Got Gas? U.S. Economy to Worsen as Gas Prices Skyrocket

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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Londo_Jowo said:
Several refineries in the Houston area has begun their turnarounds and several more will start next week. The shop where I work is getting busy and probably won't slow down until March.
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yea, my buddy was telling me he's going to pick back up in Feb, but he has slown down to 40hrs now.
 
T

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Darwin333 said:
Speculation is by definition risky. If they intended on just holding on to their money they would buy bonds or stick the money in the bank or under their matress. Houses do burn down but a rich fucker can afford a really nice fireproof safe. As far as banks failing, spread it among the current biggest 3 banks in the US and you have the full backing of the US government.

Question, if you had put $10,000 under your mattress 50 years ago and took it out today would you be able to buy more or less "stuff" with that $10K today?
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true, that's what I said. your argument isnt with me..
 
D

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
bfdd said:
dmcowen, btw you need to stfu with the "OMG TANKERS ARE SITTING IN HARBORS!" you do realize that this time of the year is when a lot of production is taken offline to do overhauls on machinery and systems right? Man turn-arounds were fun. I loved making like 2500 a week rofl.
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Overhaul my ass

I'm not the one saying there is no oil.
 
C

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
K1052 said:
The vast majority of our oil doesn't come from the ME. Mostly domestic, Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Africa, etc...

To free our economy from dependence of the political and economic problems of petroleum we need to eliminate our importation and reduce our overall need for it substantially. Growing fuel feedstock on our production land isn't a good idea since it would increase food costs.

Personal electric and hybrid vehicles are probably going to be part of our future for some time to come. The Leaf and Volt will hopefully present a compelling proof of concept and take root. There are other battery technologies other than lithium that can be leveraged that will help avoid the environmental issues with lithium mining.
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20-30% from countries we'd rather not be tied to is more than enough to do what we can to get ourselves off it.

I agree that The Future is electric. The problem is, it's the future, not right now. When there's an evironmentally friendly, and sustainable, way to make the batteries and electric motors, without use of foreign countries, then we'll have arrived at it - and of course having any needed power infrastructure needed to run them.

As far as I know, we're not in any remote way close to that.

We have an alternative right now that can greatly help ween us away from that 20-30% usage, while the electric vehicle has time to mature....we ought to be using it, not squandering it.

Chuck
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,543
46,115
136
chucky2 said:
20-30% from countries we'd rather not be tied to is more than enough to do what we can to get ourselves off it.

I agree that The Future is electric. The problem is, it's the future, not right now. When there's an evironmentally friendly, and sustainable, way to make the batteries and electric motors, without use of foreign countries, then we'll have arrived at it - and of course having any needed power infrastructure needed to run them.

As far as I know, we're not in any remote way close to that.

We have an alternative right now that can greatly help ween us away from that 20-30% usage, while the electric vehicle has time to mature....we ought to be using it, not squandering it.

Chuck
Click to expand...

Since it is a globally traded and consumed commodity there is no way to really "free" ourselves of it while still using it.

Arguably the future is already arriving in dealerships in the form of the Leaf and the Volt. This country is ready for alternatives and once economies of scale take over the extra costs will be negligible. We most certainly have the ablility to generate the electricity need...the question is how do to it and as of late utilities are leaning to domestic natural gas in all its forms, syngas made from coal, and nuclear.

We should not be using up our arable land that is in food production to make biofuels.
 
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desy

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2000
5,446
214
106
Little land has been taken away for food production by the introduction of bio fuels.
45 % of crop production went to animal feed 55% food. today its 55% animal feed as a by product of biofuels and 45% food of which 20% gets exported anyway.
Paying farmers is much better than terrorsit governments I think.

Much like electric cars being in their infancy so are biofuels, and certainly as viable if not more so than electric, which has no storage technology with anywhere near the energy density of biofuels. Not to mention most cars can use biofuels up to E15 easily today without modification.
 
C

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
The reason I like biocrops, especially biodiesel, is it's a long term solution to clean up other diesel equipment like trains, ships, airplanes, and big rigs. Even if all the light vehicle usage is converted to electric (not happening for a loooonnngggg time), whatever advances and infrastructure we build out for biodiesel will be used...forever. So it's not a loss at all.

As far as I've heard, and admittedly I haven't stayed up on it as much as I was in the past, there is nothing on the market for mass usage, nor nothing coming to market for mass usage in the nearterm, that is going to replace lithium for battery technology.

All these electric vehicles depend on lithium to get the performance they're getting, and lithium in mass quantities is mined. So we're just raping the earth in some other country to use up yet another resource we're not going to be able to replace once it's gone, when we could be growing crops - forever - and getting a bigger bang for the buck.

Chuck
 
D

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/09/city-of-the-highest-gas-price/

1-10-2011
Chicago, City Of The Highest Gas Price


The twice-monthly Lundberg Survey has found the price of regular gasoline has risen about nine cents a gallon over three weeks to $3.08.

Lundberg says the highest gas price in the country was recorded in Chicago at $3.35 a gallon. The low, $2.73, was in Salt Lake City, Utah.
====================================================
Many downtown stations are 30 cents or more higher than the reported $3.35
 
dali71

dali71

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
1,117
21
81
dmcowen674 said:
I drive a little Tiburon that gets 35MPG.
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1146293-225629_fat_guy_in_car_super.jpg
 
C

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
dmcowen674 said:
That's what is expected here and Chicago PD conducted riot drills for.
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Riots? Chicago is long time Dem controlled, and hence Utopia. And all the residents in Crook County are angels.

You must mean they practiced so they could be lent out to other major metro areas? No way would anyone in Crook ever riot......

Chuck
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,543
46,115
136
desy said:
Little land has been taken away for food production by the introduction of bio fuels.
45 % of crop production went to animal feed 55% food. today its 55% animal feed as a by product of biofuels and 45% food of which 20% gets exported anyway.
Paying farmers is much better than terrorsit governments I think.

Much like electric cars being in their infancy so are biofuels, and certainly as viable if not more so than electric, which has no storage technology with anywhere near the energy density of biofuels. Not to mention most cars can use biofuels up to E15 easily today without modification.
Click to expand...

As long as we use oil in our transportation systems we will be at the mercy of the oil producers. Even if we produced ALL our own oil we would still be in the same situation since it is a traded commodity, everything is linked.
 
C

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Not traded though when the Gov tells the growers and refiners: You'll be selling what's grown here for use in the US.

Mega Rich CEO: Why would I do that?

Gov: Because we just backed all that infrastructure, and unless you'd like to fall down some stairs, it'll be sold right here. Don't worry, you'll still be a Billionaire.

Mega Rich CEO: Okey dokey.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,543
46,115
136
chucky2 said:
All these electric vehicles depend on lithium to get the performance they're getting, and lithium in mass quantities is mined. So we're just raping the earth in some other country to use up yet another resource we're not going to be able to replace once it's gone, when we could be growing crops - forever - and getting a bigger bang for the buck.

Chuck
Click to expand...

Even a reasonable guess at how much Li is commercially obtainable is not possible right now. Demand for the metal has historically been low so nobody has been out chasing down deposits until the last few decades. It is generally thought that we have substantial domestic reserves in various clays, brines, and ores somewhere in the several million ton range.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,543
46,115
136
chucky2 said:
Not traded though when the Gov tells the growers and refiners: You'll be selling what's grown here for use in the US.

Mega Rich CEO: Why would I do that?

Gov: Because we just backed all that infrastructure, and unless you'd like to fall down some stairs, it'll be sold right here. Don't worry, you'll still be a Billionaire.

Mega Rich CEO: Okey dokey.
Click to expand...

At government controlled prices I assume. That would be the only way to avoid getting totally fucked in the ass by the domestic oligopoly you suggested.
 
C

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
K1052 said:
Even a reasonable guess at how much Li is commercially obtainable is not possible right now. Demand for the metal has historically been low so nobody has been out chasing down deposits until the last few decades. It is generally thought that we have substantial domestic reserves in various clays, brines, and ores somewhere in the several million ton range.
Click to expand...

So we don't know.

And we'll need to rape the earth to get it.

Awesome.
 
C

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
K1052 said:
At government controlled prices I assume. That would be the only way to avoid getting totally fucked in the ass by the domestic oligopoly you suggested.
Click to expand...

Every Dem would be onboard with this, it's literally no different than nationalized healthcare, in the biodiesel form. Every Rep should love it, it virtually gives every farming community a guaranteed job for at least the next 100 years, likely longer.

The only two potential large issues is water usage - have to address that - and fertilizer usage, also needs to be addressed.

We don't need more water being consumed, and we don't need yet more chemicals making it to the water....including Gulf of Mexico runoff.

What's not to love?

Chuck
 
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