GOP Debate #1

[Jimzz]

Yet, why aren't all these companies turning in the guys they "know" that use illegals? That's the question I'd like answered. You think they'd be chomping at the bit at a chance to eliminate some of their competition.

Because the current republican party protects companies that hire illegals.

Want to stop illegals then heavy fines against companies that hire them. After the jobs dry up so do the illegals. But of course the companies that use them don't want that so they make sure those type of laws do not go into affect.

 

[Blackjack200]

The incentives have to be removed. A wall is not required.

Issue work permits to the ones already here with a reasonable path to obtain green cards. Get them in the system, paying taxes, and under the protection of US law. Make the systemic hiring of illegals a federal crime carrying real time in a FPMITA facility and make the executives responsible (no plausible deniability).

End the drug war to stabilize mexico and remove interest in our market from less savory people who cross. Legalize and regulate across the board. Dump the money that is saved from enforcement and incarceration into drug treatment programs, mental health, counseling, long term assistance, etc.

How about direct foreign aid to Mexico and Central/South America as well? Take every dollar that goes to Israel to begin with.

Yeah, I agree with all of this, although I don't know how you stop the hiring of illegals unless you're ready to start throwing small contractors into prison, I'm not sure if I'd go that route, but maybe it's the best way...

 

[bradley]

Could we please stop pretense? The US could easily build a supremely sophisticated high-tech wall for fairly little money. I picture digital pinhole cameras, speakers, detectors, sensors and lasers all along that sucker. And open up the project to the public, allow anyone to monitor with a secure Internet connection.

Why that border wall likely won't happen in my lifetime? Republicans want slaves, Democrats want voters... and the two-party system is borked and a majority of voters (some here) still support this false paradigm.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yet, why aren't all these companies turning in the guys they "know" that use illegals? That's the question I'd like answered. You think they'd be chomping at the bit at a chance to eliminate some of their competition.

Not PC. I was having a discussion with a friend at lunch about it. Why don't contractors just say "WE ONLY HIRE LEGAL AMERICANS"? Because the libtards would jump all over them, calling them morally bankrupt. They'd probably get sued by the DoJ for discrimination against non-citizens. Their business would be shut down and they'd go bankrupt. The SJWs would clap the entire time. After all, another xenophobic "nativist" racist goes down in flames.

That's exactly what happens here. If I say "hire Americans only, give black people a shot at skilled labor" the first thing I am called is a racist, xenophobic, nativist that hates hispanics.

Why would any business owner subject themselves to that in public?

 

[LegendKiller]

How about direct foreign aid to Mexico and Central/South America as well? Take every dollar that goes to Israel to begin with.

Yeah, I agree with all of this, although I don't know how you stop the hiring of illegals unless you're ready to start throwing small contractors into prison, I'm not sure if I'd go that route, but maybe it's the best way...

Why should we direct aid to them? They need to fix their own shit.

Look at Venezuela. Should we give aid to them despite us telling them that Chavez was a crook?

Look at Argentina and how crooked they are there.

Look at Brazil and how horrible it is there.

 

[soundforbjt]

Not PC. I was having a discussion with a friend at lunch about it. Why don't contractors just say "WE ONLY HIRE LEGAL AMERICANS"? Because the libtards would jump all over them, calling them morally bankrupt. They'd probably get sued by the DoJ for discrimination against non-citizens. Their business would be shut down and they'd go bankrupt. The SJWs would clap the entire time. After all, another xenophobic "nativist" racist goes down in flames.

Not what I asked at all, why don't these guys turn in the contractors they suspect are using illegal labor? There has to be a reason why they are not doing so.

 

[LegendKiller]

Not what I asked at all, why don't these guys turn in the contractors they suspect are using illegal labor? There has to be a reason why they are not doing so.

Same issue. People would find out, they always do.

 

[bshole]

Not PC. I was having a discussion with a friend at lunch about it. Why don't contractors just say "WE ONLY HIRE LEGAL AMERICANS"? Because the libtards would jump all over them, calling them morally bankrupt.

Yea I am sure contractors would LOVE to hire $25/hr Americans instead of $10/hr illegals. They are simply too scared of the political backlash that would come from paying a livable wage to their workers. Curiously, what exactly is keeping the contractors from paying the illegals at the same rate as Americans? Odd that.....

 

[soundforbjt]

Same issue. People would find out, they always do.

Then they don't really care or it's not affecting their bottom line enough that they are willing to do anything about it. You never said what happened to the contractor you claimed you turned in, what happened?

 

[dank69]

You're assuming the job would otherwise pay minimum wage.

Trade crafts are getting slaughtered by illegals. Ask any independent what has happened to deck builders, roofers, framers, drywallers, painters who don't use illegals.

I have asked many. The are constantly underbid by companies who use illegals.

Regardless, even if you found a way to deport every illegal, Americans would not do those jobs at the same prices.

 

[BoberFett]

What difference does it make? If any of the Republican candidates get elected, the American people will be losers. Heck, if Hillary gets elected, the American people will be losers. Bernie Sanders is America's only hope at this point.

Did evil socialist Bernie Sanders win the debate on Twitter?

He had the most re-tweeted comment:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2...frSjsDv0XOO2E0J5JIJ/story.html?p1=stream_news

https://twitter.com/hashtag/DebateWithBernie?src=hash

https://twitter.com/gov/status/629687418262822913

I'd vote for Sanders over just about anyone else at this point. The Democrats won't let that happen though.

 

[K1052]

How about direct foreign aid to Mexico and Central/South America as well? Take every dollar that goes to Israel to begin with.

I don't think that's necessary and the ruling elite in those countries would almost certainly syphon most of it off for themselves. US policy (or the lack there of) has fundamentally destabilized Mexico and a significant chunk of central America. We should fix the shit that is so obviously broken first.

 

[BoberFett]

Yea, because it's political correctness that is the #1 problem in America today.

Not the economy
Not wars
Not education
Not the diminishing middle class
Not corporate welfare
Not the constant invasion of citizen's privacy
Not the climate
Not medical and health issues
Not the homeless and hungry

Nope. It's the PC movement that matters most.

Maybe one of the candidates should run on the platform of Starbucks' coffee prices. Or ensuring that toilet paper is oriented correctly.

Political correctness itself isn't the problem, but it does prevent talking about some of the problems you listed. Solving hard problems requires saying difficult things, and political correctness is all about not hurting anyone's feelings. We're getting more and more politically correct in this country, and those problems are getting worse, not better.

I agree, it's not the number one priority, and Trump is indeed a pompous douche, but I'm tired of the pandering from the likes of Hillary or any of these Republican bozos pandering to the religious right.

 

[BoberFett]

Have you not been watching? With Trump, clearly the number 1, 2, and 3 problems in this country are Mexicans and not any of the stuff you list above.

Because obviously falling wages have NOTHING to do with importing millions upon millions of low skilled laborers...

Good god, some of you people must have been horrible at doing connect-the-dots when you were children. When you were done it was just a page full of unconnected dots.

 

[Blackjack200]

Could we please stop pretense? The US could easily build a supremely sophisticated high-tech wall for fairly little money. I picture digital pinhole cameras, speakers, detectors, sensors and lasers all along that sucker. And open up the project to the public, allow anyone to monitor with a secure Internet connection.

Why that border wall likely won't happen in my lifetime? Republicans want slaves, Democrats want voters... and the two-party system is borked and a majority of voters (some here) still support this false paradigm.

Link to an expert opinion that thinks an effective wall would be trivial to build/maintain?

Why should we direct aid to them? They need to fix their own shit.

Look at Venezuela. Should we give aid to them despite us telling them that Chavez was a crook?

Look at Argentina and how crooked they are there.

Look at Brazil and how horrible it is there.

What was your answer again?

 

[BoberFett]

I just told you they come here legally (40%-50%). Then, they overstay their visa, get deemed "Illegals!" and, apparently in your mind, they're not American anymore!

Someone with a visa was never an American to begin with. They were a citizen of a foreign nation with a travel visa. That's not an American.

 

[First]

Someone with a visa was never an American to begin with. They were a citizen of a foreign nation with a travel visa. That's not an American.

Well yes, many aren't American...except when they end up living her for several decades and have children that go to public schools. At that point, it's hard to call them foreigners just because they were born in another country.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Someone with a visa was never an American to begin with. They were a citizen of a foreign nation with a travel visa. That's not an American.

These little "nuances" are obvious to some, but appear to elude some others as well....surprise, surprise.

 

[brycejones]

Yea I am sure contractors would LOVE to hire $25/hr Americans instead of $10/hr illegals. They are simply too scared of the political backlash that would come from paying a livable wage to their workers. Curiously, what exactly is keeping the contractors from paying the illegals at the same rate as Americans? Odd that.....

Then how would they pay for the custom bike and the boat? Contractors have needs to you know!

 

[JulesMaximus]

I think a lot of people are going to get weeded out from this debate. You have to come across strong, regardless of how ridiculous your statements are.

Trump is only making himself stronger so far. Jeb doesn't seem very confident on that stage. He doesn't have a commanding presence at all.

Well, there's always Neil or Marvin... we have to keep the Bush legacy going!

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Are we not talking in here about how Trump is still leading the pack after squabbling with a rich, attractive, establishment white woman that, after all the other things he's said, was supposed to be one bridge too far and scuttle his campaign?

 

[BoberFett]

Well yes, many aren't American...except when they end up living her for several decades and have children that go to public schools. At that point, it's hard to call them foreigners just because they were born in another country.

OK, so then they're an illegal alien. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand. If someone was not naturalized using the means to become a legal US citizen, they're not a citizen. Stop trying to redefine the word "is".

 

[soundforbjt]

My guess at this time is Fiorina as VP, no matter who gets the Top nod (Jeb! my guess).
Carly always looks angry or furious (Female Dick Cheney), they'll use her as an attack dog on Clinton like they did with Palin to Obama.

Rubio has the whole "junior senator" argument that repubs use against Obama so it still remains as true for him as well...right? R or D shouldn't matter. That puts Cruz, Paul out as well for President.

 

[chucky2]

I'd almost pay to guarantee a Billary vs. Trump matchup. God the entertainment would/will be awesome...

 

[First]

OK, so then they're an illegal alien. I'm not sure why that's so difficult to understand. If someone was not naturalized using the means to become a legal US citizen, they're not a citizen. Stop trying to redefine the word "is".

No I didn't call them a citizen. Being American and being a citizen are different things. Mexicans born in Mexico aren't always Mexicans if they come here as children and live here for decades while having their own children, regardless of their status on paper. If we were to define "American" based solely on legal status, we'd define several founding fathers as aliens.