Got my X1900XT

[Munky]

i guess we'll find out soon enough if i see a bunch of "omg, my 7900gt just died" threads...

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
[
Price is similar, lower power consumption, less heat, less noise ( yes the GT cooler is noisy but not near the jet plane cooler on the ATI cards.)

Both cards were reviewed, and both show a 50db rating. Seems to be the same to me.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/326/4/

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/329/4/

Its time for NV fans to stop pretending that the GT is so much quieter than the XT/X. Going by these reviews, its not.

Would you like me to pick and choose a review also Ackmed? You know there are other sites like H showing much higher db than 50 for the X1800XT. Should I bother? I don't think so.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Extelleron

They can handle it, maybe. The fact is, there IS A REASON why those cores arent being used in the GTX's- they arent good enough. nVidia is saying, when they give you a 7900GT core, that that core you're getting didnt meet the specifications for the GTX, aka 650 MHz, and 1.4v. Therefore, running it at those settings and beyond is NOT 100% safe whatsoever, and eventually, whether it be in a year or two or longer, it WILL fail. That might not be so bad, who keeps the card that long anyway? BUT, alot of people dont seem to be happy with 1.4v and GTX speeds. They are increasing it to 1.5v, 1.6v, even 1.7v. Now THOSE are unsafe voltages, and by using them you're just asking for your card to fail in a few months. Sure, you can get XTX speeds out of most 7900GT's by taking the voltage up to 1.5v or 1.6v, but dont expect it to last long.

Heh, completely untrue. What if every core was perfect and good enough to be a GTX? Would there be no 7900GT's at @ the 300.00 price point? I don't think so. Nvidia needs to fill this price point and as you can see, they are selling very well. Not only are they die shrink, but the transistor count has been substantially reduced costing Nvidia a whole lot less money to make a G71 core than it did a G70 core. A whole lot more GT's than GTX's are selling I would imagine. I am certain there are cores that are better/worse than others. No two cores are identical but are within specs. You saying it "WILL" fail is just plain absurd. You don't know that at all. It's just something for you to say to take away from the card. This I can understand. And know that I understand it. 1.4v is safe IMHO if the GTX can run it without any probs. 1.5v is probably ok also. Anything higher like you said could be damaging to the cores, I would agree.

EDIT: Look at all the X800GTO's/2 that utilized perfectly good R480 cores. I heard the success rate of unlocking GTO's/2's were very high. BIOS flashing, o/c'ing like mad and the whole 9 yards.
Do you think those GTO's will burn out?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: munky
i guess we'll find out soon enough if i see a bunch of "omg, my 7900gt just died" threads...

Maybe we will see some for XT's and XTX's when people increase the volts through software. You think? Some may die right away, and some may take years. Who knows.
I would settle for 1.4v and run it at GTX speeds. Others may get very greedy and push it much further, and that's their perogitive, and their risk. This is not the first time voltages have been increased on video cards and it wont be the last.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: munky
i guess we'll find out soon enough if i see a bunch of "omg, my 7900gt just died" threads...

Maybe we will see some for XT's and XTX's when people increase the volts through software. You think? Some may die right away, and some may take years. Who knows.
I would settle for 1.4v and run it at GTX speeds. Others may get very greedy and push it much further, and that's their perogitive, and their risk. This is not the first time voltages have been increased on video cards and it wont be the last.

The same goes for the xt's. The difference is aside from xtremesystems.org, not that many people here are increasing the voltage on their xt's. However, 1.4v should be safe for a 7900gt, since it's the same as the gtx voltage. I think the whole reason NV put 1.2v is to prevent another case of a 6800gt -> 6800u overclock, leaving fewer sales for the more expensive card. Apparently they didnt try hard enough.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
[
Price is similar, lower power consumption, less heat, less noise ( yes the GT cooler is noisy but not near the jet plane cooler on the ATI cards.)

Both cards were reviewed, and both show a 50db rating. Seems to be the same to me.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/326/4/

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/329/4/

Its time for NV fans to stop pretending that the GT is so much quieter than the XT/X. Going by these reviews, its not.

Would you like me to pick and choose a review also Ackmed? You know there are other sites like H showing much higher db than 50 for the X1800XT. Should I bother? I don't think so.

Pick and choose? I do not know of any other site that reviewed both cards, with a db rating, do you? If so, please share, I have not seen any. You cant cross-compare reviews, especially with different hardware. The guru3d test was 11 days apart, in the same case, with the same system. The only thing that changed was the video cards. They used the same device to test for sound. Thus, you can certainly compare the two numbers in different reviews. Do you, or do you not agree? HardOCP didnt do a db test on a 7900GT that I am aware of, so we cant compare their numbers. I do not have a GT to test myself, so I cannot say with first hand expierence, can you?

Price is similar, lower power consumption, less heat, less noise

Similar price? Not hardly. The X1800XT 512MB is at least $50 cheaper at newegg. Thats a big difference. And you get 2x the ram. Lower power consumption? This is true, however when you vmod and heavily overclock, it shoots the consumption number up a lot, almost double. Less heat? Probably still. Although after the vmod and overclock, the heat would go up a lot. And the heat is dumped inside the case, where as with the XT, its exhausted out of the case. Less noise? Ive already refuted that claim, with facts. Although, with a vmod you would need an aftermarket cooler to cool it wel enough, making it much quieter. But then you could also do that with the XT as well. So that point is pretty moot. As you can see, its not so one-sided as you like to claim it to be.

I am not against the 7900GT vmod. Increasing the bang for your buck is a great thing. Just as some GTO's for ATi can be flashed for more pipes. I flashed a X800 Pro to 16 pipes XT/PE for my brother. Huge increase in performance. About a year later, still going strong. I like cards that do this. I dont normally buy them for myself, but they can be a great card for the price.

I personally don't care much for HDR. I tried it in FarCry and HL2 Lost Coast. So HDR is not very "alluring" for me for this implementation or generation ..... I tend to think Transparency AA is better than ATI's implementation and ATI has better AF. There are trade off's to make for certain. And a lot of it comes down to preference when decisions become hard.

I agree with this pretty much. HDR did not blow me away when Farcry first had it. Most of the time it looks too fake. But then there are times it does look very good to me. Such as coming out of indoors, and your eyes have to "adjust" to the light. That looks good. The sand however glows too much to me, and looks fake. HDR in Oblivion however looks good all the time to me. Not so much in SC: CT. It varies from game to game to me.

From a few shots from reviews (HL2 mainly), TRAA does do a better job than AAA on certain things. Overall, I think its pretty close. And it does come down to personal preferences.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
[
Price is similar, lower power consumption, less heat, less noise ( yes the GT cooler is noisy but not near the jet plane cooler on the ATI cards.)

Both cards were reviewed, and both show a 50db rating. Seems to be the same to me.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/326/4/

http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/329/4/

Its time for NV fans to stop pretending that the GT is so much quieter than the XT/X. Going by these reviews, its not.

Would you like me to pick and choose a review also Ackmed? You know there are other sites like H showing much higher db than 50 for the X1800XT. Should I bother? I don't think so.

Pick and choose? I do not know of any other site that reviewed both cards, with a db rating, do you? If so, please share, I have not seen any. You cant cross-compare reviews, especially with different hardware. The guru3d test was 11 days apart, in the same case, with the same system. The only thing that changed was the video cards. They used the same device to test for sound. Thus, you can certainly compare the two numbers in different reviews. Do you, or do you not agree? HardOCP didnt do a db test on a 7900GT that I am aware of, so we cant compare their numbers. I do not have a GT to test myself, so I cannot say with first hand expierence, can you?

All I have to show you is H's noise and power consumption section of a review they did of 7800GTX, 7800GTX512, and X1800XT. But you said I can't use the db rating H gave it because anything greater than 11 days renders old noise benchmarks inadmissible. Very well. ( I know you didn't say this, but you put a time contraint on it with your 11 day comment and I wondered why.).

Price is similar, lower power consumption, less heat, less noise

Similar price? Not hardly. The X1800XT 512MB is at least $50 cheaper at newegg. Thats a big difference. And you get 2x the ram. Lower power consumption? This is true, however when you vmod and heavily overclock, it shoots the consumption number up a lot, almost double. Less heat? Probably still. Although after the vmod and overclock, the heat would go up a lot. And the heat is dumped inside the case, where as with the XT, its exhausted out of the case. Less noise? Ive already refuted that claim, with facts. Although, with a vmod you would need an aftermarket cooler to cool it wel enough, making it much quieter. But then you could also do that with the XT as well. So that point is pretty moot. As you can see, its not so one-sided as you like to claim it to be.

If it is 50 dollars more, it is still worth the price for the 7900GT to obtain 7900GTX performance. (Spend 25 bucks more on a cooler) is worth it to me.
As you can see, I did not buy my 7900GT yet. I am waiting for the prices to lower, and they will.

I am not against the 7900GT vmod. Increasing the bang for your buck is a great thing. Just as some GTO's for ATi can be flashed for more pipes. I flashed a X800 Pro to 16 pipes XT/PE for my brother. Huge increase in performance. About a year later, still going strong. I like cards that do this. I dont normally buy them for myself, but they can be a great card for the price.

Very cool

I personally don't care much for HDR. I tried it in FarCry and HL2 Lost Coast. So HDR is not very "alluring" for me for this implementation or generation ..... I tend to think Transparency AA is better than ATI's implementation and ATI has better AF. There are trade off's to make for certain. And a lot of it comes down to preference when decisions become hard.

I agree with this pretty much. HDR did not blow me away when Farcry first had it. Most of the time it looks too fake. But then there are times it does look very good to me. Such as coming out of indoors, and your eyes have to "adjust" to the light. That looks good. The sand however glows too much to me, and looks fake. HDR in Oblivion however looks good all the time to me. Not so much in SC: CT. It varies from game to game to me.

From a few shots from reviews (HL2 mainly), TRAA does do a better job than AAA on certain things. Overall, I think its pretty close. And it does come down to personal preferences.

Agreed

 

[fierydemise]

Hey you guys, if you want to debate the vmod of the 7900 start up another thread. Remember this thread was for ST to share his X1900 experiences.

 

[Ackmed]

I did not put a 11 day commitment on anything. I simply noted it, as well as the facts that they used the same exact system, its pretty easy to draw a comparison between the two reviews. I didnt say you couldnt use Hards review with numbers. It doesnt matter if they did a db rating on the 7800 series, that is not what this is about. Its about the noise comparison between the 7900GT and the X1800XT. Pretty simple to me to understand. The chances of Hard and guru doing the db rating at the same exact distance, with the same exact hardware, is next to zero. They used different hardware, so you cannot compare the db rating from Hard, to guru. I said that I didnt know of any other review that used a db rating for both the GT and XT. Do you have a link?

I pointed out that $50 is not a "similar price". The XT as I said, also has 512MB of ram.

Originally posted by: fierydemise
Hey you guys, if you want to debate the vmod of the 7900 start up another thread. Remember this thread was for ST to share his X1900 experiences.

Yes, a vmoddded GT. Not that he has actually even shared anything but 3dmarks... yet. Or that we dont already have reviews.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Price is similar, lower power consumption, less heat, less noise ( yes the GT cooler is noisy but not near the jet plane cooler on the ATI cards.) I tend to think Transparency AA is better than ATI's implementation and ATI has better AF. There are trade off's to make for certain. And a lot of it comes down to preference when decisions become hard.

But once you do the 1.4v mod it won't be cool anymore right?? So you have to change to an aftermarket cooler anyway. But I guess everyone has their preferences as you stated.

 

[Ackmed]

Actually, you paid $320 + tax. Then the $50 MIR kicked it. So its not $260 as you claimed, but much closer to $300. Still a good deal though. Tax can be a killer, depending on where you are.

newegg has a XT for $375 too, not $425. They have an instant $50 off, with the coupon code "iloveati". Which works in any ATi card over $300, I believe. So the X1800XT 512MB retail is $265 shipped. No MIR needed.

 

[Keysplayr]

I'd love to hear this one.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: thilan29

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Price is similar, lower power consumption, less heat, less noise ( yes the GT cooler is noisy but not near the jet plane cooler on the ATI cards.) I tend to think Transparency AA is better than ATI's implementation and ATI has better AF. There are trade off's to make for certain. And a lot of it comes down to preference when decisions become hard.

But once you do the 1.4v mod it won't be cool anymore right?? So you have to change to an aftermarket cooler anyway. But I guess everyone has their preferences as you stated.

Needless to say it won't be "as" cool as it was before. And aftermarket cooling is always in the equation for something like this. So if it ends up costing me 350.00 for a 7900GT, conductive pen and cooler, I'm good with that cause I know what speeds I can reasonably obtain. At least a 500.00 GTX speed. And yes, preference does usually play a part.

 

[Elfear]

Something else to consider about the safeness of vmodding a 7900GT is that, at least with the X1800XT and X1800XL, there is a physical difference in the amount of voltage regulators each has. It isn't as safe (according to the vmodding gurus) to give the XL a lot of volts since it only has 5 voltage regulators and the XT has 6 (X1900XT has 7). Anyone know if there is a similiar differecnce between the GT and GTX?

Also, like Joker mentioned, after you voltmod the Nvidia cards they run at higher volts all the time. That was one of the reasons I sold my voltmodded 7800GTs, I had to run them at elevated volts even though only 10% of my everyday computing is gaming. I have much greater peace of mind now (maybe I just worry too much) knowing my video card isn't going to have an accelerated death because of word processing. While 1.4V doesn't sound excessive (IF the circuitry between the GT and GTX are the same), an aftermarket cooler is definetely in order. At 1.5-1.7V, I'd start to get nervous. ViperJohn recomended that I not go over 1.65V on my 7800GTs with watercooling and those are built on a larger 110nm architecture.

 

[golem]

Also, like Joker mentioned, after you voltmod the Nvidia cards they run at higher volts all the time. That was one of the reasons I sold my voltmodded 7800GTs, I had to run them at elevated volts even though only 10% of my everyday computing is gaming.

Would it help the expected life of a voltmodded card if you lowered the clockspeed of the core/mem when not gaming?

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
it's a fact increasing voltages cause breakdown between electrical 'traces' over time. this increases as voltages are raised beyond design limits. it's not a matter of "if", but rather a matter of "when". while it could be months, it can also be years. it just on how much the design parameters are exceeded.

i think he clearly mentioned this: if people wanna potentially bust their cards..... let them its none of your business.

wtf are you talking about? did i dictate to anyone whether they should or shouldn't?

it was stated, "stop stating what you think will happen as a fact that will happen. "

that they can or cannot is up to them; i was simply stating the breakdown of the circuit due to excessive voltage is a fact. it's called electormigration. this can be caused by heat (which can be monitored and controlled via more effective cooling methods) or excessive voltage (this cannot be controlled). it's mutually exclusive, however the presence of both conditions will speed up the rate of degradation.

like i said, it could take weeks, months, or years, depending on several varibles - but it does happen.

why do you think it voids the warranty? just cause? maybe manufacturers are just anal? no (well, maybe the are, but that's not the reason). it's because it potentially does physical damage to the components.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
But in this case, the voltage is only increased to what a 7900GTX runs at stock. So the cores can handle it IMHO. I'm no electrical engineer, but it seems logical.

most should w/o issue, but i was replying to staments of using 1.5, 1.6, 1.7v and up. still not all GT cores are perfect, and my not run at those specs for the same reason not all will hit 600mhz, 650mhz, etc.

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Heh, completely untrue. What if every core was perfect and good enough to be a GTX? Would there be no 7900GT's at @ the 300.00 price point?

i can't believe you would make a statement like that. you've been around awhile, and have always been fairly ... logical.. but this statment?

every chip is not "perfect" and that's what makes overclocking such a good option at times. you should know how chips are manufactured, so i am not going to go into an elaborate explanation, other than to say your statement above is completely inaccurate.

i every chip came off the wafer "perfect" as you put it, you would't see multiple variations of high end chips. you'd probably only see say, a midrange chip such as a 7600gt (different chips), and another lower range...

multiple variations of the same chip are offered because due to the manufacturing process; chips from the same design/process don't all perform equally.. that's basic knowledge and you should know better.

 

[Keysplayr]

One thing I can say that everyone can relate to is, and this is fact, if you run hardware out of spec (higher than it's meant to) then it will die sooner than if you didn't. No if's and's or but's. No set time on how long or short. But it's definite.

 

[Cookie Monster]

So wheres ST?

 

[CaiNaM]

lol.. prolly having to do a lot of messin around with hardware, finding max oc's, stable settings, etc. and if by chance he's gotten past that, he's gotta run all those benchmarks, lol.

 

[Keysplayr]

Good. I hope he takes his time an produces some good and accurate benches. I would like to see the very best from both of his cards on a wide array of games. Synthetics? Meh...

 

[Alaa]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
it's a fact increasing voltages cause breakdown between electrical 'traces' over time. this increases as voltages are raised beyond design limits. it's not a matter of "if", but rather a matter of "when". while it could be months, it can also be years. it just on how much the design parameters are exceeded.

i think he clearly mentioned this: if people wanna potentially bust their cards..... let them its none of your business.

wtf are you talking about? did i dictate to anyone whether they should or shouldn't?

it was stated, "stop stating what you think will happen as a fact that will happen. "

that they can or cannot is up to them; i was simply stating the breakdown of the circuit due to excessive voltage is a fact. it's called electormigration. this can be caused by heat (which can be monitored and controlled via more effective cooling methods) or excessive voltage (this cannot be controlled). it's mutually exclusive, however the presence of both conditions will speed up the rate of degradation.

like i said, it could take weeks, months, or years, depending on several varibles - but it does happen.

why do you think it voids the warranty? just cause? maybe manufacturers are just anal? no (well, maybe the are, but that's not the reason). it's because it potentially does physical damage to the components.

well u just said that earlier..anyway, if i want my card dead then its still none of your business

 

[Praxis1452]

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Alaa

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
it's a fact increasing voltages cause breakdown between electrical 'traces' over time. this increases as voltages are raised beyond design limits. it's not a matter of "if", but rather a matter of "when". while it could be months, it can also be years. it just on how much the design parameters are exceeded.

i think he clearly mentioned this: if people wanna potentially bust their cards..... let them its none of your business.

wtf are you talking about? did i dictate to anyone whether they should or shouldn't?

it was stated, "stop stating what you think will happen as a fact that will happen. "

that they can or cannot is up to them; i was simply stating the breakdown of the circuit due to excessive voltage is a fact. it's called electormigration. this can be caused by heat (which can be monitored and controlled via more effective cooling methods) or excessive voltage (this cannot be controlled). it's mutually exclusive, however the presence of both conditions will speed up the rate of degradation.

like i said, it could take weeks, months, or years, depending on several varibles - but it does happen.

why do you think it voids the warranty? just cause? maybe manufacturers are just anal? no (well, maybe the are, but that's not the reason). it's because it potentially does physical damage to the components.

well u just said that earlier..anyway, if i want my card dead then its still none of your business

That's the most retarded statement I have ever heard. Just leave troll.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: Praxis1452
The ATI guys aren't freaking... When someone basically says "time for the bs to stop" that's flamebait and you know it as well as I do.

Why do you say that? Don't you see I'm shacking? :disgust: :laugh:

The 7900gt is a good card. In my honest opinion the X1800XT is better. You guys all talk about volt modding the 7900gt. Well if you voltmod you lose your warranty. And you need to replaced the pathetic stock 7900gt cooler. I won't touch that thing from a mile away. But whenever someone mentions to just use an aftermarket cooler for the X1800/X1900XT's for silence the NV fans must mention that you lose your warranty. Anyone can clearly see the biases here. Live with it. God people are biased. Everything you do is biased. Objectivity is determined by subjectivity. If you want a philisophical debate I'd be happy to pm you :-D.

Agreed 100%. It all comes down to what you want..
1. 7900GT for higher o/cability through voltmod,knowing of course that you void your warranty.. It's one thing though to o/c and another to voltmod but anyway.. What is bugging me is that when ATI offers higher room for o/cing in their cards, many of the the Nvidiots in this forum downplay it by saying.. "Meh I don't want to O/C I want stock speed comparison.. " Now they are showing a sudden interest in O/Cing potential :disgust:
2. X1800XT for better IQ and HDR+AA. But then again who cares for HDR+AA some might say? :disgust:

ST's is a good oc. Who is denying that? But to say it's easy? I'd like to see some proof stating so many people can get 700mhz. Techpowerup did a review on a 7900gtx and they got the core to 658 at stock with that huge cooler. It uses 1.4v if I'm not mistaken so how is it easy to get 700mhz. And this is a GTX certified chip...

Exception confirms the rule..For Crist sake 700MHz as an o/c routine? OMG what else am I going to hear? And I won't even bother to state what I think about those that go beyond 1.4V for 24/7...

Even if the 7900gt is the same performance wise as any X1900XT which I would highly doubt there are many more factors. To some people AVIVO matters. To some people image quality. Really look at what you value more. For me it's the fact that Nvidia seems to cut corners and that I'm against there marketing policy/policies that makes me refuse to buy them. Whatever attributes you value more look at them and see which card suits you best.

Why do you sat that? .. Yes, because a card has a very good o/cing potential then it is instantly not worth to buy the x1900xt because if I bump the voltage to the sky I may surpass it as well!! And every X1900XT has bad o/cing potential that's for given.. Some need to take a walk at XS forums.. Besides that other factors don't matter, you should know that!!
OMG the last years I was pissed equally by both camp fans.. But the lame excuses that Nvidiots and Rollo wanabees are using lately make me feel sick... :disgust:
And beyond the regular fanATIcs many ppl inside here are taking ATI's side just to counter balance this absurd Nvidia fanatism.. It goes beyond limits..

 

[Praxis1452]

Hey I don't lie lol. I never say OMGZOR's Nvidia cards suck. I just don't really like the company that's about it... and think that if you compare both cards at what the company reccomends then you get a better product from ATI. O/Cing varies so it's never dependable.