Gov. Newsom proposes 28th Amendment to the US Constitution designed to reduce gun violence

[Captante]

psychobabble

Sounds like pretty much every one of his posts. (especially the "babble" part lol)

 

[Captante]

First inkling of anything like that in my youth was the Texas tower massacre.

Essay: America’s first modern mass shooting never really ended

The 1966 University of Texas Tower shooting remains clouded by myths, including the myth of the “good guy with a gun.” It left too many Americans with only evil to blame — and not our leaders, our policies and ourselves.

www.texastribune.org

Also the incident in San Diego CA that inspired the song "I don't like Mondays" comes to mind.

"I don't like Mondays" (Wiki)


Even Sandy Hook came as a MAJOR shock to me when it happened and that wasn't all that long ago at all .... these days reporting a mass-shooting stands out about as starkly in the news as a freaking weather report.

America really is turning into a 3rd-world bunghole of a country in many ways.

 

[uclaLabrat]

I could respond to several of your individual points, but I'm going to address this last one for now.

Do you think that "self-hate" is less of an issue in say Europe or Australia than it is here? If so, then why?

Because from where I sit, it seems that the restrictive guns laws in those countries, resulting in gun ownership that is about 1/10th per capita of what we have here might have something to do with much lower murder rates in those countries. Ya think?

But hey, if you think these are more enlightened cultures where people don't hate themselves, and that is why they don't have these daily mass shootings, then feel free to convince me.

Exactly. Not to simplify it too much but plenty of countries have issues with mental health care, toxic masculinity, etc. No one else has our problem with mass shootings. Few if any have our level of firearm access. Surely theres a causitive link there.

 

[Moonbeam]

quick question, do more cars on the road cause more or less car accidents? How many of them are caused by the mentally ill? Will the number of cars accidents stop if we "fix" the mentally ill issue? Nope. They will continue to increase as long as the number of cars on the road continue to increase. The same thing holds true with guns. Yes, we have a mental care issue in this country, but fixing that problem, which does need to happen, will not fix the gun violence/death problem. As long as we have the number of guns in the United States increasing, the gun violence/death problem will continue to get worse. The only way the gun violence/death problems can be fixed is by reducing the number of guns in the United states. That fact won't change if you eliminate every mentally ill person in the country. Raising the minimum age to 21 to purchase a gun won't fix the problem either, it will just increase gun deaths in the 25 to 34 age group, which ALREADY has the most gun deaths.

Let me restate your argument. The more people who are born every year, the more deaths there will be, so in order to reduce the number of people who will die we have to eliminate having children?

And while we wait for the last person alive to die we have to eliminate guns and motor vehicles.

 

[Moonbeam]

Exactly. Not to simplify it too much but plenty of countries have issues with mental health care, toxic masculinity, etc. No one else has our problem with mass shootings. Few if any have our level of firearm access. Surely theres a causitive link there.

Exactly, the more you put people in cages and penalize them for the rebellion suppresses violence will create, the safer we will all be. There are no mass killings of the type we see on our school yards in maximum security prisons.

With enough restrictive laws and enough police or enough white Christians, all our problems will be solved. Liberals and conservatives are idiots.

 

[ivwshane]

Let me restate your argument. The more people who are born every year, the more deaths there will be, so in order to reduce the number of people who will die we have to eliminate having children?

And while we wait for the last person alive to die we have to eliminate guns and motor vehicles.

Sure, now replace children with guns and it no longer sounds stupid.

 

[ivwshane]

Exactly, the more you put people in cages and penalize them for the rebellion suppresses violence will create, the safer we will all be. There are no mass killings of the type we see on our school yards in maximum security prisons.

With enough restrictive laws and enough police or enough white Christians, all our problems will be solved. Liberals and conservatives are idiots.

Who is putting anyone in cages? And if these people are the type to revolt and become violent, it certainly seems like a good idea that these people are probably exactly the type of people who shouldn’t have access to guns.

Now let me restate your argument; the best way to deal with nazis is to ignore them because they will eventually go away.

Do you have an elevated hate for yourself lately because these are some really bad arguments from you.

 

[Captante]

Do you have an elevated hate for yourself lately because these are some really bad arguments from you.

I can think of at least ONE person around here who would be better off in a nice PADDED cage!

If I thought like him, pretty sure I'd hate MYSELF too!

 

[Moonbeam]

Sounds like pretty much every one of his posts. (especially the "babble" part lol)

Always attack

Who is putting anyone in cages? And if these people are the type to revolt and become violent, it certainly seems like a good idea that these people are probably exactly the type of people who shouldn’t have access to guns.

Now let me restate your argument; the best way to deal with nazis is to ignore them because they will eventually go away.

Do you have an elevated hate for yourself lately because these are some really bad arguments from you.

In my opinion arguments are always judged by whose ox gets gored and always twisted to represent something other than intended.

The best way to deal with Nazism is not to be one yourself. The best way to become one is to react out of fear. You don’t achieve such a state of fearlessness by ignoring them. You achieve it by confronting the fact that the cause of fascism is within you, your fear of your own hate.

You learned to hate by being told and buying into the belief you deserved it. This is the cage we are in and remain in because we only imagine we are free.

 

[Muse]

Raising the age to purchase firearms to 21 is pure stupidity, as being under 21 is not the cause of the problem, or the reason gun violence is an issue in this country. If such an amendment did pass, it means 18 to 21 year old's can join the military, can fight using more deadly firearms, die defending this country, yet they wouldn't be old enough to purchase a firearm, or as current law has it, they can't even have a drink to calm their nerves. Such an age restriction is not the answer to the gun problem we have in this country. If it was caused due to being 18 to 21, why do we not have mass shootings in every city across the nation constantly, as no city is short of 18 to 21 year old people? If it was tied to that age group, why do we have 21+ year old's, 30+ year old's, 40+ year old's..... all the way thru the elderly resulting in gun deaths? Why are the most gun deaths in the age group of 25 to 34 years old's?

I would guess that 18-21 is represented as perps for mass gun murder more than any other 3 year age span. Banning sales of guns to that age group sends a message: You need to be mature to buy a gun. I am against anyone being able to buy a gun but we have to propose legislation that has a chance of passing. Gun control has to be incremental in this mental country.

The only way the gun violence/death problems can be fixed is by reducing the number of guns in the United states.

You said it yourself.

 

[Moonbeam]

I would guess that 18-21 is represented as perps for mass gun murder more than any other 3 year age span. Banning sales of guns to that age group sends a message: You need to be mature to buy a gun. I am against anyone being able to buy a gun but we have to propose legislation that has a chance of passing. Gun control has to be incremental in this mental country.

You said it yourself.

And there it is, the problem of the left, the desire to tinker here and there with small steps instead of addressing the fact that what we need is a revolutionary change in our system. Conservatism is caused by paranoid fear, fear that can be manipulated by the cunning of egotists. We have met the enemy and the enemy is us. It's long past time to face the fact that mutual unconscious self loathing is a suicide pact.

We need a look in the mirror:

 

[akugami]

Exactly, the more you put people in cages and penalize them for the rebellion suppresses violence will create, the safer we will all be. There are no mass killings of the type we see on our school yards in maximum security prisons.

With enough restrictive laws and enough police or enough white Christians, all our problems will be solved. Liberals and conservatives are idiots.

You know who put people in cages? White christian right wingers.

Ask any woman who tries to have control over her own body.

Ask any minority, who wants the same freedom as everyone else.

Ask anyone whose religion is not christianity.

I don't agree with every liberal argument o action, but for the most part, they want everyone to behave decently towards each other, and they want equal rights for everyone.

The reason I vote democrat on every election now is because right wingers are fucking nutcases. I would like to evaluate a candidate on every issue, and pick the one I most agree with. The problem is, every fucking GOP politician is a shit stain. They will vote against anything put forth by democrats, even to the detriment of the entire USA, so they can "own da libs".

 

[MrSquished]

No. I see no answer in violence. I want a total social revolution, one that addresses the psychological ignorance that perpetuates the the cultural denial of the reality of universal self hate. To kill another person is only able to be done via the justification they deserve to die because they did something to challenge one’s self worth.

Republicans live in an altered reality and liberals want token changes. Nobody wants to know the depth of their illness and how to heal. We are all ideological but the only thing we can actually change is ourselves. There is only one thing standing in the of personal freedom and it is me, my assumptions that the answers are out there.

I thought you might have had that one slightly redeeming quality but it turns out you are Just like any other Republican gun nut fetishist.

 

[Muse]

Always attack

In my opinion arguments are always judged by whose ox gets gored and always twisted to represent something other than intended.

The best way to deal with Nazism is not to be one yourself. The best way to become one is to react out of fear. You don’t achieve such a state of fearlessness by ignoring them. You achieve it by confronting the fact that the cause of fascism is within you, your fear of your own hate.

You learned to hate by being told and buying into the belief you deserved it. This is the cage we are in and remain in because we only imagine we are free.

Speak for yourself. You do, but pretend it applies to everyone, a transparent and illusory refuge for your damaged ego.

 

[Moonbeam]

You know who put people in cages? White christian right wingers.

Ask any woman who tries to have control over her own body.

Ask any minority, who wants the same freedom as everyone else.

Ask anyone whose religion is not christianity.

I don't agree with every liberal argument o action, but for the most part, they want everyone to behave decently towards each other, and they want equal rights for everyone.

The reason I vote democrat on every election now is because right wingers are fucking nutcases. I would like to evaluate a candidate on every issue, and pick the one I most agree with. The problem is, every fucking GOP politician is a shit stain. They will vote against anything put forth by democrats, even to the detriment of the entire USA, so they can "own da libs".

Me too!

 

[Moonbeam]

I thought you might have had that one slightly redeeming quality but it turns out you are Just like any other Republican gun nut fetishist.

I am always full of good qualities right up to the point where I suggest things that you haven't discovered yet.

 

[Moonbeam]

Speak for yourself. You do, but pretend it applies to everyone, a transparent and illusory refuge for your damaged ego.

The thing about realizing you have a damaged ego is that you have to be past the fear of knowing what one looks like to know it.

Sell your certainty and buy open-mindedness. Wouldn't it be just your luck if I'm right and you do hate yourself too? Think how much it would explain. All of your suffering the product of a needless pride in your long suffering victimized ego.

The Evolutionary Consciousness of Rumi

I have been a fan of Rumi’s work for quite some time now, I loved his deep passion for life and his expressions of love and peace. But I never really grasped the spiritual profundity of his work un…

theunitycodex.wordpress.com

In case you are interested.

 

[fskimospy]

The reason there are more mass shootings in America is because more mentally ill people have availability to guns than in countries where fewer guns put fewer people at risk so fewer people feel a need for counter measures. So, as I described above, would you take a gun I could use were it the only way I could prevent somebody from throwing children off a cliff?

Look at it this way. You can stop gin violence by eliminating all guns. You can stop all gun violence by preventing the mental illness that creates it. You have no idea and are actually motivated never to see how to fix the source of violence so you focus on guns instead. But that is just another bag the cat long ago escaped. Guns are everywhere in the US and are constitutionally legal. Enlightened government would solve the former and fascism the latter. I know which will be preferred and why.

The idea that by ‘curing’ mental illness we would end gun violence is risible nonsense. The only reason this argument is ever made is so that pro-gun people can find something, anything to blame gun violence on other than the widespread availability of guns.

More guns means more death, period. If you’re foolish enough to own a gun you’re putting your life in greater danger, not less. This is simply factual. If you want to pretend that’s not the case that’s your business but you can’t expect the rest of us to indulge your fantasies.

 

[fskimospy]

quick question, do more cars on the road cause more or less car accidents? How many of them are caused by the mentally ill? Will the number of cars accidents stop if we "fix" the mentally ill issue? Nope. They will continue to increase as long as the number of cars on the road continue to increase. The same thing holds true with guns. Yes, we have a mental care issue in this country, but fixing that problem, which does need to happen, will not fix the gun violence/death problem. As long as we have the number of guns in the United States increasing, the gun violence/death problem will continue to get worse. The only way the gun violence/death problems can be fixed is by reducing the number of guns in the United states. That fact won't change if you eliminate every mentally ill person in the country. Raising the minimum age to 21 to purchase a gun won't fix the problem either, it will just increase gun deaths in the 25 to 34 age group, which ALREADY has the most gun deaths.

Also we lack the means to cure mental illness even if we wanted to. We do not lack the means to ban guns.

While the idea that curing mental illness would end gun violence is self evidently silly we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that it’s also impossible.

 

[MrSquished]

I am always full of good qualities right up to the point where I suggest things that you haven't discovered yet.

So how do you feel we need to have guns if nobody is evil it's just self-hate? After all you berate me for trying to warn the Democrats about the enemy, saying I don't have enough faith in humanity.

But yet here you are, feeling the needs for tons of guns, including AR rifles, just to feel safe for day to day living. So there is evildoing out there - I mean you feel the need to have people armed to the teeth just to survive the day to day, and why would one need to be armed to the teeth except to protect ones self from evildoing - but some of us warning about a big potential evildoing in this country from the right wing white nationalists, which has happened in modern history many many times, is too alarming and mean for you.

Hypocrite much? Your own positions are so contradictory it is hilarious.

 

[Moonbeam]

The idea that by ‘curing’ mental illness we would end gun violence is risible nonsense. The only reason this argument is ever made is so that pro-gun people can find something, anything to blame gun violence on other than the widespread availability of guns.

More guns means more death, period. If you’re foolish enough to own a gun you’re putting your life in greater danger, not less. This is simply factual. If you want to pretend that’s not the case that’s your business but you can’t expect the rest of us to indulge your fantasies.

If you think the moon is made of cheese that's fine by me. I say think because I have already told you that it is obvious that I am at greater risk owning a gun than not owning one. I could accidentally shoot myself or one of my guns could be used against me. I have already expressed my awareness that easy gun availability means more frequent gun deaths, period.

The problem you have is that because you don't really understand human nature you have only shallow notions of how existential problems should be met. Your deep logic and rational ways of thinking have limitations you do not see. The way out is something that reason can never see. Reasoning is thinking and thought is of the past. Thought is the product of fear. Thought is a device by which the ego is created, a self that has no real existence. You have not experienced the death that can happen when the hopelessness of the condition you are in is realized.

You doubtless see this as an attack but it is not. I am pointing out an insufficiency. Do what you can to reduce the number of guns and the number of gun deaths. It will be a long uphill struggle but once you get there you will all the real causes of violence will remained unknown and unaffected. I am willingly foolish enough to own guns but you don't see nor choose your own foolishness. You don't see that your own blindness is the world you create, billions of souls in their own personally conceived Hells.

 

[fskimospy]

If you think the moon is made of cheese that's fine by me. I say think because I have already told you that it is obvious that I am at greater risk owning a gun than not owning one. I could accidentally shoot myself or one of my guns could be used against me. I have already expressed my awareness that easy gun availability means more frequent gun deaths, period.

The problem you have is that because you don't really understand human nature you have only shallow notions of how existential problems should be met. Your deep logic and rational ways of thinking have limitations you do not see. The way out is something that reason can never see. Reasoning is thinking and thought is of the past. Thought is the product of fear. Thought is a device by which the ego is created, a self that has no real existence. You have not experienced the death that can happen when the hopelessness of the condition you are in is realized.

You doubtless see this as an attack but it is not. I am pointing out an insufficiency. Do what you can to reduce the number of guns and the number of gun deaths. It will be a long uphill struggle but once you get there you will all the real causes of violence will remained unknown and unaffected. I am willingly foolish enough to own guns but you don't see nor choose your own foolishness. You don't see that your own blindness is the world you create, billions of souls in their own personally conceived Hells.

I don’t see this as an attack - I see this as babbling nonsense.

 

[sandorski]

Guns are innocent, we must perfect humanity.....

 

[Moonbeam]

So how do you feel we need to have guns if nobody is evil it's just self-hate? After all you berate me for trying to warn the Democrats about the enemy, saying I don't have enough faith in humanity.

But yet here you are, feeling the needs for tons of guns, including AR rifles, just to feel safe for day to day living. So there is evildoing out there - I mean you feel the need to have people armed to the teeth just to survive the day to day, and why would one need to be armed to the teeth except to protect ones self from evildoing - but some of us warning about a big potential evildoing in this country from the right wing white nationalists, which has happened in modern history many many times, is too alarming and mean for you.

Hypocrite much? Your own positions are so contradictory it is hilarious.

As usual, since you don't grasp the central insight that is fundamental to my viewpoint, you substitute yours for mine. I happen to like guns for artistic reasons. I love good design and mechanical ingenuity. I used to love to take things appart and put them back together as a child. I seem to have some small mechanical talent which I avoid using like the plague but building an AR 15 was a ton of fun. I spent hours and hours of research. But I have never torqued the various components to spec or finished the build much less sighted it in. I did it for fun and may pick it up again after I get tired of other sources of fun I am having get sidetracked by some new interest. Right now I am working on my home network preparing to expand my NAS drive capacity and ad a second NAS to the mix. They I want to localize and then backup storage in at least two different places. Then I need to learn how to connect an Iwatch to a new Iphone as well as transfer the data from my old one to it.

Fortunately I am very stupid so I get to spend weeks on end cursing at every screw-up I make on the path. Lucky for me I am only happy when I'm in a fit of rage.

So the problem with your analysis is that I am not motivated by fear. I am motivate by the opinion that somebody in the process of trying to kill me or someone around me doesn't deserve to succeed. Self defense is a natural instinct to any rational human being. It is you who are the nut case which you have a perfect right to be.

I find your anger at conservatives funny because it is an outrage I don't have. They can be as nuts as they want unless they try to act out. You have to be prevented from harming others physically even by being killed yourself if that's what it takes. You would be glad I was armed if I saved your life from some mad man with it. And that is an organic fact unless you're one hell of a Christian, but which would only motivate me more to shoot straight.

Everything comes down to the right of self defense. It isn't just a right, it's a duty. It's all about values. Those who will not act out are to be preferred to those who will when the former are in eminent threat by the latter. It's ethics one. You want to rob me of this human right in a society full of guns. OK by me so long as I have the last gun out there. The only hypocrisy involved is that I don't have any gun ready to go to use in a time critical emergency. I am not really worried that much. And it's going to take some effort to shoot myself. And by the time I decided to kill myself intentionally and got prepared, I would have forgotten my intention. WEEEEEE! I'm holding a gun. I wonder why? I know I had a reason but I can't remember what it was.

 

[MrSquished]

As usual, since you don't grasp the central insight that is fundamental to my viewpoint, you substitute yours for mine. I happen to like guns for artistic reasons. I love good design and mechanical ingenuity. I used to love to take things appart and put them back together as a child. I seem to have some small mechanical talent which I avoid using like the plague but building an AR 15 was a ton of fun. I spent hours and hours of research. But I have never torqued the various components to spec or finished the build much less sighted it in. I did it for fun and may pick it up again after I get tired of other sources of fun I am having get sidetracked by some new interest. Right now I am working on my home network preparing to expand my NAS drive capacity and ad a second NAS to the mix. They I want to localize and then backup storage in at least two different places. Then I need to learn how to connect an Iwatch to a new Iphone as well as transfer the data from my old one to it.

Fortunately I am very stupid so I get to spend weeks on end cursing at every screw-up I make on the path. Lucky for me I am only happy when I'm in a fit of rage.

So the problem with your analysis is that I am not motivated by fear. I am motivate by the opinion that somebody in the process of trying to kill me or someone around me doesn't deserve to succeed. Self defense is a natural instinct to any rational human being. It is you who are the nut case which you have a perfect right to be.

I find your anger at conservatives funny because it is an outrage I don't have. They can be as nuts as they want unless they try to act out. You have to be prevented from harming others physically even by being killed yourself if that's what it takes. You would be glad I was armed if I saved your life from some mad man with it. And that is an organic fact unless you're one hell of a Christian, but which would only motivate me more to shoot straight.

Everything comes down to the right of self defense. It isn't just a right, it's a duty. It's all about values. Those who will not act out are to be preferred to those who will when the former are in eminent threat by the latter. It's ethics one. You want to rob me of this human right in a society full of guns. OK by me so long as I have the last gun out there. The only hypocrisy involved is that I don't have any gun ready to go to use in a time critical emergency. I am not really worried that much. And it's going to take some effort to shoot myself. And by the time I decided to kill myself intentionally and got prepared, I would have forgotten my intention. WEEEEEE! I'm holding a gun. I wonder why? I know I had a reason but I can't remember what it was.

yada yada blah blah that's right you want to be able to defend yourself. Now I'm sure some people are not inherently evil, but just desperate, but there are definitely also just shitty people around, and I'm glad you recognize the need to be able to defend yourself against those types of folks.

so how about you stop minimizing my calls to defend against white nationalist theocratic fascist Nazis, a phenomenon well-known in recent history, because it's really terrible to just want to be able to defend yourself, and yet shit on others who are simply saying the same thing. except instead of wanting to defend ourselves against just thievery and random murderers and violent folks, like you do, we want to defend ourselves against Nazis.

all your fake neo-buddhist babble is just to make yourself feel good about what you want, while berating others for the same thing. you really are the thing you hate. you project your own self-hate just on others, and absolve yourself of it by making this magical distinction that what you want must be different.