GOP Debate #1

[Doc Savage Fan]

No I didn't call them a citizen. Being American and being a citizen are different things. Mexicans born in Mexico aren't always Mexicans if they come here as children and live here for decades while having their own children, regardless of their status on paper. If we were to define "American" based solely on legal status, we'd define several founding fathers as aliens.

 

[First]

Herp derp.

 

[BoberFett]

No I didn't call them a citizen. Being American and being a citizen are different things. Mexicans born in Mexico aren't always Mexicans if they come here as children and live here for decades while having their own children, regardless of their status on paper. If we were to define "American" based solely on legal status, we'd define several founding fathers as aliens.

Jesus Hume Christ. According to Democrats, being an American is no longer defined by citizenship.

Well shit, I'm the President of the United States of America. Sure, I've never been elected, but as Democrats love to remind us being elected is not required to be President. So as long as I identify as the President, then I am.

Time to start issuin' me some Executive Orders!

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Herp derp.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[First]

Jesus Hume Christ. According to Democrats, being an American is no longer defined by citizenship.

Well shit, I'm the President of the United States of America. Sure, I've never been elected, but as Democrats love to remind us being elected is not required to be President. So as long as I identify as the President, then I am.

Time to start issuin' me some Executive Orders!

K.

My thoughts

That's a stretch.

 

[chucky2]

Haha now Mexicans kept in the country illegally by their parents/guardians, who assume responsibility of course for doing that to them, magically morph into Americans. WTF is it with Libs and redefining things? Is, marriage, now illegals. Is it some kind of 'stick it to The Man' fetish?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That's a stretch.

You're really clever it seems....I'm quite impressed!

 

[First]

WTF is it with Libs and redefining things?

It's weird how some people choose to think hard about words, huh? Did you hurt yourself?

 

[chucky2]

Lulz...derp a derp word boy haha

 

[Moonbeam]

You CBD'ives can sure make some powerful arguments.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You CBD'ives can sure make some powerful arguments.

First epitomizes a mentally that truly amazes me. Not much to say other than to express incredulity. Sorry to disappoint you...but I'm not going to spend my time picking apart such twisted, convoluted and nonsensical framing of a complex issue. He lives in a world that I can't begin to understand.

 

[brycejones]

First epitomizes a mentally that truly amazes me. Not much to say other than to express incredulity. Sorry to disappoint you...but I'm not going to spend my time picking apart such twisted, convoluted and nonsensical framing of a complex issue. He lives in a world that I can't begin to understand.

I certainly don't fully agree with First, but I wish more conservatives in this forum would remember its a complex issue and stop just spouting "build a wall and ship'em home" as if the problem was that easy to solve. BTW I'm not saying you've said those things, just making a point.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I certainly don't fully agree with First, but I wish more conservatives in this forum would remember its a complex issue and stop just spouting "build a wall and ship'em home" as if the problem was that easy to solve. BTW I'm not saying you've said those things, just making a point.

Thank you for acknowledging that I never said such a thing...because I didn't.

 

[Bitek]

I certainly don't fully agree with First, but I wish more conservatives in this forum would remember its a complex issue and stop just spouting "build a wall and ship'em home" as if the problem was that easy to solve. BTW I'm not saying you've said those things, just making a point.

Please, that's not what they are saying. Stop the distortions.

They said a wall with a giant door in it, paid for by Mexico. Probably built by Mexicans..

See, they can be complicated.

 

[werepossum]

Not what I asked at all, why don't these guys turn in the contractors they suspect are using illegal labor? There has to be a reason why they are not doing so.

Can't, construction is too interconnected. If a company turns in a competitor for using illegals, then he will be black-balled by the G.C.s also using illegals. And since the federal government's position is that illegals are to be rewarded, he can also look forward to being investigated by the IRS, OSHA, the EPA, and various other alphabets until his racist ass folds.

Regardless, even if you found a way to deport every illegal, Americans would not do those jobs at the same prices.

That is our point, that illegals are depressing wages for everyone in fields that illegals can do. Why would you consider wages acceptable to a dirt poor Guatemalan farmer to be the proper level? I would say that the pay agreeable to an American employer and an American employee is the proper level for an American job.

 

[cKGunslinger]

If a company turns in a competitor for using illegals, then he will be black-balled by the G.C.s also using illegals. And since the federal government's position is that illegals are to be rewarded, he can also look forward to being investigated by the IRS, OSHA, the EPA, and various other alphabets until his racist ass folds.

Is this something you truly believe?

 

[werepossum]

Is this something you truly believe?

Yes. To which part do you take exception?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Yes. To which part do you take exception?

That you believe if Company A reports Company B for being suspected of using illegal/undocumented immigrant workers, Company A will be intentionally hounded-to-ruination by a variety of government agencies, specifically due to the perceived racism of his allegations.

Did I misread that?

 

[bradley]

We have the most advanced military the world has ever known, but yet we can't build a sophisticated surveillance border wall. Yeah it has nothing to do with politics. Tell me another story grandpa.

 

[werepossum]

That you believe if Company A reports Company B for being suspected of using illegal/undocumented immigrant workers, Company A will be intentionally hounded-to-ruination by a variety of government agencies, specifically due to the perceived racism of his allegations.

Did I misread that?

Nope. Talk to some construction company owners. Ask them what happens if they report someone using illegal labor.

 

[MrPickins]

Could we please stop pretense? The US could easily build a supremely sophisticated high-tech wall for fairly little money. I picture digital pinhole cameras, speakers, detectors, sensors and lasers all along that sucker. And open up the project to the public, allow anyone to monitor with a secure Internet connection.

What kind of fantasy world are you living in? That would be extremely expensive.

 

[MrPickins]

Nope. Talk to some construction company owners. Ask them what happens if they report someone using illegal labor.

How hard is it to keep the tip anonymous?

 

[Bitek]

Can't, construction is too interconnected. If a company turns in a competitor for using illegals, then he will be black-balled by the G.C.s also using illegals. And since the federal government's position is that illegals are to be rewarded, he can also look forward to being investigated by the IRS, OSHA, the EPA, and various other alphabets until his racist ass folds.


That is our point, that illegals are depressing wages for everyone in fields that illegals can do. Why would you consider wages acceptable to a dirt poor Guatemalan farmer to be the proper level? I would say that the pay agreeable to an American employer and an American employee is the proper level for an American job.

I think you are overstating the wage depression for a contract work. It's not like these guys with accept 50 cents an hour. This is still skilled work and the wages are still relatively high. One of the contractors largest challenges is still finding capable people. It's not like labor markets are really slack and highly vulnerable to wage deflation. Yeah they might get a bit of a break on wages for undocumented workers, but they also have to guarantee their work and their livelihood depends on the quality of it. It doesn't always pay to go cheap.

What another issue is, is contracting companies not using properly licensed workers, such as unlicensed plumbers to do jobs when licensing is required. This happens regardless of the nationality of the worker.

The Landscaping field might be more vulnerable to this, but it's also really hard work and there's not that many people signing up to do it. Besides customers will only still pay so much, so prices have to be competitive regardless. Even if you got rid of all of them, costs can only rise so much before it became too expensive for clientele.

I know this from many immediate family members and close friends in these fields owning these businesses.

 

[LegendKiller]

What kind of fantasy world are you living in? That would be extremely expensive.

Compared to what? The economic (jobs) and fiscal (welfare, medicaid, birthing, other social services), and police (criminals, gangs, drug mules), that a rapid, unfettered, and illegal mass of immigration brings?

You guys are sad. You just look at one cost and say "Whelp, shit, might as well just leave the border open, it might cost $50bn to install, nevermind the $200bn in costs we incur *EVERY YEAR* (just made that number up, but you get the point)"

 

[LegendKiller]

I think you are overstating the wage depression for a contract work. It's not like these guys with accept 50 cents an hour. This is still skilled work and the wages are still relatively high. One of the contractors largest challenges is still finding capable people. It's not like labor markets are really slack and highly vulnerable to wage deflation. Yeah they might get a bit of a break on wages for undocumented workers, but they also have to guarantee their work and their livelihood depends on the quality of it. It doesn't always pay to go cheap.

What another issue is, is contracting companies not using properly licensed workers, such as unlicensed plumbers to do jobs when licensing is required. This happens regardless of the nationality of the worker.

The Landscaping field might be more vulnerable to this, but it's also really hard work and there's not that many people signing up to do it. Besides customers will only still pay so much, so prices have to be competitive regardless. Even if you got rid of all of them, costs can only rise so much before it became too expensive for clientele.

I know this from many immediate family members and close friends in these fields owning these businesses.

There are plenty of people who will work those businesses.