GOP Debate live - 1-14-16

[LegendKiller]

Nonsense. Conservatives have already tipped their hand on legal immigration by speaking out against H-1B visas and birthright citizenship.

FFS, a conservative pundit just opined that a natural born citizen, the Republican governor of a state, should be deported back to where her immigrant parents came from. It doesn't get much more anti-legal immigration than that.

Yeah, because H1B program abuse and anchor babies is such a horrible thing to curb.


Are you an American? I ask because you really don't seem to give a fuck about this country, or its people.

 

[cyclohexane]

They will self deport I'd you remove the jobs and free shit.

Millions of Irish immigrants came to the US in the 1900s, with no jobs and no"free shit". Did any of them "self-deport"???

 

[flexy]

"Trump's protectionist ideas"

How do those "protectionist ideas" look? What CONCRETE THINGS has he proposed?

Don't tell me "lower taxes" because no company will stop off-shoring/outsourcing to China or Mexico just because of some "lower taxes". Not if Mr. Whang from Shenzhen works for pennies an hour. Not when manufacturing a car in Mexico is *significantly* cheaper than having it made in Detroit.

Trump had the audacity BLAMING THE CHINESE for a lack of jobs and a poor economy...so how exactly are the Chinese to blame for Apple (one example of many) producing in Shenzhen and, gets better, offshoring their profits in the Cayman Islands? How is this the Chinese's fault?

When is dumbass Trump addressing ACTUAL, REAL issues rather than blaming everyone else? Do you also believe that "lower taxes" will magically create jobs? Is Apple, HP, Ford, GM etc. moving back to the US just because there are "some lower taxes"? If anyone believes this they're dumb and naive.

 

[flexy]

Yeah, because H1B program abuse and anchor babies is such a horrible thing to curb.


Are you an American? I ask because you really don't seem to give a fuck about this country, or its people.

"Anchor babies" are, by the way, growing up fully legal, tax paying citizens.

Are Trumptards implying that anchor babies also get "illegal jobs"? Or is the problem with "anchor babies" simply that they're not white..and have Latino heritage? Aka: RACISM
("They shouldn't have jobs because their parents are illegal?") Tell me!

***

If we're already at the age old, incredible idiotic "anchor baby" debate...why just deny "anchor babies" of Latino heritage citizenship and rights and deport them?

If the idea is to deny them rights and deport them because their parents are illegal, the next logical step would be applying the same principle to others. For example, folks from other countries that immigrate into the US, folks who marry US citizens etc., folks who via various reasons become "natural citizens" at some point

 

[UglyCasanova]

Honest question, does this country need more people? What good does it do for us?

 

[shady28]

"Anchor babies" are, by the way, growing up fully legal, tax paying citizens.

Are Trumptards implying that anchor babies also get "illegal jobs"? Or is the problem with "anchor babies" simply that they're not white..and have Latino heritage? Aka: RACISM
("They shouldn't have jobs because their parents are illegal?") Tell me!

***

If we're already at the age old, incredible idiotic "anchor baby" debate...why just deny "anchor babies" of Latino heritage citizenship and rights and deport them?

If the idea is to deny them rights and deport them because their parents are illegal, the next logical step would be applying the same principle to others. For example, folks from other countries that immigrate into the US, folks who marry US citizens etc., folks who via various reasons become "natural citizens" at some point

Your are remarkably ignorant, of your own candidate in your signature no less.

Anchor babies are a way for illegal aliens to force themselves into the immigration system.

H1B visas and H2B visas give away American jobs. Corporate types support these because it brings in low paid workers. Illegal immigration does the same thing targeting unskilled labor.

Cruz has advocated in the past for a 500% increase in H2B visas. He is a supporter of H1B visas. He wanted to significantly expand legal immigration, while stopping illegal immigration.

Cruz recently reversed course on that as it's not a politically viable stance on the right.

Sanders historically opposed expansion of visa programs. He would likely expand legal immigration. It's doubtful he would control the border.

It's very simple. Corporatists want H1B and H2B visa expansion. They want mass immigration. They want illegals. This is so they can depress wages, and bring in workers who are compliant and slave-like that won't rock the boat for them. Illegals won't be unionizing, for example.

They sell it to libtards like you by talking about the babies. Oh the babies, the poor children, the families.

What about your children, your family? I guess you don't give a shit about that eh?



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...bernie-sanders-is-skeptical-of-guest-workers/

My concerns are in regards to where we stand in terms of guest workers programs, made worse by amendments offered by Senator Hatch. What I do not support is, under the guise of immigrant reform, a process pushed by large corporations which results in more unemployment and lower wages for American workers.

As you well know, we remain in the midst of a severe recession. Real unemployment, once you consider people who've given up looking for work, is close to 14 percent, and in some parts of the country is even higher. For minorities it's very high, and we've got to address that. You have massively high unemployment for young people, yet we're talking about expanding visas so that young people from abroad can serve as life guards, become ski instructors, become front desk people, when young people in this country desperately need jobs to pay for a college education.

-Bernie Sanders

 

[Grooveriding]

What a freakshow. It's like a carnival act of insanity up there. The Republican party of the US is literally insane.

 

[flexy]

Honest question, does this country need more people? What good does it do for us?

No of course it does "no good" when immigrants, especially illegals, come in to an already struggling economy and job market.

However: CHICKEN & EGG

* Correct, the country "does not need" more people, but it only does so because jobs are scarce, the economy is poor etc...which means those people are an additional burden. No question about that.

But they are not THE PRIMARY CAUSE.

And Trump and Trumptards are never addressing the primary cause, but instead *think* the problem lies somewhere else.

Read: Did Jose and Miguel move jobs to Mexico and China?

Is preventing Jose and Miguel from coming in REALLY addressing the problem of a global market where company X can just move their manufacturing (and profits) abroad as a measure to cut costs?

You don't see what's wrong with that? You don't see that addressing the ACTUAL cause would be more effective than focusing on secondary things (illegals, immigrants etc.) and *claiming* they're the main cause for problems? They are NOT.

 

[Indus]

Sometimes an image is worth a 1000 words..

 

[shady28]

And Trump and Trumptards are never addressing the primary cause, but instead *think* the problem lies somewhere else.

Read: Did Jose and Miguel move jobs to Mexico and China?
...

Again, you're ignorant.

Did you not hear what Trump said about China, and trade?

You may not agree with his solution but it's deceptive to say he is not identifying a primary cause, and providing a possible solution.

 

[flexy]

Your are remarkably ignorant, of your own candidate in your signature no less.

Anchor babies are a way for illegal aliens to force themselves into the immigration system.

H1B visas and H2B visas give away American jobs. Corporate types support these because it brings in low paid workers. Illegal immigration does the same thing targeting unskilled labor.

Cruz has advocated in the past for a 500% increase in H2B visas. He is a supporter of H1B visas. He wanted to significantly expand legal immigration, while stopping illegal immigration.

Cruz recently reversed course on that as it's not a politically viable stance on the right.

Sanders historically opposed expansion of visa programs. He would likely expand legal immigration. It's doubtful he would control the border.

It's very simple. Corporatists want H1B and H2B visa expansion. They want mass immigration. They want illegals. This is so they can depress wages, and bring in workers who are compliant and slave-like that won't rock the boat for them. Illegals won't be unionizing, for example.

They sell it to libtards like you by talking about the babies. Oh the babies, the poor children, the families.

What about your children, your family? I guess you don't give a shit about that eh?

I am NOT supporting H1B and H2B visa worker "imports" in the same way as I am not actually supporting offshoring and outsourcing.

Yes this is a global economy, but how it works RIGHT NOW is poised to fail...and it's ultimately OUR disadvantage.

If it weren't, we wouldn't even DEBATE illegals because the economy could well handle immigrants, even illegals. In fact we'd embrace them.

Difference between me and (most) Trumptards: I don't see Jose as the primary reason for the current problems.

 

[shady28]

I am NOT supporting H1B and H2B visa worker "imports" in the same way as I am not actually supporting offshoring and outsourcing.

Yes this is a global economy, but how it works RIGHT NOW is poised to fail...and it's ultimately OUR disadvantage.

If it weren't, we wouldn't even DEBATE illegals because the economy could well handle immigrants, even illegals. In fact we'd embrace them.

Difference between me and (most) Trumptards: I don't see Jose as the primary reason for the current problems.

OK, that sounds better. I responded the way I did because you earlier equated opposition to illegals and H1B/H2B with racism.

I think Trump sees bad trade arrangements as the core problem, but from a fundamental security standpoint does not want illegals haphazardly crossing the border.

Bernie and Trump both appeal to the same set of concerns and working / professional class voters, but with different explanations as to cause and different solutions.

 

[LegendKiller]

I am NOT supporting H1B and H2B visa worker "imports" in the same way as I am not actually supporting offshoring and outsourcing.

Yes this is a global economy, but how it works RIGHT NOW is poised to fail...and it's ultimately OUR disadvantage.

If it weren't, we wouldn't even DEBATE illegals because the economy could well handle immigrants, even illegals. In fact we'd embrace them.

Difference between me and (most) Trumptards: I don't see Jose as the primary reason for the current problems.

And where did I say they were? I thought the tariff comments from the others were idiotic also.

Keep in mind, a lot of jobs left to China not just because of prevailing internal wages but how those were externalized through and artificially low currency.

Jose and h1b abuse are the other part of the equation. Trump is the only ones addressing all 3.

 

[flexy]

No one was "forced" to leave. You're still blaming the Chinese for what is a problem caused by infinite liberties corporates have to do whatever they deem ok as long as it helps them cut costs.

I am asking whether Trump's "proposals" are not just some halfa$$ proposals which won't change anything - because this is how it looks like to me.

Obviously he cannot come up with things like severe penalties and GOD BEWARE, say more regulations - even if I am 100% convinced that is what will be required, REGULATIONS of what and what not companies can do. (This does not only affect offshoring by the way, this is broader.)

However, as a Conservative he WON'T EVER propose regulations because it would cause heart-attacks with many supporters. Because of that he'll always focus on secondary issues, rather blame Jose or Chinese currency..or propose some halfass "lower taxes"...for what is decisions made by US corporates.

 

[shady28]

...
I am asking whether Trump's "proposals" are not just some halfa$$ proposals which won't change anything - because this is how it looks like to me.

Obviously he cannot come up with things like severe penalties and GOD BEWARE, say more regulations - even if I am 100% convinced that is what will be required, REGULATIONS of what and what not companies can do. (This does not only affect offshoring by the way, this is broader.)

However, as a Conservative he WON'T EVER propose regulations because it would cause heart-attacks with many supporters. Because of that he'll always focus on secondary issues, rather blame Jose or Chinese currency..or propose some halfass "lower taxes"...for what is decisions made by US corporates.

The assumption here has to be that Trump is not an establishment Republican, in the same way Bernie is not an establishment Democrat. That means they are not beholden to the people you are talking about.

If people are wrong on that, then it's all a moot point. We'll get status quo, which is what we would get with Hillary, Bush, Rubio, and probably Cruz. That is not what people are voting for.

Bernie wants to force US companies to stop offshoring via regulation. Trump wants to make it more profitable for US companies to compete using US workers by getting us out of unfair trade deals. Different approaches. Make your choice.

 

[Vic]

No it isn't, better luck lying next time.

14th amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

 

[MongGrel]

No it isn't, better luck lying next time.

Stop looking like a n00b, Ya n00b.

 

[Vic]

Exporting jobs to get cheaper shit is a downward cycle of doom. Who will buy the cheap shit? you still don't see it. You are in the camp that everybody has to go to college and all other jobs are loser jobs.

I am not in that camp. There are great jobs out there that don't require college, particularly in the skilled trades. However, the jobs that have been exported are mostly the same ones that would have otherwise been replaced by automation.

 

[IronWing]

14th amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

If only it were that simple. If your mom had an unpaid parking ticket at the time of your birth, she was an outlaw and not "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" and therefore you are an illegal alien. No fun for you.

Besides, don't you know that the 13-17th amendments are illegal?

 

[MongGrel]

I am not in that camp. There are great jobs out there that don't require college, particularly in the skilled trades. However, the jobs that have been exported are mostly the same ones that would have otherwise been replaced by automation.

I'll just have to bite my tongue on that statement, though.

 

[Vic]

They will self deport I'd you remove the jobs and free shit.

They're already working here illegally. How much more can we "remove the jobs and free shit?" Plus, the President has zero legal authority on immigration policy. Expecting that any President could be able to wave a magic wand on something Congress has ignored for 30 years is just.. silly.

 

[Vic]

Yeah, because H1B program abuse and anchor babies is such a horrible thing to curb.


Are you an American? I ask because you really don't seem to give a fuck about this country, or its people.

I'm confident that I'm more American, and that I love America more, than you, asshole.

 

[fskimospy]

You guys realize that the actual empirical evidence for immigration suppressing wages is mixed at best, right?

 

[LegendKiller]

I am not in that camp. There are great jobs out there that don't require college, particularly in the skilled trades. However, the jobs that have been exported are mostly the same ones that would have otherwise been replaced by automation.

Some would have. Then we would have had automation maintenance, installation...etc jobs here, not there.

 

[LegendKiller]

They're already working here illegally. How much more can we "remove the jobs and free shit?" Plus, the President has zero legal authority on immigration policy. Expecting that any President could be able to wave a magic wand on something Congress has ignored for 30 years is just.. silly.

It had to start somewhere. Like...enforcing the laws we have. Imagine that!