Google may shut down operations in China

[Sacrilege]

Fuck China.

You know what the response in China is?

The recession continues in the US, and once Google.cn is censored by the Chinese government, there can now be more search engine market share for Chinese firms. Where the economy and government are skipping along as usual.

In the end this may amount to just posturing for Western bleeding hearts.

 

[Vic]

You know what the response in China is?

The recession continues in the US, and once Google.cn is censored by the Chinese government, there can now be more search engine market share for Chinese firms. Where the economy and government are skipping along as usual.

In the end this may amount to just posturing for Western bleeding hearts.

Excuse me???

 

[bobsmith1492]

The US should stage a massive attack to bring down the Great Firewall of China, since they've fired the first volleys of the cyber war. Once China's citizens see the light, perhaps they'll change their government from the inside.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You know what the response in China is?

The recession continues in the US, and once Google.cn is censored by the Chinese government, there can now be more search engine market share for Chinese firms. Where the economy and government are skipping along as usual.

In the end this may amount to just posturing for Western bleeding hearts.

You really think the Chinese economy is doing well?

It's not.

Fuck China.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The US should stage a massive attack to bring down the Great Firewall of China, since they've fired the first volleys of the cyber war. Once China's citizens see the light, perhaps they'll change their government from the inside.

If one wanted to do this the FLOSS community would be a better bet.

On some random day, say 15'th of april or something.

 

[Sacrilege]

You really think the Chinese economy is doing well?

It's not.

Fuck China.

It's doing better than the US economy, under the command of that flea-ridden "Messiah"

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

It's doing better than the US economy, under the command of that flee-ridden "Messiah"

Oh look, you got an insult against the US and it's population in there, congrats!

You do realise that me, as a Brit will see that as an insult against the US and the population because they elected him, right?

Oh, you're American AND conservative, well sorry, i should have known better.

Perhaps Mao would be a good president for you?

 

[Sacrilege]

Oh look, you got an insult against the US and it's population in there, congrats!

You do realise that me, as a Brit will see that as an insult against the US and the population because they elected him, right?

Oh, you're American AND conservative, well sorry, i should have known better.

Perhaps Mao would be a good president for you?

The fact of the matter is, China is on the rise, and the US appears to be in decline. There's no other way to spin it.

I know you are British, but in all honesty, Britain already did its decline, and is now in a kind of stagnant situation. Better there than falling like the US.

Western companies went to China, eager to do business under silly Western rules of property rights and civil rights. The Chinese completely ignored these silly rules, and have handsomely benefited. The Chinese required all Western companies to fall into traps; companies would have to pair up with PRC gov't or military affiliated or owned Chinese "partners" with 100% tech transfer on all technologies deployed in China, etc. How ridiculous does that sound???

In short, the West hoped to profit handsomely in China, and while that may have happened/may be happening for some companies, the general trend is blatant stealing of IP and technologies, followed by squeezing out the Westerners. And patriotic Chinese consumers are eager to support their ascendant domestic brands, and their government's authoritarian ways in the name of stability.

 

[rchiu]

You know what the response in China is?

The recession continues in the US, and once Google.cn is censored by the Chinese government, there can now be more search engine market share for Chinese firms. Where the economy and government are skipping along as usual.

In the end this may amount to just posturing for Western bleeding hearts.

Yeah of course this is just posturing for Western bleeding hearts. We all know Chinese and Chinese communist sympathizers loved to get fvck in the @ss by the CCP as long as the economic numbers looks good and CCP satisfy their national pride with big guns and big parades.

Never mind that CCP is the most corrupt government stealing people's money to have 3, 4 and more mistress and offshore accounts left and right. Nevermind that certain groups' voices are silenced and never heard from for the "greater good" (usually translates to CCP good). Nevermind that CCP as a government doesn't respect IP, fair trade or environmental issues.

What Google did is only for the rest of us who actually care about some rights, justice and fairness.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The fact of the matter is, China is on the rise, and the US appears to be in decline. There's no other way to spin it.

See, you're wront there, China isn't on the fucking RISE (on the RICE maybe).

They are experiencing a downturn as well as the rest of the world and when it turns upwards other nations will surpass them because then they won't have the ability to use our downturn.

China is a totalitarian state, a dictatorship where you can be hung if you disrespect your supervisor or deny him sex with your pre teen daughter, its a shithole of a nation where those who have own everything including the peoples rights.

It's not comparable to anything western and when this downturn ends it will still be a sheithole while we will pick them for everything they are worth, as we do every fucking time.

 

[ohnoes]

See, you're wront there, China isn't on the fucking RISE (on the RICE maybe).

They are experiencing a downturn as well as the rest of the world and when it turns upwards other nations will surpass them because then they won't have the ability to use our downturn.

China is a totalitarian state, a dictatorship where you can be hung if you disrespect your supervisor or deny him sex with your pre teen daughter, its a shithole of a nation where those who have own everything including the peoples rights.

It's not comparable to anything western and when this downturn ends it will still be a sheithole while we will pick them for everything they are worth, as we do every fucking time.

FYI, China has a capitalistic economy. Their totalitarian policies in other areas doesn't negate or slow down their economic growth. The hope is that eventually the two merge and they realize that a capitalistic economy also requires a democracy. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet.

And btw, you're not picking anything from China. You're "picking clean" the poor, while the party members make out like bandits in their corrupt business arrangements. So... congrats?

 

[frostedflakes]

Again this has nothing to do with Google giving a big FU to China. It has everything to do with Google not being able to get a stranglehold in China like they have in the Western world. That's it. It's not profitable for them to be there so they're leaving. There are no morals in business.

From what I've read, Google makes between $200-300 million per year in the Chinese market. Relatively small compared to western markets, but they're certainly not losing money. And the number of Chinese connected to the net is increasing rapidly, they recently surpassed the US in this metric. Google's market share in China is around 15% IIRC (Baidu is about 60%). Even if Google could only get 15% of the Chinese market, that's still a significant number of people (tens of millions, and increasing every day). But like others have mentioned, I think their market share has been declining pretty steadily over the years, and the trend would probably continue.

FYI, China has a capitalistic economy. Their totalitarian policies in other areas doesn't negate or slow down their economic growth. The hope is that eventually the two merge and they realize that a capitalistic economy also requires a democracy. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet.

And btw, you're not picking anything from China. You're "picking clean" the poor, while the party members make out like bandits in their corrupt business arrangements. So... congrats?

It's inevitable, but is still decades away IMO. Once living conditions for the Chinese improve enough, I'm sure things will change. Until then, though, most of the population is more worried about making enough money not to starve than creating a democratic government.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Let's see...

Google is a business, and they were an also ran in China

Google just threw their China partners and employees under a bus

Google just slammed the door by making a public statement about their concerns, the Chinese are publicly challenged and shamed, it's not about negotiation at this point, it's a done deal, they're out of China now because of their stance, and corporate face saving in view of the lame ass phone launch and support problems.

If Google had really intended to do no evil, they wouldn't have been filtering it's results or agreed to the Chinese government's terms in the first place.

I'm just not seeing Google as a benevolent geek god any longer, it was cool at first, now the bean counters have taken over.

 

[MotF Bane]

Let's see...

Google is a business, and they were an also ran in China

Google just threw their China partners and employees under a bus

Google just slammed the door by making a public statement about their concerns, the Chinese are publicly challenged and shamed, it's not about negotiation at this point, it's a done deal, they're out of China now because of their stance, and corporate face saving in view of the lame ass phone launch and support problems.

If Google had really intended to do no evil, they wouldn't have been filtering it's results or agreed to the Chinese government's terms in the first place.

I'm just not seeing Google as a benevolent geek god any longer, it was cool at first, now the bean counters have taken over.

aka went public.

 

[ohnoes]

It's inevitable, but is still decades away IMO. Once living conditions for the Chinese improve enough, I'm sure things will change. Until then, though, most of the population is more worried about making enough money not to starve than creating a democratic government.

Yea, my sense for whenever I visit the country is that everyone is out to make $, and while they don't like the censorship & the communist party, they're content with carving out their own little consumerist life. I also don't really see what the impetus for change will be. Their freedom in economy is enough, and I'm not sure what will cause that freedom to spread to human rights/speech/etc.

 

[bfdd]

From what I've read, Google makes between $200-300 million per year in the Chinese market. Relatively small compared to western markets, but they're certainly not losing money. And the number of Chinese connected to the net is increasing rapidly, they recently surpassed the US in this metric. Google's market share in China is around 15% IIRC (Baidu is about 60%). Even if Google could only get 15% of the Chinese market, that's still a significant number of people (tens of millions, and increasing every day). But like others have mentioned, I think their market share has been declining pretty steadily over the years, and the trend would probably continue.


It's inevitable, but is still decades away IMO. Once living conditions for the Chinese improve enough, I'm sure things will change. Until then, though, most of the population is more worried about making enough money not to starve than creating a democratic government.

Actually Baidu is well above 70% of the market share now. Also, how many business men from China do you know? To do business in China you have to team up with Chinese companies. Google did that with Baidu... except Baidu is taking all of Googles market share and destroying them in the internet portal market. Google has nothing to offer to the Chinese consumer because they have nothing to offer to the Chinese consumer, they go to Baidu which offers far more than Google does.

Google is not saying all this crap because they have morals, they are saying it because staying in China isn't really doing anything for them and for them to pull out of China they need something like this to make it look good. If they were just pulling out of China saying "nope we can't make it there sorry" it would look incredibly bad for Google. Even though that's the real reason.

 

[ohnoes]

Lol, i just realized that google.cn also has a mp3 search similar to sogou/baidu, except they block stream/downloading of songs outside of China. Kinda amusing.

 

[Kev]

Good. F China

 

[bfdd]

Why all the China hate?

 

[senseamp]

Google is right to exit China. China would never let a foreign company dominate domestic search and internet market. The PR and employee morale costs of cooperating with Chinese authorities, and the risks to its intellectual property of operating in China, are not worth being a second tier player that it would be relegated to.
Imagine a dissident in China getting executed based on information disclosed by Google China, how do you think that would play in the free world? It's better to stop sinking money into that hole instead of having to face a choice of selling out all your principles or closing down business later after a lot more money has been sunk into it.

 

[Zebo]

Stopped using Google a long time and switched to BING because of stuff like China policy, Youtube filtering apolitical stuff, and this latest round of PC ness

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/google-islam-censorship/

Plus you gotta admit is has a cooler name BING BING BING BING BING BING BING BING BING BING BING BING BING !!!!! Like hitting jackpot at casino... What's that called a onomatopoeia?

 

[woolfe9999]

Good for Google. Many US companies did what's in the "best interest" of their stockholders by selling to genocidal dictatorships. It might be in the best interest of a business to sell Bin Laden high tech terror. No thanks.

While it's been a while that China has killed some tens of millions, they are still oppressive, and will imprison people for political or religious reasons. You don't like Obama, Pelosi or Reid? You'd be begging for a warm hug from Barney Frank if you were at the tender mercies of China.

I have to give Google a big thumbs up for this.

Totally agree. This cyber attack targeted the gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activitists. So the Chinese government is hacking Google servers to obtain information about political dissidents.

Right now the only way to exercise any influence to curb the bad behavior of this government is by hitting them at the bottom line. Big props to Google for this.

- wolf

 

[deputc26]

Again this has nothing to do with Google giving a big FU to China. It has everything to do with Google not being able to get a stranglehold in China like they have in the Western world. That's it. It's not profitable for them to be there so they're leaving.

Extremely wrong, your personal views are tainting your analysis of this issue. Google does not require a stranglehold to be massively profitable, furthermore Google has 43% percent market share which is a massive increase in just the last 6 months.

There are no morals in business.

Businesses are run by people. People have morals. Larry, Sergei and Eric hold a combined 68% of the voting power for all outstanding capital stock.

I agree this was a straight business decision. Which is why Google is so being public about the Chinese govt's underhanded attempt to compromise their security and potentially do significant damage to Google's brand and IP.

A straight business decision does not eliminate a segment that is experiencing 65% growth. (This figure from 1H 09 and is search volume not market share)

The cynics will try hard to paint this as a business decision but it will be an uphill battle as this is clearly not the case.
Unbelievably, this is (if they go through with it) a case of a business doing what is best for the world instead of what is best for itself. Hopefully others will take notice.

edit: The numbers on Googles market share are all over the charts in this thread, here are my sources
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Google-Gained-Market-Share-in-bw-4143838247.html?x=0&.v=1
http://siliconrepublic.com/news/art...ined-market-share-in-china-in-past-six-months

 

[frostedflakes]

43%? You have a link on that? I thought it was much, much lower. Or are you talking about worldwide, and not just in China?

edit: Wow, just noticed the links. 43% is huge, almost unbelievably big. They had been doing a lot worse in China last I knew.

 

[Genx87]

FYI, China has a capitalistic economy. Their totalitarian policies in other areas doesn't negate or slow down their economic growth. The hope is that eventually the two merge and they realize that a capitalistic economy also requires a democracy. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet.

And btw, you're not picking anything from China. You're "picking clean" the poor, while the party members make out like bandits in their corrupt business arrangements. So... congrats?

From my experience via my dads business it is more like subsidized facism over there. My dad got a cost increase due to the govt cutting some of the products subsidy.