GOP ACA Replacement Imminent....Predictions

[Sea Ray]

because distraction. because...he doesn't really have an argument supporting his previous point now, so semantics.

This was addressed below by another contributor. I hope you learn from it

 

[IronWing]

This was addressed below by another contributor. I hope you learn from it

Right, it was a diversion. So in the interest of getting back on topic, you still haven't offered any reason we can't pay for single payer healthcare by taxing the people who have the money (the rich).

 

[brycejones]

Right, it was a diversion. So in the interest of getting back on topic, you still haven't offered any reason we can't pay for single payer healthcare by taxing the people who have the money (the rich).

Because that makes health care a goody, and no one is allowed to have goodies.

 

[Sea Ray]

Right, it was a diversion. So in the interest of getting back on topic, you still haven't offered any reason we can't pay for single payer healthcare by taxing the people who have the money (the rich).

I haven't seen a proposal. What are we talking about here? Who gets their taxes raised and by how much? That's why I haven't offered any reason. My hunch is that healthcare is so expensive that it'll have to be paid for by most of us; not just the rich.

 

[Sea Ray]

Because that makes health care a goody, and no one is allowed to have goodies.

There are plenty of goodies in gov't today and that's not going to change. Can't put that toothpaste back in the tube

 

[SMOGZINN]

Forget the poor. The bottom fifty percent of tax payers pay almost nothing in income taxes. In fact 45 percent of households pay zero

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24

So I disagree that the poor are paying a lot of their income in taxes.

I get your side in all of this and the fact is your side has won. The poor pay almost nothing and the rich are carrying the load. Hoist your trophy. You won this one and I'm fine with that.

Sure if we cherry pick one specific tax. The poor still pay way more in taxes in general.

From your link:

When it comes to all federal taxes — individual income, payroll, excise, corporate income and estate taxes — the distributions of who pays what is more spread out. This is partially because nearly everyone pays excise taxes, which includes taxes on gasoline, alcohol and cigarettes.

 

[Sea Ray]

Sure if we cherry pick one specific tax. The poor still pay way more in taxes in general.

From your link:

When it comes to all federal taxes — individual income, payroll, excise, corporate income and estate taxes — the distributions of who pays what is more spread out. This is partially because nearly everyone pays excise taxes, which includes taxes on gasoline, alcohol and cigarettes.

OK fine. The article says "rich people pay 69% of federal taxes in America. " So what's the problem? In what world are you saying that the poor pay more in taxes? Did you miss where it said the poor (bottom 20%) pay 0.8% of all federal taxes?

 

[UNCjigga]

McConnell has the votes, get ready for a shitshow of a bill that no one has seen, no one has scored, and will be updated live from the floor with every pork barrel amendment imaginable.

 

[theeedude]

Is John McCain really taking a break from his government funded health care to fly to Washington to vote to take away other people's government funded healthcare?

 

[Stokely]

Rather than look at how much % the super-wealthy pay...makes more sense to look at wealth inequality. By studies I've seen, the gap continues to widen. Wealth is concentrating more and more at the top. So obviously something in the system is fair (and more than fair) to the super wealthy...or are they just smarter and better at life than the rest of us? Regardless, is a system where the poor get poorer and the rich richer (and the middle class goes away) a sustainable one? Trickle-down believers would say "yes"...many others say "no". Where does this end up, if you continue to draw that graph out, especially considering ever-larger numbers of us won't have jobs due to automation (not fucking illegals, or "regulations" or any other bullshit getting peddled...)? Not in a good place I think.

 

[fskimospy]

Rather than look at how much % the super-wealthy pay...makes more sense to look at wealth inequality. By studies I've seen, the gap continues to widen. Wealth is concentrating more and more at the top. So obviously something in the system is fair (and more than fair) to the super wealthy...or are they just smarter and better at life than the rest of us? Regardless, is a system where the poor get poorer and the rich richer (and the middle class goes away) a sustainable one? Trickle-down believers would say "yes"...many others say "no". Where does this end up, if you continue to draw that graph out, especially considering ever-larger numbers of us won't have jobs due to automation (not fucking illegals, or "regulations" or any other bullshit getting peddled...)? Not in a good place I think.

We should absolutely look at what percentage the rich pay. It turns out that they only pay a slightly larger percentage of their income than other groups.

People who claim the rich pay a significantly higher percentage of their income in taxes in the US have to use deliberately misleading numbers to do so. This is why they always focus on specific taxes by themselves and not total tax burden as a percentage of income.

 

[dainthomas]

Is John McCain really taking a break from his government funded health care to fly to Washington to vote to take away other people's government funded healthcare?

You'd think that someone who could be dead in a year would stop caring what his masters tell him to do and start doing what's right for the country.

 

[brycejones]

We should absolutely look at what percentage the rich pay. It turns out that they only pay a slightly larger percentage of their income than other groups.

People who claim the rich pay a significantly higher percentage of their income in taxes in the US have to use deliberately misleading numbers to do so. This is why they always focus on specific taxes by themselves and not total tax burden as a percentage of income.

See Sea Ray

 

[SMOGZINN]

OK fine. The article says "rich people pay 69% of federal taxes in America. " So what's the problem? In what world are you saying that the poor pay more in taxes? Did you miss where it said the poor (bottom 20%) pay 0.8% of all federal taxes?

I'm not really sure what either of us are arguing with this. I think we are mostly cross talking, defending our little hills against the other no matter what the position is.

The heart of my argument is that the middle class and poor can not handle much more in taxes. They are already spending all their money and getting taxed on all of it, and if that turns out to be a small percent of the national tax base it is because they make up a equally small portion of the national economy. The top percent of earners on the other hand can handle more taxes because they are using, and paying taxes on, a significantly smaller portion of their total wealth.

I don't really care who pays what in taxes. I never shed tears for the hardships of someone with their own private jet. I only care about who can pay what in taxes.

 

[fskimospy]

See Sea Ray

I'm pretty sure he has me on ignore, haha.

What I always wonder about this is if conservatives genuinely believe the rich pay a way higher percentage of their income in taxes than other people do or if they are just being dishonest and cynical. I tend towards the second one because of how specific they are in calling out income taxes only and demanding we ignore everything else.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Is John McCain really taking a break from his government funded health care to fly to Washington to vote to take away other people's government funded healthcare?

McCain has been urging the GOP to move to a bipartisan health care bill. He's one of the few who seem to be taking a sane approach to the process.

 

[theeedude]

McCain has been urging the GOP to move to a bipartisan health care bill. He's one of the few who seem to be taking a sane approach to the process.

So why is he flying to Washington to vote for Trumpcare? It's another one of his fake maverick moments.

 

[Meghan54]

Over the past three decades, the share of household wealth owned by the top 0.1% has increased from 7% to 22%. (Household wealth is different than income, btw, Sea Ray.)

...the top 0.1% of families now own roughly the same share of wealth as the bottom 90%.

...the share of total US wealth owned by the bottom 90% of families fell from a peak of 36% in the mid-1980s, to 23% in 2012 - just one percentage point above the top 0.1%.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...quality-top-01-worth-as-much-as-the-bottom-90

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So why is he flying to Washington to vote for Trumpcare? It's another one of his fake maverick moments.

The purpose of the vote today is to bring the original house Bill up for debate. He's going because he sees it as his job and duty to participate in the process.

 

[K1052]

The purpose of the vote today is to bring the original house Bill up for debate. He's going because he sees it as his job and duty to participate in the process.

Or McConnell moved on the defense bill like he wanted and is providing at least optics for the healthcare vote in return.

 

[UNCjigga]

The purpose of the vote today is to bring the original house Bill up for debate. He's going because he sees it as his job and duty to participate in the process.

McCain is the one Senator I would excuse for a "Yea" vote--he had a friggin brain tumor and who knows what cocktail of medications and pain killers he's currently on. He had trouble distinguishing between Trump and Clinton during one Senate hearing earlier this year, so we know his brain wasn't working so well. He should be an easy +1 for McConnell to get in order to move forward. It's all the others who have no excuse for voting "yea" when they have no idea where it's leading...

 

[theeedude]

You would excuse the one senator sucking up hundreds of thousands of dollars of government funded health care for voting to deny basic health care to others where it can do much more good than his situation? If he is incapacitated, he should resign.

 

[fskimospy]

Apparently the goal is to get a motion to proceed passed then fail to pass a bunch of different health bills, followed by an extremely narrow bill that's only purpose is to get to a conference committee with the House, at which point they can try and work on some final bill.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Exactly. This is all procedural to get to an end goal. Maybe, just maybe, that will include some democrat input. Doubt it but I can hope.

 

[K1052]

I wonder if there will be a Rose Garden party again for the Senate punting. How can the House and the Senate can come to a deal that will pass both houses while the Senate can't reach 50 for any plan and the House only passed because they were promised the Senate would save them from the fallout. Hardcore conservatives in both chambers will sink any actual compromise.

Jesus.