Government healthcare was good to me today.

[soulcougher73]

Why would it? The government has claimed responsibility for them.

And if the government didnt? Would the so called free market save them? All you did was deflect his question which is typical here in P&N.

 

[MotF Bane]

And if the government didnt? Would the so called free market save them? All you did was deflect his question which is typical here in P&N.

Speaking of deflection, your post has nothing to do with the OP. :awe:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Somebody just stuff a wad bills into Rider's pockets so he can be happy. Until then I guess we are stuck with him pretending he still gives a shit anymore. I suppose private insurance is run better when the AIDs patient died being denied coverage. Dead people don't leave the pharmacy disappointed.

Indeed they don't. We have one who isn't going to anyone anymore because he died when the Medicaid office enacted new numbers before giving them to the patient and wouldn't give anyone the info needed to bill. I spent quite some time trying to get an answer from the government on that one with no resolution. Just found out that he passed away earlier today.

It was a small item in the grand scheme of things to the bureaucracy.

You don't even know what this is about, do you?

 

[MotF Bane]

Indeed they don't. We have one who isn't going to anyone anymore because he died when the Medicaid office enacted new numbers before giving them to the patient and wouldn't give anyone the info needed to bill. I spent quite some time trying to get an answer from the government on that one with no resolution. Just found out that he passed away earlier today.

It was a small item in the grand scheme of things to the bureaucracy.

You don't even know what this is about, do you?

How long did they take to get those new numbers out? Damn.

 

[soulcougher73]

Speaking of deflection, your post has nothing to do with the OP. :awe:

I was not responding to the OP. I was responding to you. And again you deflect. Typical. Had i quoted the OP then i would have been seeking an answer from him.

 

[Atreus21]

And if the government didnt? Would the so called free market save them? All you did was deflect his question which is typical here in P&N.

It depends on what you mean by save. Did the patients find legal ways to get their medication without the government?

If yes, then I'd say yes, the free market saved them.

 

[MotF Bane]

I was not responding to the OP. I was responding to you. And again you deflect. Typical. Had i quoted the OP then i would have been seeking an answer from him.

Ah, another of the deflect/divert/derail crowd. Worthless.

 

[soulcougher73]

Ah, another of the deflect/divert/derail crowd. Worthless.

You looking in the mirror again? Because that is all you are doing. And going back to your first responce to me your were not even on topic with the OPs topic either so what does that matter if i was not on topic with the OP?

Dont answer because you will just deflect the original question posed once again and again look the fool. I will spare you from answering since you dont have one.

 

[MotF Bane]

It depends on what you mean by save. Did the patients find legal ways to get their medication without the government?

If yes, then I'd say yes, the free market saved them.

Apparently though, the government left them hanging high and dry - perhaps they didn't have enough time available to find a legal alternative?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How long did they take to get those new numbers out? Damn.

The idea was a good one, but as we know there is the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Is a lot of fraud around by some providers and patients. The plan was to reissue all numbers and require everyone to have a photo ID on their card and not give out numbers on the phone. That's a good thing because it would help.

Unfortunately the intent and the regs almost never dovetail. It went into effect by a drop dead date, but the cards were only half issued. Worse, the county case workers were denied the information as well. The ONLY way to get the information was to wait the 5 more weeks it took to get the new card. It was illegal for anyone who had access to the number to give it out.

So this guy had full blown AIDs and an IQ of about 70 on a good day. He was completely helpless and being off his meds that long meant he was going to die. Like I said, I found out today that he had.

Now there is a mechanism where people can get temp cards so it's not happening anymore, but rules are rules no matter the cost.

That's the problem, but anyone who has dealings with regulatory agencies would know how common it is.

 

[MotF Bane]

The idea was a good one, but as we know there is the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Is a lot of fraud around by some providers and patients. The plan was to reissue all numbers and require everyone to have a photo ID on their card and not give out numbers on the phone. That's a good thing because it would help.

Unfortunately the intent and the regs almost never dovetail. It went into effect by a drop dead date, but the cards were only half issued. Worse, the county case workers were denied the information as well. The ONLY way to get the information was to wait the 5 more weeks it took to get the new card. It was illegal for anyone who had access to the number to give it out.

So this guy had full blown AIDs and an IQ of about 70 on a good day. He was completely helpless and being off his meds that long meant he was going to die. Like I said, I found out today that he had.

Now there is a mechanism where people can get temp cards so it's not happening anymore, but rules are rules no matter the cost.

That's the problem, but anyone who has dealings with regulatory agencies would know how common it is.

Five weeks.

 

[soulcougher73]

The idea was a good one, but as we know there is the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Is a lot of fraud around by some providers and patients. The plan was to reissue all numbers and require everyone to have a photo ID on their card and not give out numbers on the phone. That's a good thing because it would help.

Unfortunately the intent and the regs almost never dovetail. It went into effect by a drop dead date, but the cards were only half issued. Worse, the county case workers were denied the information as well. The ONLY way to get the information was to wait the 5 more weeks it took to get the new card. It was illegal for anyone who had access to the number to give it out.

So this guy had full blown AIDs and an IQ of about 70 on a good day. He was completely helpless and being off his meds that long meant he was going to die. Like I said, I found out today that he had.

Now there is a mechanism where people can get temp cards so it's not happening anymore, but rules are rules no matter the cost.

That's the problem, but anyone who has dealings with regulatory agencies would know how common it is.

While that is a terribly sad story and unfortunate that it happened. The governement dropped the ball on this particular instance and so did the private sector. Did any insurance company or private charity offer to pay for of give this guy the medication he needed? Well im guessing no since you said he passed away. But in this case both systems failed this man. One was a goverment mishap/mistake and the other was nobody gave a shit since im sure the was no profit in it for them.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What you are doing is small potatoes.

If it was 100% private business you would be ripping off everyone in addition to them going without all the meds they need.

Thank you for validating Obama care as a good thing. :thumbsup:

I don't know who is more clueless -- you or senseamp.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

And if the government didnt? Would the so called free market save them? All you did was deflect his question which is typical here in P&N.

I'm not quite sure I see the relevance here. The government didn't "save" these guys, correct? If the free market didn't "save" them, they are no better than the government and therefore, why implement a government plan in the first place if it won't address these issues? If the free market DID "save" them, that means it must be better, right? So again, why implement a government plan if it doesn't address these issues?

 

[Throckmorton]

Why would it? The government has claimed responsibility for them.

And why did the government have to claim responsibility for them? Because there's no profit to be made therefore the free market has no interest in catering to them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

While that is a terribly sad story and unfortunate that it happened. The governement dropped the ball on this particular instance and so did the private sector. Did any insurance company or private charity offer to pay for of give this guy the medication he needed? Well im guessing no since you said he passed away. But in this case both systems failed this man. One was a goverment mishap/mistake and the other was nobody gave a shit since im sure the was no profit in it for them.

There are charities that do help with these sort of things, but their resources are limited.

Any guesses what it costs to take care of a guy like this each month?

BTW, this affected about half of the medicaid patients for some period of time in NYS. In this case it was completely tragic. Most others wouldn't die in so short a span of time. We did wind up giving quite a bit of meds out gratis to people though, in spite of the fact there was no profit in it.

This is the price paid for how we let government administer things with virtually no accountability. Large organizations move slowly, and there's nothing larger than government bureaucracy. This does not excuse incompetence on the part of any other, but one little mistake here put millions in jeopardy and there is no discussion of reformation much less action.

People need to make sure that whatever program is put in place it doesn't get mangled and there's no sign of that happening. .

 

[IndyColtsFan]

And why did the government have to claim responsibility for them? Because there's no profit to be made therefore the free market has no interest in catering to them.

And judging from the government's inaction, the same can be said for them.

 

[MotF Bane]

And why did the government have to claim responsibility for them? Because there's no profit to be made therefore the free market has no interest in catering to them.

Yet in claiming responsibility for them, the government still isn't taking care of them either. So the free market would not have done any worse for them.

 

[MotF Bane]

Any guesses what it costs to take care of a guy like this each month?

Somewhere in the five figures, I believe.

 

[soulcougher73]

I'm not quite sure I see the relevance here. The government didn't "save" these guys, correct? If the free market didn't "save" them, they are no better than the government and therefore, why implement a government plan in the first place if it won't address these issues? If the free market DID "save" them, that means it must be better, right? So again, why implement a government plan if it doesn't address these issues?

I see what you are saying, but i guess my problems liea deeper then this exact issue. Like why did medicaid have a problem with the phone line, enough so that they would cut if off and harm people? That is pretty whack. Im not saying the government is perfect in everything it does because its not. But at least they try to help these people where as the so called free market could care less due to loss of profit. And that is my real beef with healtcare in general. I dont like/believe healthcare should be a business model to profit off of. But that i just my opinion on it. I think everyone should have equal access to quality healthcare.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Somewhere in the five figures, I believe.

As an out patient, easily. Admitted to an intensive care unit it would be a lot more. Being homeless, he probably died in the streets. Poor guy really didn't have a chance because you can offer services, but you can't make someone take advantage of shelters. The reason he got his meds in the first place is that there are people who go around and tend to these people and at least try to get them to a doc and get some food.

 

[senseamp]

I'm not quite sure I see the relevance here. The government didn't "save" these guys, correct? If the free market didn't "save" them, they are no better than the government and therefore, why implement a government plan in the first place if it won't address these issues? If the free market DID "save" them, that means it must be better, right? So again, why implement a government plan if it doesn't address these issues?

Because it addresses them for majority of cases, and when it doesn't that is rightly considered a failure. But the outcome considered a "failure" for the government is actually the intended outcome of the free market approach, which is that only people who can afford to pay for medicines themselves get them. So you can take occasional failure of government system or intentional failure of the free market one.

 

[soulcougher73]

There are charities that do help with these sort of things, but their resources are limited.

Any guesses what it costs to take care of a guy like this each month?

BTW, this affected about half of the medicaid patients for some period of time in NYS. In this case it was completely tragic. Most others wouldn't die in so short a span of time. We did wind up giving quite a bit of meds out gratis to people though, in spite of the fact there was no profit in it.

This is the price paid for how we let government administer things with virtually no accountability. Large organizations move slowly, and there's nothing larger than government bureaucracy. This does not excuse incompetence on the part of any other, but one little mistake here put millions in jeopardy and there is no discussion of reformation much less action.

People need to make sure that whatever program is put in place it doesn't get mangled and there's no sign of that happening. .

Sucky situation for sure. But even though it dropped the ball here at least it is willing to help these people in the long run. Were as the free market would do nothing for these people at all due to lack of profit. I am a UHC proponent and a libertarian which i know is pretty rare. I just want it done right is all if its going to be done.

 

[senseamp]

There are charities that do help with these sort of things, but their resources are limited.

Any guesses what it costs to take care of a guy like this each month?

BTW, this affected about half of the medicaid patients for some period of time in NYS. In this case it was completely tragic. Most others wouldn't die in so short a span of time. We did wind up giving quite a bit of meds out gratis to people though, in spite of the fact there was no profit in it.

This is the price paid for how we let government administer things with virtually no accountability. Large organizations move slowly, and there's nothing larger than government bureaucracy. This does not excuse incompetence on the part of any other, but one little mistake here put millions in jeopardy and there is no discussion of reformation much less action.

People need to make sure that whatever program is put in place it doesn't get mangled and there's no sign of that happening. .

Sounds like you got a taste of free market medicine, and you didn't like it and want the government to start paying ASAP.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Like why did medicaid have a problem with the phone line, enough so that they would cut if off and harm people?

This business was bought earlier this year. When that happens there are inspections and audits. Often they are repeated and rechecked. To quote someone "everyone knows this" and act appropriately.

This place is inside an inner city clinic and the physical phone lines have been shared, but the numbers are different. We can't listen in on them and they can't listen to us. Well the most recent inspector cited "privacy concerns" about the potential to violate HIPPA. Never mind that it wasn't an issue. Never mind that modern phone systems can route calls effectively. In his mind the only way privacy can be guaranteed was that the phone company had to install a separate physical line from the pole to the pharmacy. Yep, that's right. Further, there was 7 days to do it. Yep, right again.

Well, that meant a whole lot of stuff needed to be done on the clinic side a well, the phone company needs to get it's stuff installed etc.

Since that didn't (and couldn't) happen, he suspended Medicaid. His concerns are all that mattered. Anything else wasn't important. I think we can reapply in a month or two.