

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Like I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

Thank you for PROVING you have no idea WTF you are talking about in regards to guns. Shooting someone in the leg isnt going to do a good job of stopping them. Even if you hit someone in the heart/lungs, they still have about 10 seconds before they can no longer effectively attack. And 10 seconds of fighting with a 250lbs man with one remaining goal in life can be very fatal. You make the decision to shoot someone, you shoot for the biggest target you can see (called center mass, and under most circumstances it is right about or below the bottom of the sternum). You keep shooting till they go down. They get up again? Shoot them again.

Shooting them in the arms/legs only works reliably in the movies. If you have made the decision to shoot, and if you have made the correct decision, you arent playing in a kindergarten sandbox fighting over who gets to play with the Tonka dumptruck first. You pull a gun, it had better be for a serious reason, and it had better be because you are willing to shoot to kill. Once the shooting starts, chances are very good someone is going to walk out under their own power, and someone isnt. Personally, I want to walk away from that, not be carried on a stretcher.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Xiety
Because they will be beat to death without them. Wussies J/K.

The wussies are the people posting their true thoughts (however ignorant and misinformed) in the thread, then hiding behind the "J/K."

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Xiety
Because they will be beat to death without them. Wussies J/K.

Someday, someone may kill me with my own gun. But they'll have to beat me to death with it, because I'll have unloaded it at them. And most people dont swing very hard with eight 45ACP +P hollowpoints in (or through) them.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Stefan
Like I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

The only guarantee that the crime will be prevented is to kill. Two to the chest + one to the head, ideally.

This is another argument... but crime cannot be prevented with any sense of justice. You could stop the criminal while in the act, or try, convict, and punish him after the fact, but to put "two to the chest + one to the head" before any criminal act has been committed would be a crime in itself.

This is yet one more argument why law-abiding citizens have the right to defend themselves, as the police can only come along after the crime has already occurred, and are rarely any help during the actual criminal act itself. With all due respect, I think of the police as being like garbagemen (though on a much higher level). They clean up the mess.

 

[Jfrag Teh Foul]

Reasons...

1. I am a 5'5" white guy weighing in at 150lbs... not that menacing to a potential theif/vagrant wanting to take my stuff or just do harm to my family or myself.

2. It is my right to own such a weapon.

3. I enjoy target shooting (just bought a Walther P22 which, while not a good target gun is a blast to shoot).

4. .40 is much more scary than a "HEEEE-YAH!!!"

5. Too lazy/busy/old to mess with taking a "HEEEE-YAH!!!" class.

6. Just plain like the feeling of shooting a well made weapon.

 

[bradruth]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: bradruth

Originally posted by: Stefan
Like I said, it should be a last line of defense. Even then, the aim should be to prevent a crime and not to kill.

The only guarantee that the crime will be prevented is to kill. Two to the chest + one to the head, ideally.

This is another argument... but crime cannot be prevented with any sense of justice. You could stop the criminal while in the act, or try, convict, and punish him after the fact, but to put "two to the chest + one to the head" before any criminal act has been committed would be a crime in itself.

This is yet one more argument why law-abiding citizens have the right to defend themselves, as the police can only come along after the crime has already occurred, and are rarely any help during the actual criminal act itself. With all due respect, I think of the police as being like garbagemen (though on a much higher level). They clean up the mess.

Our response time is mostly dependant on the speed with which people contact us. Most of the time it's a delay in calling that makes it so we don't arrive while the crime is in-progress.

You have to remember that our response time isn't just the time it takes for us to drive there after we get the radio call, it's the time from the initial call, determination by the dispatcher, radio contact from dispatch to the police unit, and THEN our driving time.

Lawful self-defense or defense of others precludes any criminal act when taking down a would-be criminal.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Jfrag
Reasons...

1. I am a 5'5" white guy weighing in at 150lbs... not that menacing to a potential theif/vagrant wanting to take my stuff or just do harm to my family or myself.

2. It is my right to own such a weapon.

3. I enjoy target shooting (just bought a Walther P22 which, while not a good target gun is a blast to shoot).

4. .40 is much more scary than a "HEEEE-YAH!!!"

5. Too lazy/busy/old to mess with taking a "HEEEE-YAH!!!" class.

6. Just plain like the feeling of shooting a well made weapon.

I've been thinking of picking up a Walther P22, and getting rid of my Magnum Research Mountain Eagle. How do you like the P22?

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Xiety

Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Guns don't shoot people, I shoot people! :laugh:

A gun is a tool, like a knife, or a hammer. It's really that simple.

And you think that's funny? And something to be proud of?

Panties a little tight, are they?