Gov. Newsom proposes 28th Amendment to the US Constitution designed to reduce gun violence

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,712
27,258
136
Gavin Newsom steps in the ring with Hannity and puts him down with a liver shot. Amazing the results you can get when prepared with truth and facts. Dems take notes.

 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,238
7,967
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Gavin Newsom steps in the ring with Hannity and puts him down with a liver shot. Amazing the results you can get when prepared with truth and facts. Dems take notes.

Hannity invited him via a Tweet and Newsom accepted. Newsom does not play it close to the vest. He informs himself and speaks his mind freely. He also watches Fox News, so he knows what they are purveying. Heard these things on local news tonight, NBC, Bay Area. He won't run for president if Joe or Kamala will.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,616
1,795
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One of the issues, mentioned by others, is the Democratic party needs to better get the word out on how shitty of a job the GQP is doing.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,104
14,738
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One of the issues, mentioned by others, is the Democratic party needs to better get the word out on how shitty of a job the GQP is doing.

I don’t know if they should run on, “the other guys suck” messaging. People as pretty tired of partisan fighting (another good messaging opportunity for Biden). I think they should just a stick to talking about their accomplishments.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,912
2,541
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My point was very simple. I never argued that a cure to mental illness would end gun deaths. I made the argument that gun deaths that are the product of mental illness would end if we did not have mentally I’ll people using guns to act out their illness.

I believe that the seeds of mental illness lie in the fact that as children the disciplinary techniques used to insure the acquisition of good behavior consisted of a good deal of physical and mental threat, and in particular, verbal abuse as put downs.

Notice when I say so people put me down. They think that by verbally attempting to abuse me they can stop me from reminding them of their pain. Good luck. The pain isn’t going away unfaced.

So I am not ignoring what you said other than that you are up in arms about a point I never intended and never made.

Only intentional violence to others by gun will decline if the degree of general mental health in the country improves. That is the area that really needs our attention, in my opinion. I am open to rational gun control and like others have opinions as to what that should mean. Nothing I would call rational would interfere with the right of self defense.
Are you sure about that?
The reason there are more mass shootings in America is because more mentally ill people have availability to guns than in countries where fewer guns put fewer people at risk so fewer people feel a need for counter measures. So, as I described above, would you take a gun I could use were it the only way I could prevent somebody from throwing children off a cliff?

Look at it this way. You can stop gin violence by eliminating all guns. You can stop all gun violence by preventing the mental illness that creates it. You have no idea and are actually motivated never to see how to fix the source of violence so you focus on guns instead. But that is just another bag the cat long ago escaped. Guns are everywhere in the US and are constitutionally legal. Enlightened government would solve the former and fascism the latter. I know which will be preferred and why.
What did you say there? 99% of all Gun deaths come from gun violence, which includes suicides which is violence inflicted on ones self! You have to cure the mental illness to prevent it numb nuts. Which means YOU DID argue that curing mental illness would end gun deaths. Granted, that does not include accidental deaths which only makes up 1% of gun deaths, but as you argued already, you are not talking about accidental gun deaths. So, the context of YOUR argument, you are claiming curing mental illness would end gun deaths. (It won't because there are a lot of murders that are not a result of being mentally ill). But in all reality, even accidental gun deaths is a sub category of gun violence because a gun is violent in nature, as it's created purpose is to kill. That purpose does not disappear if you just target practice or shoot for sport, and the violence that inherently comes with a gun is always there.
 
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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,912
2,541
136
You're only saying that because you're so full of self-hate yet unaware of it that you unconsciously reject the uncomfortable feelings of the truth he brings to offer, blah blah blah :rolleyes:
Sarcasm? Sorry, I'm tired, and my sarcasm meter is broken.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,116
5,980
126
What a bold face liar you are!!!

What the fuck did you say there? Gun deaths are part of gun violence! You have to cure the mental illness to prevent it numb nuts. Which means YOU DID argue that curing mental illness would end gun deaths.
Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458). So gun violence includes 54% suicide, 43% murders and 3% other causes like gun accidents. Accidents, part of the 3% included in 2021 549 instances. Where you get the idea that this tiny percentage is violence and not accidental I have no idea. I was never talking about accidental gun deaths ending if mental illness behind gun violence, Murders and suicides, violence against one's self. I was only taking about deaths due to violence. You made a huge issue about accidental gun deaths which in addition to not being the result of violence, account for around 1% of gun deaths, so even if you could prove that accidents are violence, since accidents are accidents and not volitional much less violent actions, I would still be 97% correct while you get a big fat ZERO.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,912
2,541
136
Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted infor the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458). So gun violence includes 54% suicide, 43% murders and 3% other causes like gun accidents. Accidents, part of the 3% included in 2021 549 instances. Where you get the idea that this tiny percentage is violence and not accidental I have no idea. I was never talking about accidental gun deaths ending if mental illness behind gun violence, Murders and suicides, violence against one's self. I was only taking about deaths due to violence. You made a huge issue about accidental gun deaths which in addition to not being the result of violence, account for around 1% of gun deaths, so even if you could prove that accidents are violence, since accidents are accidents and not volitional much less violent actions, I would still be 97% correct while you get a big fat ZERO.
What? You think you are 97% right? Are you using common core math? You are not even 3% right with your argument, or your math, What is 549 (accidental gun deaths)/48830 (total number of gun deaths)? (it's .0112 which is 1.12% or rounded to the nearest precent is... drumroll.... 1%) Correct link with the actual numbers you quoted:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s

I know, you are trying to remove the police gun deaths, as you don't want to consider them gun violence (they are), and you want to remove the undetermined gun deaths as well.

Regardless, you are still 100% wrong, that gun violence/gun deaths will end if we cure mental illness. Curing all mental illness, all thought impossible, still won't stop all the gun deaths or prevent gun violence in the 98.9% or even in your common core math of 97% of gun deaths or gun violence, which you admit is the context of your argument. It won't stop 100% of the suicides by gun, which is the ONLY category that mental illness is a predicator of. But even then, not all suicides by gun, are are committed by mentally ill people, even if curing all mentally ill was possible. It won't even stop 100% of murders, as menially ill is NOT a predicator of violence, the only thing that is a predicator of violence is previous violence. Gun violence/gun deaths committed by the mentally ill is only 4%. But for some backwards reasoning, you think that all violent gun deaths and or gun violence in general, are being committed by the mentally ill. That is not supported by the facts. So it doesn't matter what fucked up math you use, you are 100% wrong claiming curing mental illness will end gun violence, it will only reduce it by 4% at most.


Hell, only 5% of mass shootings is related to mental illness:
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
35,712
27,258
136
Though they tend to get less public attention than gun-related murders, suicides have long accounted for the majority of U.S. gun deaths. In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458). So gun violence includes 54% suicide, 43% murders and 3% other causes like gun accidents. Accidents, part of the 3% included in 2021 549 instances. Where you get the idea that this tiny percentage is violence and not accidental I have no idea. I was never talking about accidental gun deaths ending if mental illness behind gun violence, Murders and suicides, violence against one's self. I was only taking about deaths due to violence. You made a huge issue about accidental gun deaths which in addition to not being the result of violence, account for around 1% of gun deaths, so even if you could prove that accidents are violence, since accidents are accidents and not volitional much less violent actions, I would still be 97% correct while you get a big fat ZERO.
Hey Moonie,

Do you think the United States is unique when it comes to mental illness? Do we really have that much more mentally ill people than other developed nations? I don't discount the mental illness factor, but I would attribute it more to mentally immature than ill. Kinda like putting guns in the hands of 6 year olds.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,238
7,967
136
I don’t know if they should run on, “the other guys suck” messaging. People as pretty tired of partisan fighting (another good messaging opportunity for Biden). I think they should just a stick to talking about their accomplishments.
Well and good but if The Don is their guy come the 2024 general how in hell can they ignore taking shots at the low hanging fruit of all the shitty things he's done? It's mind boggling to say the least. And anyone who isn't in the habit of blocking out all that stuff is gonna think "yeah, do I really want him in the white house???" The baggage is just way too much.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
57,811
11,934
136
Sarcasm? Sorry, I'm tired, and my sarcasm meter is broken.
I sort of thought the "blah blah blah" would act as a good indicator ;)
I think he's full of rubbish and projection and am glad I finally put him on my ignore list, I'm not missing out on anything. I occasionally expand a post of his just to see if he's still beating the same sad drum.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,238
7,967
136
I sort of thought the "blah blah blah" would act as a good indicator ;)
I think he's full of rubbish and projection and am glad I finally put him on my ignore list, I'm not missing out on anything. I occasionally expand a post of his just to see if he's still beating the same sad drum.
Same here, and I got the /s just fine.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,179
4,342
136
Not a chance, but I like it. They would need to define two things in that suggestion of an ammendment.

Assault Rifle = ?
Reasonable waiting period = ?
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
5,616
1,795
136
I don’t know if they should run on, “the other guys suck” messaging. People as pretty tired of partisan fighting (another good messaging opportunity for Biden). I think they should just a stick to talking about their accomplishments.

In a better world, sure, don't take pot shots at anyone. I think everyone would be better that way.

The problem is, the GOP's platform is built on lies, and trashing other people. They take credit for actions and legislations that they opposed.

The democratic party needs to call it out when they see it. They need to say, we (the democratic party) did this for you. The GOP politician touting this as an achievement voted against it.

Things like that.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,110
46,655
136
In a better world, sure, don't take pot shots at anyone. I think everyone would be better that way.

The problem is, the GOP's platform is built on lies, and trashing other people. They take credit for actions and legislations that they opposed.

The democratic party needs to call it out when they see it. They need to say, we (the democratic party) did this for you. The GOP politician touting this as an achievement voted against it.

Things like that.
They do that though?
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
12,849
7,786
136
Do you think that there are as many criminals born in Tibetan Buddhist families as there are in Mafia families? How would you rate the inner life of a monk that vows to save all sentient beings and someone who profits from making others miserable.

That you don’t see criminality as a a form of profound mental illness clarifies your position for me.

I suspect the Chinese authorities would say there are many criminals born in Tibetan Buddhist families. Given that it's against Chinese law to deny that Tibet is part of China.

Also, in countries other than Tibet, Buddhist families have produced a great many criminals, including some who have been leaders of racially-motivated pogroms against ethnic minority groups who they saw as a threat to Buddhism.

What is this "criminality" trait, to which you refer? You honestly think it's some sort of innate property of individuals, rather than a consequence of social and political circumstances?

Also, your emphasis on 'mental illness' just further reinforces my dislike and suspicion of anyone who bangs on about 'mental health'. The cult of 'mental health' increasingly seems to me to be to our era what the Catholic church was to medieval times. A form of mysticism, that is intended to prop up the status quo and protect the privileges of the ruling elites. It's almost always invoked for reactionary purposes, whether excusing crazy gun-laws, allowing the elites to claim victim-status (e.g. Prince Harry and any number of privileged celebs) or blaming the oppressed for their misfortune.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,203
4,983
136
How about something not so subjective like a mental competency test?
While I think it's an outstanding idea, I can absolutely guaranty that it would be decried as racist within the first year after it was enacted.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,110
46,655
136
While I think it's an outstanding idea, I can absolutely guaranty that it would be decried as racist within the first year after it was enacted.
I think a more practical problem is how you could possibly make one that was both valid and easily administered enough to do millions a year affordably. Neither seem likely.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,116
5,980
126
What? You think you are 97% right? Are you using common core math? You are not even 3% right with your argument, or your math, What is 549 (accidental gun deaths)/48830 (total number of gun deaths)? (it's .0112 which is 1.12% or rounded to the nearest precent is... drumroll.... 1%) Correct link with the actual numbers you quoted:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s

I know, you are trying to remove the police gun deaths, as you don't want to consider them gun violence (they are), and you want to remove the undetermined gun deaths as well.

Regardless, you are still 100% wrong, that gun violence/gun deaths will end if we cure mental illness. Curing all mental illness, all thought impossible, still won't stop all the gun deaths or prevent gun violence in the 98.9% or even in your common core math of 97% of gun deaths or gun violence, which you admit is the context of your argument. It won't stop 100% of the suicides by gun, which is the ONLY category that mental illness is a predicator of. But even then, not all suicides by gun, are are committed by mentally ill people, even if curing all mentally ill was possible. It won't even stop 100% of murders, as menially ill is NOT a predicator of violence, the only thing that is a predicator of violence is previous violence. Gun violence/gun deaths committed by the mentally ill is only 4%. But for some backwards reasoning, you think that all violent gun deaths and or gun violence in general, are being committed by the mentally ill. That is not supported by the facts. So it doesn't matter what fucked up math you use, you are 100% wrong claiming curing mental illness will end gun violence, it will only reduce it by 4% at most.


Hell, only 5% of mass shootings is related to mental illness:
Glad at least that you have dropped equating accident attributed gun deaths to acts of gun violence because to act is to do willfully while accidents are acts that one does not intend to happen. That leaves us with the what you think is mental illness and what I think it is. I define mental illness completely differently than most people due. That is the basics behind why I post. How many times have I expressed the idea here that the so called experts are ignorant and that humanity is asleep living in an upside down backward world. The definition of mental illness for me is characterized by unconscious self hate, the last thing anybody will recognize or face. The mentally ill are everybody in the world that lives behind the denial armament that is the ego. All those acts of violence that you say are not caused by mental illness are caused by mental illness and the people we call mentally ill commit fewer acts of violence because they are mentally more consciously aware. Mentally ill people of the kind you think of as sick are generally not as sick as the rest of us because they are more likely to know there is something wrong with them.

They are not in so deep a state of denial. As I said, in order to see this you have to have decided to investigate on your own and practice some sort of spiritual or psychological discipline, some form of introspection that leads to such realization. The signs that people hate themselves are everywhere when you are open to seeing them.

Everybody was abused by language as a child, made to leave reality in favor of an altered state, a phony believe in external identifications that confer the lost sense of real self respect. We are all exemplars of some fictitious 'goodism'. You and others like you are pissed because I rock your boat, you naive self-comforting delusions of normalcy. Your whole methodology of survival is to deny and counterattack. The mentally ill for you are those who are unable to adjust to their sickness because their self hate keeps threatening to break into consciousness. They can and may actually be able to find real help. But the world we live in is in deep denial and the psychological facts of our inner condition profoundly occluded. Humanity has no idea the depths to which it has been made to suffer pain, but you can see it reflected in our behavior. We are killing ourselves as we kill the world. That is the price we pay for the comfort of sleep. As I said we are the reason that gun violence exists. We are the reason it will stay that way.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,203
4,983
136
I think a more practical problem is how you could possibly make one that was both valid and easily administered enough to do millions a year affordably. Neither seem likely.
Developing the test and setting up the testing process would be straight forward, cheating would be the issue. There would quickly be schools devoted to passing the test.
Beyond that, owning a firearm is a right.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
20,481
19,055
136
Developing the test and setting up the testing process would be straight forward, cheating would be the issue. There would quickly be schools devoted to passing the test.
Beyond that, owning a firearm is a right.

So it's a right with no rules?

What happened to the whole in the context of a well-regulated militia. Why do you dishonest conservatives keep omitting that part? It's just insulting to decency at this point
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,110
46,655
136
Developing the test and setting up the testing process would be straight forward, cheating would be the issue. There would quickly be schools devoted to passing the test.
Beyond that, owning a firearm is a right.
I think developing the test would be extremely, extremely difficult, maybe impossible, if you’re trying to make a validated instrument to measure various forms of derangement.