Gov. Walker to hand out state assests in no-bid contracts

[Fear No Evil]

That's such a dumb argument. First of all, public employees get to vote on their boss whether they're union members or not. Trying to tie this to unions is gratuitous union-bashing, nothing more. Further, public employees are a small minority of the people voting for governor in a state. They don't get to pick their boss.

As far as who else does it, any company that offers an employee stock plan, for example. As owners in their company, they can vote just like any other shareholder. That means they get to help pick their own bosses, just like public employees.

You need to educate yourself on stock ownership. Most stock holders don't have any power to vote for board members. When is the last time you got any sort of voting forms for the stocks you own in your 401k?

 

[Bowfinger]

You need to educate yourself on stock ownership. Most stock holders don't have any power to vote for board members. When is the last time you got any sort of voting forms for the stocks you own in your 401k?

None for my 401(k). Once or twice a year for securities I own directly, including those I acquired from a couple of different ESOPs.

I'll also note you ignored the main points of my post. Face it, your argument is fail. You also ignored the fact your claim about employees paying nothing is false. You're not doing very well with your propaganda. Time to try something new.

 

[Thump553]

Uh, this is a rehash of the same bs trotted out at the beginning of this lib tantrum. There is nothing tying them to any deal or any proof that they are going to gain anything. But don't let all that get in the way of a good conspiracy theory...

Perhaps then you can explain exactly how a no-bid system to privatize public utilities is financial reform? Because Wisconsin would save money on the bidding process?

 

[PeshakJang]

Yes, because jew-baiting mormon extremists hawking gold scams while spreading stories of end days to boomer retirees on a blackboard is so credible. :hmm:

Deflect! Deflect! The other side does it!

You guys are seriously weaksauce and predictable, you know this hopefully.

Here, have some vapo rub so you and Beck can cry over losing WW2 to liberals thus letting Soros and the evil jew media take control for the evil communist empire some more. This ones on me comrade.

There's that civility and rational logic I've been looking for!

Don't let the Koch brothers get you while you sleep....

 

[dmcowen674]

Gov. Walker to hand out state assests in no-bid contracts

I knew there had to be a bigger payoff for the brothers Koch in all this mess. Buried in the union busting bill is a provision giving authority for Wisconsin to sell off publicly owned power plants in no-bid contracts at whatever price the state determines and to whomever they want

Funny how some people in other posts tried to downplay the Koch connection. Turns out the Koch Bros are the ring leaders of this circus, Walker and the GOP and the trained monkeys jumping through the flaming hoops. The union workers will be left breaking down the tents and cleaning up the shit after the show.

Its all just a continuation of the Bush, Cheney, Rove et al Haliburton show.

Americans are too stupid to see it and they know it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Uh, this is a rehash of the same bs trotted out at the beginning of this lib tantrum. There is nothing tying them to any deal or any proof that they are going to gain anything. But don't let all that get in the way of a good conspiracy theory...

Hmmmm, only live one state away and have political ties, have to wonder of poster gains personally.

 

[PeshakJang]

Its all just a continuation of the Bush, Cheney, Rove et al Haliburton show.

Americans are too stupid to see it and they know it.

How's that parking meter sale going for you guys?

Goddamn Daley Republicans.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Not according to this article: http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/Permalink/UBEN-8EDJYS?OpenDocument

It's a long read; he spends a lot of time blasting the media for failing to check their facts. It says that according to the language in the employees' contract (as opposed to Walker's repeated assertions), their retirement contributions are tax-deferred employee compensation, i.e., part of their salaries. Thus, when Walker says employees need to "pay more" he is actually talking about cutting compensation.

Yeah, I saw that trotted out as the latest liberal talking point last night. But it doesn't change a thing. As a private sector employee, I too "defer" wage compensation to have a 401K match by my company. Guess who pays? That's right - my employer. It's exactly the same in their case because the tax payer pays their wage AND compensation. So any attempt to try to spin this as them paying their own is nothing but BS.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Perhaps then you can explain exactly how a no-bid system to privatize public utilities is financial reform? Because Wisconsin would save money on the bidding process?

with or without solicitation of bids for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state

Also, it's just an option for the state to consider since it sounds like many of the power plants are old and will take large investments to renovate. Likely, but I don't know the exact rules, they would have to get 3 bids in a normal process but with the aged plants it's been reported that they would likely only get 1. If that were the case, nothing could be done if the normal bid process were used. Municipal/state work that I've been a part of is that way but it's not Wisconsin so again, I don't know the exact rules. So IF that is the case in wisconsin - it would be fine IMO, otherwise I see no need for the language. I also don't see how any of this is connected to those evil evil evil koch brothers but I'm sure in lib fantasy land the ties are there...

 

[Bowfinger]

Yeah, I saw that trotted out as the latest liberal talking point last night. But it doesn't change a thing. As a private sector employee, I too "defer" wage compensation to have a 401K match by my company. Guess who pays? That's right - my employer. It's exactly the same in their case because the tax payer pays their wage AND compensation. So any attempt to try to spin this as them paying their own is nothing but BS.

Sorry, what is your point exactly? Yes, wages are paid by the employer. Public and private sector both. If employees paid their own compensation, they'd be self-employed. Shocking concept, I know. Film at 11:00!

The point you're dodging so valiantly is that Wisconsin employees already pay for their own retirement as part of their compensation. (Contrary to FNE's assertion they pay nothing.) When Walker says he wants employees to pay "more" for their retirement, he's being deceptive. What he really means is he wants to reduce their compensation, something Walker and his apologists keep denying.

 

[dmcowen674]

When Walker says he wants employees to pay "more" for their retirement, he's being deceptive.

What he really means is he wants to reduce their compensation, something Walker and his apologists keep denying.

Ziiiiing

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Sorry, what is your point exactly? Yes, wages are paid by the employer. Public and private sector both. If employees paid their own compensation, they'd be self-employed. Shocking concept, I know. Film at 11:00!

The point you're dodging so valiantly is that Wisconsin employees already pay for their own retirement as part of their compensation. (Contrary to FNE's assertion they pay nothing.) When Walker says he wants employees to pay "more" for their retirement, he's being deceptive. What he really means is he wants to reduce their compensation, something Walker and his apologists keep denying.

Again, you miss the fact that even with the different wording (differed compensation) they still aren't paying their own- the tax payers are. In the real world(corporate world) it's no different. A company offers benefits instead of wages like 401K match, ESOP, Shares, etc but in the end it's really not as if the employee is "paying" for these things. This latest attempt by you libs is nothing more than throwing some BS out there to attempt to muddy the waters. It's not going to work - these employees don't "PAY" their own and their wages would not go up if these "benefits" were removed - just like mine wouldn't in the real world if the corp changed the benefit package.

Sheesh - I can't believe you are this dumb...

 

[dmcowen674]

How's that parking meter sale going for you guys?

Goddamn Daley Republicans.

Going fantastic

Can you say you retired with a billion dollars in your pocket?

 

[Fear No Evil]

Again, you miss the fact that even with the different wording (differed compensation) they still aren't paying their own- the tax payers are. In the real world(corporate world) it's no different. A company offers benefits instead of wages like 401K match, ESOP, Shares, etc but in the end it's really not as if the employee is "paying" for these things. This latest attempt by you libs is nothing more than throwing some BS out there to attempt to muddy the waters. It's not going to work - these employees don't "PAY" their own and their wages would not go up if these "benefits" were removed - just like mine wouldn't in the real world if the corp changed the benefit package.

Sheesh - I can't believe you are this dumb...

The shit Bowfinger is trying to shovel here is beyond absurd. I don't think he is dumb however, I just think he is dishonest.

 

[Bowfinger]

Again, you miss the fact that even with the different wording (differed compensation) they still aren't paying their own- the tax payers are. ...

No shit? Try to wrap your Kool-Aid-addled mind around this very basic concept: they are employed by the State of Wisconsin. Their employee compensation comes from the State of Wisconsin. Therefore -- and here comes the really hard part for you -- every dollar of their compensation comes from taxpayers. Just like in the private sector, employees' compensation comes from the employer. i.e., the owners of the business. Idiot.

Once again, the point you keep dodging is that when Walker says he wants employees to pay "more" for their retirement, he's being deceptive. What he really means is he wants to reduce their compensation, something Walker and his apologists keep denying.

Sheesh - I can't believe you are this dumb...

That's the difference between us. I've come to realize you are.

Get well soon.

 

[Bowfinger]

The shit Bowfinger is trying to shovel here is beyond absurd. I don't think he is dumb however, I just think he is dishonest.

That is hilarious coming from you. You've been wrong in just about everything you've posted, but this doesn't slow you down a bit. You ignore all the people deconstructing your disinformation and shamelessly move on to the next propaganda point on your list. The puppeteers love useful tools like you ... not that it will cause them to screw you any less.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

No shit? Try to wrap your Kool-Aid-addled mind around this very basic concept: they are employed by the State of Wisconsin. Their employee compensation comes from the State of Wisconsin. Therefore -- and here comes the really hard part for you -- every dollar of their compensation comes from taxpayers. Just like in the private sector, employees' compensation comes from the employer. i.e., the owners of the business. Idiot.

Once again, the point you keep dodging is that when Walker says he wants employees to pay "more" for their retirement, he's being deceptive. What he really means is he wants to reduce their compensation, something Walker and his apologists keep denying.



That's the difference between us. I've come to realize you are.

Get well soon.

Uh yeah? The fact that they need to contribute to their retirement now by taking current wages is just fine by me. There is no reason they should have such extraordinary benefits when the state is facing budget shortfalls. Now maybe these employees will see what the real world has to pay, except this contribution by them now still is way better than the private sector. So while you can continue to whine and try to claim they already pay for it(they don't) it's about damn time we end these endless platinum benefits for state workers. I am not opposed to a good benefit package but what they have is way out of line with reality.

 

[trenchfoot]

Reminder: The unions have already agreed to consessions demanded by Walker. Yet, he's still going after their ability to collectively bargain, which is what he after all along.

Walker apparently wanted to use the tactic of demanding concessions for no other reason than to force the unions to strike, thus turning public opinion in his favor. When the unions agreed to the concessions, which was the logical thing to do considering the current financial situation, Walker had to shift tactics thus revealing the true nature of his agenda: BREAK THE UNIONS, with Koch Bros. complicitity, as has been previously proven.

The more you dig, the more dirt you find.

 

[KlokWyze]

Uh yeah? The fact that they need to contribute to their retirement now by taking current wages is just fine by me. There is no reason they should have such extraordinary benefits when the state is facing budget shortfalls. Now maybe these employees will see what the real world has to pay, except this contribution by them now still is way better than the private sector. So while you can continue to whine and try to claim they already pay for it(they don't) it's about damn time we end these endless platinum benefits for state workers. I am not opposed to a good benefit package but what they have is way out of line with reality.

Didn't the unions already agree... say they would willingly take pay cuts, etc.? Isn't the major issue the way in which the Republicans use fiscal reform as a way to attack unions and take away their rights?

Edit: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah what Tweaker said.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Reminder: The unions have already agreed to consessions demanded by Walker. Yet, he's still going after their ability to collectively bargain, which is what he after all along.

Walker apparently wanted to use the tactic of demanding concessions for no other reason than to force the unions to strike, thus turning public opinion in his favor. When the unions agreed to the concessions, which was the logical thing to do considering the current financial situation, Walker had to shift tactics and reveal the true nature of his agenda: BREAK THE UNIONS, with Koch Bros. complicitity, as has been previously revealed.

The more you dig, the more dirt you find.

Shep agrees.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/24/shep-smith-wisconsin-figh_n_827547.html

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Didn't the unions already agree... say they would willingly take pay cuts, etc.? Isn't the major issue the way in which the Republicans use fiscal reform as a way to attack unions and take away their rights?

Agreeing to the benefit changes is only part of the deal. The bargaining thing allows for more local control of budgets and brings the public sector closer to being in line with reality.

 

[KlokWyze]

Agreeing to the benefit changes is only part of the deal. The bargaining thing allows for more local control of budgets and brings the public sector closer to being in line with reality.

But the "reality" of it is all about cutting the budget anyways, according to Walker. So if the unions have already seen it and agreed to take pay cuts, then taking away their right to collectively bargain or whatever the hell it is, is just a political move completely unrelated to the stated "reality"...

Isn't it obvious that the Republican party value big money and big business above anything and everything?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

But the "reality" of it is all about cutting the budget anyways, according to Walker. So if the unions have already seen it and agreed to take pay cuts, then taking away their right to collectively bargain or whatever the hell it is, is just a political move completely unrelated to the stated "reality"...

Isn't it obvious that the Republican party value big money and big business above anything and everything?

Uh, removing bargaining over benefits has nothing to do with big money and big business so I don't know why you keep trying to toss that BS in there.

Yes, it's political, but it's also needed to keep things more in line with reality. More local control is better.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

OP,
Is the concern that a politician is signing a bill that allows a no bid situation or that it's a Republican who's doing it?

Consistency check.

 

[trenchfoot]

With hindsight, it appears the Walker/Koch Bros. plan was a form of "blitzkrieg": Quickly force the unions into a no-win situation, get public opinion on his side for leverage and ram his legislation through before anyone knew what was really going on.

What he didn't count on was the unions agreeing to concessions and the Dem legislators skipping town to buy time and in essence slow down the lightning war against the unions the Walker/Koch cabal initiated.

Walker/Koch may still win their war in Wisconsin, but the advantage they sought in hitting hard/hitting fast is now gone, so they're going to have to engage in trench warfare to get their way. Harder to do, but still doable.

The key lies in their ability to keep public opinion on their side.