Greta is chosen as Time's Person of the Year

[ElFenix]

No. Im just saying the solution is not as simple as cleaning up the environment. Sometimes the solution can be worse than the cause. Fact is, science is always changing. We need to roll slowly and cautiously.

this bullshit is why the century we had to figure out how to get off carbon and and onto something else is now down to 10 years.

 

[Jaskalas]

Do you personally believe humans are responsible for 100% of climate change?

Per my 4 step guide, yes... yes I do confirm that humans are 100% responsible for Global Warming.

See #2, Direct Observation of Carbon Dioxide’s Increasing Greenhouse Effect at the Earth’s Surface

We spew massive amounts of CO2. We measure increasing amounts of it, contrary to earth's condition in the recent million(s) of years. We also measure the increased solar radiation hitting the ground from it. And everything to do with rising temps is matching the trend. All the data points to humans. There are no alternative scientific theories. Zero Zip Zilch Nada.

Deniers are broke.

 

[VRAMdemon]

The entire right-wing media ecosystem exemplified by people like Carlson, Shapiro, and Limbaugh has been taking money from oil companies to spread propaganda for a very long time. Every single one of those people has close ties to institutions run by the Koch brothers, who stand to profit from global warming denialism. The Daily Caller is funded by them. Glenn Beck and The Blaze are funded by them. And so on and so forth.

Like Trump...Climate deniers will lie, but are more bullshitters than liars. Both liars and bullshitters want you to believe that they are telling the truth. And both want to get away with something. Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic are more excessive than his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic.

With climate change, I don't think that Rush Limbaugh (for example) knows what the truth is. He doesn't care what the truth is. His goal is to get you to buy what he's selling. His main tool is convincing you that that truth and falsehoods are matters of taste or partisan affiliation. Once you've bought that, he owns your brain.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

BEHOLD! The majestic powers of virtue signaling and literally doing absolutely nothing beneficial to society.

Christ, if this is what people prop up as progress then we sure aren't going to be making any.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

How do you know it's not 100? Are you saying you're privy to some scientific information that those who study it professionally lack? This seems like a pretty astounding claim.

If it is 100% man made then I guess the climate never changed in the entire 5 billion or so years of its existence, right?

 

[Paratus]

If it is 100% man made then I guess the climate never changed in the entire 5 billion or so years of its existence, right?

Literally just went through this exact same straw man with @blackangst1.

Of the increase in global temperature observed over the last century or so 100% or more is due to man-made influence. It’s 100% or more because natural forcings have been neutral to slightly cooling.

Nothing in that statement says climate has never changed. Nor does it say climate only changes due to man.

 

[fskimospy]

If it is 100% man made then I guess the climate never changed in the entire 5 billion or so years of its existence, right?

No. It just means you don’t understand the discussion.

 

[ultimatebob]

I would have rather seen the Time person of the year award go to that person on YouTube who convinced people to plant 2 million trees. At least he did something constructive to combat climate change, instead of just stirring the pot for some easy headlines.

Most of us already knew that our elected officials don't really care about climate change and aren't going to make any meaningful changes to fight it. Her little rant at the UN isn't going to change anything.

 

[vi edit]

No. It just means you don’t understand the discussion.

Doesn't want to. Important distinction.

 

[Stryke1983]

If it is 100% man made then I guess the climate never changed in the entire 5 billion or so years of its existence, right?

Assuming you aren't deliberately trying to misunderstand this comment then you should read the thread properly and then you'll understand what it's actually referring to.

 

[blackangst1]

If it is 100% man made then I guess the climate never changed in the entire 5 billion or so years of its existence, right?

That not exactly what the 100% means. There is context.

 

[blackangst1]

The entire right-wing media ecosystem exemplified by people like Carlson, Shapiro, and Limbaugh has been taking money from oil companies to spread propaganda for a very long time. Every single one of those people has close ties to institutions run by the Koch brothers, who stand to profit from global warming denialism. The Daily Caller is funded by them. Glenn Beck and The Blaze are funded by them. And so on and so forth.

Like Trump...Climate deniers will lie, but are more bullshitters than liars. Both liars and bullshitters want you to believe that they are telling the truth. And both want to get away with something. Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic are more excessive than his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic.

With climate change, I don't think that Rush Limbaugh (for example) knows what the truth is. He doesn't care what the truth is. His goal is to get you to buy what he's selling. His main tool is convincing you that that truth and falsehoods are matters of taste or partisan affiliation. Once you've bought that, he owns your brain.

Jesus Christ even a Costco sized foil roll couldn't make a big enough hat for this.

 

[1prophet]

It's called being a world leader. We were heading in a good direction on cooporation with other countries until your boy stepped in to throw a wrench into the gears.

Remember that so called "leading from behind" you people detested when Obama was in office? Like being against Communism that has been turned on its head with Trump

World leaders lead by example, as opposed to do as I say not as I do, especially those from the US who preach global warming while scoping out multi million dollar ocean front property on Martha's Vineyard.

Not passing more rules and regulations for wages, labor and environmental progress domestically but unashamedly use countries like China, India, Bangladesh, etc. in order to by pass those rules because of costs (hit to the pocketbooks of the 1%) and then turn around and virtue signal how environmentally conscious we are.

How about this for a starting solution, all passenger plated trucks and suvs pay a 50-100% surcharge for fuel use,

You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.

www.thedrive.com

Business owned trucks and suv's with commercial plates/tags registered to a real functioning business with business insurance with identified employee/owner drivers per policy are exempt.

You would eliminate many of the “look at me” trucks and steer people to smaller more efficient cars preferably electric.


As for leading by example, this is what it looks like.

The facts: Thunberg’s family consists of her parents, her younger sister and her grandfather. All are involved in some way with theater. Her mother is an opera singer and actress. Her sister is a singer. And her father is an author, actor and producer.

When Thunberg was young, she pressured her parents to reduce their carbon footprint by becoming vegan and giving up flying, which meant an end for her mother’s international career. The family detailed their story in their book “Scenes From the Heart,” which was published in 2018.

Question is how many of our climate change believing liberal democrats especially the wealthier types are willing to make similar personal sacrifices instead of using the republican conservatives as a convenient distraction, so they can virtue signal about climate change while continuing on with their consumerism, the true cause of most pollution including CO2.

 

[Jaskalas]

Question is how many of our climate change believing liberal democrats especially the wealthier types are willing to make similar personal sacrifices instead of using the republican conservatives as a convenient distraction, so they can virtue signal about climate change while continuing on with their consumerism, the true cause of most pollution including CO2.

A deeply disturbing Republican fallacy.
Shall we only allow poor men to raise taxes? After all. I hear Bernie Sanders owns a house. The scandal! The crime! Oh, the hypocrisy!!@!

Except it is not. The fallacy is the bald faced lie told by this narrative. As if we need to contribute to an extreme OR DO NOTHING. That is also a straw man as it ignores the middle ground, with smaller and achievable steps. The time we have to take those steps, and the real world progress we have already made, that we are currently making, and that we can make shortly in the future. A real world solution does not have us abandoning the industrial revolution. But rather, it has us investing in and developing future energy technology.

It takes a push, yes. But it is not so radical as to be implausible.

​

1: Solar and Wind are becoming cheaper than coal. Checkmate.​

2: Electric Vehicles are becoming stronger, better, and cheaper. The replacement of the ICE is nearly upon us.​

Put those two together, and in a generation our world can be unrecognizably clean. On a much better path to curbing rising CO2.

 

[balloonshark]

Remember when the gun lovin' NRA republicans were all about hunting and fishing? I guess that was all bullshit since they're totally ok with trashing the planet now and most of the guns they now own aren't ideal or legal for game. And lord knows their poles haven't got wet in years or they wouldn't be as fucking angry as they constantly are.

Also remember how they were beating the drum of energy independence for national security reasons. It's funny how that only includes US oil and natural gas and not solar, wind, wave, etc. energy. Why not use every available option and lean heavily on the cleaner technologies?

It also boggles the mind how they take up every destructive cause just to be on the opposite side of the dems.

 

[woolfe9998]

Jesus Christ even a Costco sized foil roll couldn't make a big enough hat for this.

Are you serious? You're actually not aware that the fossil fuel industry has spent billions promoting climate denial?

The Climate Denial Machine: How the Fossil Fuel Industry Blocks Climate Action.

Fossil fuel interests have spent millions funding climate change denial â allowing them to protect dirty energy while remaining out of the public eye.

www.climaterealityproject.org

To be exact, a 2019 Influence Map report found that “the five largest publicly-traded oil and gas majors (ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, Chevron, BP, and Total) have invested over $1Bn of shareholder funds in the three years following the Paris Agreement on misleading climate-related branding and lobbying.”

That's $1 billion over just one 3-year time frame and it only tracks five companies.

 

[brycejones]

BEHOLD! The majestic powers of virtue signaling and literally doing absolutely nothing beneficial to society.

Christ, if this is what people prop up as progress then we sure aren't going to be making any.

Virtue signaling -

The term people (usually conservatives) use to attempt to dismiss the actions of those who have more moral character than they do.

 

[brycejones]

World leaders lead by example, as opposed to do as I say not as I do, especially those from the US who preach global warming while scoping out multi million dollar ocean front property on Martha's Vineyard.

Not passing more rules and regulations for wages, labor and environmental progress domestically but unashamedly use countries like China, India, Bangladesh, etc. in order to by pass those rules because of costs (hit to the pocketbooks of the 1%) and then turn around and virtue signal how environmentally conscious we are.

How about this for a starting solution, all passenger plated trucks and suvs pay a 50-100% surcharge for fuel use,

You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume

The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.

www.thedrive.com

Business owned trucks and suv's with commercial plates/tags registered to a real functioning business with business insurance with identified employee/owner drivers per policy are exempt.

You would eliminate many of the “look at me” trucks and steer people to smaller more efficient cars preferably electric.


As for leading by example, this is what it looks like.


Question is how many of our climate change believing liberal democrats especially the wealthier types are willing to make similar personal sacrifices instead of using the republican conservatives as a convenient distraction, so they can virtue signal about climate change while continuing on with their consumerism, the true cause of most pollution including CO2.

Just so you know, your posts are pretty much unreadable in dark mode.

 

[brycejones]

I would have rather seen the Time person of the year award go to that person on YouTube who convinced people to plant 2 million trees. At least he did something constructive to combat climate change, instead of just stirring the pot for some easy headlines.

Most of us already knew that our elected officials don't really care about climate change and aren't going to make any meaningful changes to fight it. Her little rant at the UN isn't going to change anything.

Lordy

 

[blackangst1]

Are you serious? You're actually not aware that the fossil fuel industry has spent billions promoting climate denial?

The Climate Denial Machine: How the Fossil Fuel Industry Blocks Climate Action.

Fossil fuel interests have spent millions funding climate change denial â allowing them to protect dirty energy while remaining out of the public eye.

www.climaterealityproject.org

That's $1 billion over just one 3-year time frame and it only tracks five companies.

Um...nothing was mentioned about lobbying.

 

[HomerJS]

Um...nothing was mentioned about lobbying.

You've done nothing except bitch and moan offering no suggestions on curbing climate change.

Take something reasonable as CAFE standards. You let radio talk show hosts dictate your opinion and you parrot it here. Government regulation BAD. Free market GOOD. Without the government stepping in there was ZERO incentive for auto manufacturers to make engines more efficient.

Try making yourself useful for a change

 

[woolfe9998]

Um...nothing was mentioned about lobbying.

It's not all "lobbying." These companies donate money to conservative think tanks like Heritage foundation who do "studies" claiming that there is no scientific consensus on climate change. Those charts and graphs you see on denial websites and now Fox News were mostly created by conservative think tanks with money from the fossil fuel industry. And they've made their way onto Fox News and other conservative media outlets. Industry->think tanks-> conservatives media->conservative voters. It's all totally symbiotic.

You describing all this as "lobbying" suggests you think they're just lobbying Congress against regulations. Yet they're actively promoting denial just like the tobacco industry did with the harmful effects of smoking. Hell, Exxon finally quit doing it a few years back and publicly apologized for promoting denial.

 

[Muse]

Yea but his concerns werea about production problems not the software.

Right, which makes me think that blaming the software is a red herring. It may not have been the software at all, that may have been a total smoke screen to cover for the terribly dangerous production environment with people working major overtime and making inevitable errors because of it and practices the cut corners on due diligence. Boeing was in a race with Airbus to put out product and they sacrificed safety to the profit motive. That's exactly what the whistle blower was concerned about. He could see the accidents coming before they happened. He alerted the corporate leaders but they refused to acknowledge the dangerous circumstances.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Virtue signaling -

The term people (usually conservatives) use to attempt to dismiss the actions of those who have more moral character than they do.

Good definition.

 

[mect]

I would have rather seen the Time person of the year award go to that person on YouTube who convinced people to plant 2 million trees. At least he did something constructive to combat climate change, instead of just stirring the pot for some easy headlines.

Most of us already knew that our elected officials don't really care about climate change and aren't going to make any meaningful changes to fight it. Her little rant at the UN isn't going to change anything.

Actually, I'd say Greta did far more than the youtube person. Individuals planting trees is not doing anything to solve climate change. The only chance we have of effectively combating climate change is to convince the governments of the world to make a concerted effort to set regulations controlling emissions, advancing the replacement of fossil fuel consumption with alternatives, and possibly investing in carbon capture technologies. All this other stuff in the end is just feel good propaganda that distracts from the need to actually do something that actually stands a chance of succeeding.