GOP ACA Replacement Imminent....Predictions

[Jhhnn]

A lot of words but very short on specifics. We're discussing methods of funding single payer. What's your solution?

We've discussed a sales tax and a payroll tax. Both will hit the poor hard so there's been a lot of resistance. The answer I keep getting is tax the rich. That tells me that folks want another entitlement but don't want to pay for it.

The ownership class has made the same sort of argument forever- about Unions, for example. "The little people want more from me for doing the same."

 

[zinfamous]

In most states gas and food are not taxed. I agree those things should not be taxed further.

wat?

 

[K1052]

I wonder if that would include a proposal to summon Cuthulu from R'lyeh to simply eat the sick and elderly.

 

[SMOGZINN]

None do. What's your point? Mine is that they spend money like I can't imagine. Literally they're buying $500K boats (yachts)

Yes, but the rich are still spending a very small percentage of their money compared to the amount they make while the middle class are spending most (if not more then) of their income, and getting taxed on all of it. So, the result is that the rich are getting richer while avoiding paying taxes on most of it, while the middle class and poor are getting poorer while having to hand over a significant portion of it in taxes.

If you look at it in terms of are we capturing taxable money it is only true for the poor and middle class, the upper class gets taxed on a much smaller portion of their total worth. Since the rich do control most of the wealth in the US that means we are missing the majority of the taxable money.

 

[IronWing]

I wonder if that would include a proposal to summon Cthulhu from R'lyeh to simply eat the sick and elderly.

If Cthulhu delivers on tax cuts for the Reps' billionaire masters, then Cthulhu is a welcome addition to the plan.

Note for future use: Cthulhu is in Chrome's spell-check dictionary.

 

[fskimospy]

I wonder if that would include a proposal to summon Cuthulu from R'lyeh to simply eat the sick and elderly.

Remember how conservatives used to so frequently misquote Nancy Pelosi as saying 'we have to pass it to find out what's in it'? He's not even saying that, he's saying 'I don't care what's in it, I'll vote for whatever they want.' It's funny and sad how the GOP effort to repeal the ACA has involved every underhanded tactic they falsely accused the Democrats of using to pass the ACA.

Total immorality and cynicism.

 

[Sea Ray]

wat?

The discussion is about a sales tax.

 

[fskimospy]

The discussion is about a sales tax.

Sales of gasoline are taxed in literally every state. It's called a federal gas tax.

 

[Sea Ray]

Yes, but the rich are still spending a very small percentage of their money compared to the amount they make while the middle class are spending most (if not more then) of their income, and getting taxed on all of it. So, the result is that the rich are getting richer while avoiding paying taxes on most of it, while the middle class and poor are getting poorer while having to hand over a significant portion of it in taxes.

If you look at it in terms of are we capturing taxable money it is only true for the poor and middle class, the upper class gets taxed on a much smaller portion of their total worth. Since the rich do control most of the wealth in the US that means we are missing the majority of the taxable money.

Forget the poor. The bottom fifty percent of tax payers pay almost nothing in income taxes. In fact 45 percent of households pay zero

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24

So I disagree that the poor are paying a lot of their income in taxes.

I get your side in all of this and the fact is your side has won. The poor pay almost nothing and the rich are carrying the load. Hoist your trophy. You won this one and I'm fine with that.

 

[IronWing]

Sales of gasoline are taxed in literally every state. It's called a federal gas tax.

And every state taxes gasoline as well.

http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Statistics/Gasoline-Tax-Map.pdf

Note the map above shows combined tax rates. The federal tax is 18.4 cents/gal.

Edit:
Here's a map/chart with just the state gasoline taxes.

 

[Sea Ray]

Absolutely the states tax the hell out of gas but it's not a sales tax.

 

[K1052]

The prevailing political theory is now that the Senate will probably vote for the MTP then hold a series of votes on the various proposals that aren't going to pass. Eventually they'll pass a "skinny repeal" which eliminates the mandates and medical device tax then try to work out a deal with the house

I'm not sure how you do that since eliminating most of what the House conservatives want isn't going to make them happy.

Also what they want to do may not even be allowed under Senate rules for reconciliation.

This is a tire dump fire.

 

[zinfamous]

The discussion is about a sales tax.

you claimed gas isn't taxed in most states, which is demonstrably false.

 

[IronWing]

Absolutely the states tax the hell out of gas but it's not a sales tax.

It used to be held as scientific dogma that one couldn't split an RCH. Congratulations.

 

[Sea Ray]

you claimed gas isn't taxed in most states, which is demonstrably false.

I was referring to a sales tax. I thought that was apparent. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, but the rich are still spending a very small percentage of their money compared to the amount they make while the middle class are spending most (if not more then) of their income, and getting taxed on all of it. So, the result is that the rich are getting richer while avoiding paying taxes on most of it, while the middle class and poor are getting poorer while having to hand over a significant portion of it in taxes.

If you look at it in terms of are we capturing taxable money it is only true for the poor and middle class, the upper class gets taxed on a much smaller portion of their total worth. Since the rich do control most of the wealth in the US that means we are missing the majority of the taxable money.

It's really quite simple to understand this concept, and it baffles me time and time again that the typical conservative voter is just too stupid to get it...especially when the same typical conservative voter is one of the ones being thusly screwed by their illogical belief that the rich have the greatest burden of all when it comes to taxes.

Reagan derangement syndrome seems to cross generations and is terribly difficult to kill. I think it's easier to kill toenail fungus than this irrational, self-destructive worship of supply-side economics.

 

[Thump553]

Can someone how knows more about Senate rules and procedure please explain how McConnell can schedule a vote but not announce what it is for? That's pretty bizarre parliamentary procedure, especially for what is supposed to be the preeminent deliberative body in the world.

 

[zinfamous]

I was referring to a sales tax. I thought that was apparent. I apologize for the confusion.

Oh, because you don't see it explicitly on your receipt, it is therefore not a state-imposed tax on the purchase of a specific commodity?

your people are truly gaslighted to no end.

 

[Engineer]

Absolutely the states tax the hell out of gas but it's not a sales tax.

Why is it not a sales tax? Because it's item specific?

Edit: Answered below.

 

[zinfamous]

Why is it not a sales tax? Because it's item specific?

because distraction. because...he doesn't really have an argument supporting his previous point now, so semantics.

 

[K1052]

Can someone how knows more about Senate rules and procedure please explain how McConnell can schedule a vote but not announce what it is for? That's pretty bizarre parliamentary procedure, especially for what is supposed to be the preeminent deliberative body in the world.

It's for healthcare, duh. lol

This is the guy who stole a Supreme Court seat from a sitting president.

 

[fskimospy]

Why is it not a sales tax? Because it's item specific?

It's technically an excise tax because it's levied at the point of manufacture not at the point of sale. That's why it's X cents per gallon, not X% of the bill.

In a practical sense this distinction is meaningless though as everywhere in the country you pay that tax when you purchase gasoline.

 

[Paratus]

Oh, because you don't see it explicitly on your receipt, it is therefore not a state-imposed tax on the purchase of a specific commodity?

your people are truly gaslighted to no end.

Why is it not a sales tax? Because it's item specific?

Gas doesn't have a sales tax because the gas tax is only (edit: passed on) at the sale of gas.

The working poor don't pay income tax because payroll taxes are only taxed on income.

Following this "logic" SeaRay has access to all the healthcare in the country if he so chooses.

 

[Engineer]

It's technically an excise tax because it's levied at the point of manufacture not at the point of sale. That's why it's X cents per gallon, not X% of the bill.

In a practical sense this distinction is meaningless though as everywhere in the country you pay that tax when you purchase gasoline.

Thanks for the explanation. I just assumed it was assessed at the point of sale and not the point of manufacture and hadn't thought about it being a fixed amount instead of a percentage.

 

[Sea Ray]

Oh, because you don't see it explicitly on your receipt, it is therefore not a state-imposed tax on the purchase of a specific commodity?

your people are truly gaslighted to no end.

I see you're not here in engage in any kind of discussion. You're just here to play the gotcha game. I thought it was apparent that the subject manner was sales taxes and I even addressed that specifically right after post when I mentioned that MI does apply their sales tax to gas. Too bad you didn't get that but it doesn't surprise me