Gov. Walker to hand out state assests in no-bid contracts

[Fern]

OK, for those interested a little more on their pension plan. I see more clearly what's going on (or think I do).

First some basics on retirement plans:

"Vesting", this means the retirement funds are yours. If you leave before vesting you don't get it. When you leave employment only vested amounts are yours.

401k plans etc, the money you elect to contribute is your money. It is considered 'vested' immediately. Employer matchings usually require some period before they vest. I.e., you quit before vesting you don't get the employer matched funds, they revert back to the employer.

Defined Benefit Plans (old time pension plans), employees contribute nothing. Nothing is immediately vested. You must last long enough or you get zip. The vesting period is usually fairly long and is incremental (so-and-so percentage if lasting 10 yrs etc., 100% vested if lasting 40 years, or whatever)

OK, the Wisconsin Retirement System Plan is actually a hybrid, or two plans in one. There is a portion that is immediately vested, unlike a typical DBP. This immediatley vested portion is supposed to be funded by the employee at 5% of their compensation. However the state is now paying that employee's 5% requirement. (The state also pays 100% for the other DBP portion). Looks like the proposed bill is that employees begin paying for their immediately vested part.

From link I provided above:

RETIREMENT: Employees are covered immediately under the Wisconsin Retirement System. Vested employeE-required contributions, approximately 5% of an employee's earnings, are made by the State on behalf of the employee. The State pays another 5-10%, depending upon the employee's occupational status, toward the non-vested employer-required contribution.

Fern

 

[Bowfinger]

I've heard the average quoted at $22k. I assume that's for a family. IDK if that's what the state pays on average or that's what the cost would be in the private HI market.

I'll check around and see what I can find.

Edit: Link to fmv of plan. I see they vary widely from about $1,500 per month to $2,800. I guess it depends on area where you live? $22k average looks reasonable/correct.

http://uwservice.wisc.edu/docs/publications/state-active-imputed-income-2011.pdf

Thanks. Agreed, that's fairly plush (or Wisconsin sucks at negotiating health plans). We budget roughly $9K per employee, with employees contributing up to about $6K, though our plan is of mediocre quality (we use my wife's instead).

WI has two plans. One is a Defined Benefit Plan (Wisconsin Retirement System) funded only by state contributions (employee pays nothing). It looks like this is where the 5% from the employees would go. Their site says the state currently pays this for teh employee.

They also have a deferred compensation plan (would supplement the other plan) that employees may opt to contribute to. I didn't see where the state matches etc.

link:

http://etf.wi.gov/careers/benefits.htm

Fern

Again, thanks.

 

[Bowfinger]

I stated I don't know if that is the case or not but it seems plenty plausible due to the requirements I've had to deal with over the years with public projects. It's also more plausible than some wild ass conspiracy you libs are trying to spread.

I know facts are hard for you sweetie, but I'm not trying to spread anything. I simply noted that it seems rather unsavory to slip in obtuse legislation in an unrelated bill to permit selling valuable public property without soliciting competitive bids. It doesn't prove intent to defraud the public, but it certainly opens the door for it.

 

[Throckmorton]

Can any of you rightwingnuts come up with a reason for selling state assets without bids?

 

[hal2kilo]

Can any of you rightwingnuts come up with a reason for selling state assets without bids?

It worked well for the Russian mafia?

 

[Darwin333]

So much for the rule of law.

Funny how they seem to remain silent about 4th amendment issues that they are directly involved in but when it comes to their paycheck they are on the side of "civil liberties"... Just sayin.

 

[Bowfinger]

Funny how they seem to remain silent about 4th amendment issues that they are directly involved in but when it comes to their paycheck they are on the side of "civil liberties"... Just sayin.

The Fourth Amendment covers search and seizure IIRC. How does that apply here?

 

[Craig234]

Do you have details on the tax breaks? State and local governments often do this to bring jobs and additional revenue to their areas. They usually get back more than they "giveaway" in tax breaks.

Proof?

No, right-wing fapping.

 

[Craig234]

So much for the rule of law.

Yes, all the murder, arson, assault, and kidnapping in the video proves your point. Idiot.

 

[RightIsWrong]

That's such a dumb argument. First of all, public employees get to vote on their boss whether they're union members or not. Trying to tie this to unions is gratuitous union-bashing, nothing more. Further, public employees are a small minority of the people voting for governor in a state. They don't get to pick their boss.

As far as who else does it, any company that offers an employee stock plan, for example. As owners in their company, they can vote just like any other shareholder. That means they get to help pick their own bosses, just like public employees.

I know that you aren't ignorant or stupid enough to believe that shareholders have any real say in who sits on a board.

The board members are anointed by the most powerful groups of shareholders in the company, the top 1% that control the vast majority of stocks. And who is this top 1% usually? Why, the board themselves who are given millions of shares, each with a vote for who gets to be on the board. Organizational shareholders, who make up the bulk of the shareholders, will generally grant the board proxy rights to vote their shares.

To even hint, insinuate or imply that "employees" can vote for their boss is the epitome of a misinformed or intentionally misleading statement.

 

[RightIsWrong]

lol @ both of you. You SOOOOOOO want to see something there that you ignore reality. Now if there were ANY legitimate shred tying that provision to the koch brothers and Walker then maybe... just maybe it'd be plausible but at this point all you have is an unsupported theory you are trying to use to "get" a Governor who your puppet masters have told you to hate.

Good job...

Could you answer a simple question.....Why does that provision have any business in the bill in the first place?

Shouldn't it be in a separate bill that deals with...oh...I don't know....state energy policy?

 

[Acanthus]

Ohio is trying to pass pretty much the same bill.

I wonder if this provision or similar ones are in there as well.

 

[Throckmorton]

So what is the real reason for selling state assets without bids, if not to benefit certain influential people?

 

[Jhhnn]

Meh. Selling money making assets to cover temporary shortfalls is a fool's move, anyway, even if bidding is employed. The buyers will demand return on investment, so Wisconsin residents just pay more for electricity forever rather than more in taxes for a period of time. Odds are that they'll pay a lot more under Walker's plan, which is why Repubs are doing it, anyway. This isn't like selling off undeveloped land, at all.

 

[spidey07]

So what is the real reason for selling state assets without bids, if not to benefit certain influential people?

Because it bypasses the "minority owned business" PC bullshit. I have to consider bids from MOBs that are nothing more than a few guys that can pull cable. NOBODY is certified or trained in installation of the cable in these MOBs as SPECIFIED in the scope of work - they don't meet the MIN requirements. And yet I am FORCED to consider them and prove why they don't get the job.

Hey MOBs! You didn't get the job because you couldn't even meet the bare minimum requirements.

 

[Throckmorton]

Because it bypasses the "minority owned business" PC bullshit. I have to consider bids from MOBs that are nothing more than a few guys that can pull cable. NOBODY is certified or trained in installation of the cable in these MOBs as SPECIFIED in the scope of work - they don't meet the MIN requirements. And yet I am FORCED to consider them and prove why they don't get the job.

Hey MOBs! You didn't get the job because you couldn't even meet the bare minimum requirements.

This is about selling assets, not contracts

 

[Bowfinger]

Because it bypasses the "minority owned business" PC bullshit. I have to consider bids from MOBs that are nothing more than a few guys that can pull cable. NOBODY is certified or trained in installation of the cable in these MOBs as SPECIFIED in the scope of work - they don't meet the MIN requirements. And yet I am FORCED to consider them and prove why they don't get the job.

Hey MOBs! You didn't get the job because you couldn't even meet the bare minimum requirements.

Which has nothing to do with selling assets (as opposed to hiring services). Spin harder.

 

[Bowfinger]

I know that you aren't ignorant or stupid enough to believe that shareholders have any real say in who sits on a board.

The board members are anointed by the most powerful groups of shareholders in the company, the top 1% that control the vast majority of stocks. And who is this top 1% usually? Why, the board themselves who are given millions of shares, each with a vote for who gets to be on the board. Organizational shareholders, who make up the bulk of the shareholders, will generally grant the board proxy rights to vote their shares.

To even hint, insinuate or imply that "employees" can vote for their boss is the epitome of a misinformed or intentionally misleading statement.

That whistling sound you heard was the point sailing far above your head. You might try reading the whole exchange, in context.

 

[spidey07]

Which has nothing to do with selling assets (as opposed to hiring services). Spin harder.

Ive done state work. Same shit.

 

[Bowfinger]

Somebody want to draw Spidey a picture? I don't have a crayon font.

 

[spidey07]

Somebody want to draw Spidey a picture? I don't have a crayon font.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Bowfinger]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

No, I double-checked. I really don't have a crayon font.




(Hint: when you're selling stuff, you don't care about the skill set of the buyer. You just care if the check clears.)

 

[Jhhnn]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Quite to the contrary. It's you who ranted off on a tangent about minority business. Don't worry, though- I doubt that Walker will sell any of Wisconsin's electrical power plants to minorities, but rather to his lily-white cronies...

 

[umbrella39]

Somebody want to draw Spidey a picture? I don't have a crayon font.

Still looking for that crayon to reality translator to understand his scribbles.

 

[Zorba]

They don't need to be standing there because they KNOW you will pull the lever for the Democrat. Why? Because Democrats will 'reward' you for your loyalty. What's absurd is that you think this isn't corruption.

Its funny, I actually work with a lot of Union people at my current job and they are almost all Republicans. I even had one telling me the other day how all the liberal judges were going to side with the company and not let them strike. lol. Even at my last job in Ohio, the majority of the Union I dealt with was republican.

I know that you think Union workers are lepers, so you never associate with them, so you just like Beck and Rush tell you all about them. From what I have seen, at three different major aerospace companies, they're just like any other large group of people.