cytg111
Lifer
- Mar 17, 2008
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Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiies
If any of that bullshit were true you couldnt possibly IN ANY UNIVERSE be pro Trump. But You are. A Trumpist. A sad sorry excuse for a Sapiens. I think you know you are broken... with that knowledge, what would be the patriotic thing for you to do? .. for the species and all..
Don’t forget ‘so radically conservative that you voted for a corrupt, mentally ill racist because you thought he would destroy the system and that would reduce government spending’.
That seems like an important one.
- Mar 25, 2001
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You’re desire to put people in boxes and call them a liar if they ever fall outside it is a sad and misguided one. People can and do have all sorts of differing viewpoints in any manner of subjects. Hyperpartisanship is killing independent thought for many.
- Mar 25, 2001
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That I'm
Pro abortion
Pro environmental regulation including major investments in renewable energy
Anti tax cuts, although my reasons probably don’t line up with the lefts reasons
Pro women’s rights
Pro education and investments in it, just not pro free college (see my other thread)
Pro universal pre-k
Pro net neutrality
Anti war
Pro marijuana legalization (does that mean lean left?)
Pro tax reform and anti loopholes. Do that and I wouldn’t mind higher rates
Pro gay rights
Pro military spending cuts (massively)
Do you think it’s special that you have a few non-ultra right opinions? (Also why you think a bunch of those are liberal is strange) You hold off the charts radical right opinions on government spending that caused you to vote for a corrupt sociopath who opposes basically everything you just mentioned above because to you that was preferable to continued government spending.
When the chips are down it’s clear you would throw away all your supposedly liberal positions because you don’t really care. The thing that motivates you are your radical right opinions on spending and racial resentment.
cytg111
Lifer
- Mar 17, 2008
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Nope. A Trumpist is a Trumpist is you.
You confessed as much, you want Trump 2020, even in wake of aaaaaaaaaaaall this bullshit.
Anything you say in between is dishonest at best.
Go suck Putins cock.
- Mar 25, 2001
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Wanting to cut spending is not a radical position to hold. If that’s your idea of radical it shows how out of touch from the rest of America the left can truly be.
cytg111
Lifer
- Mar 17, 2008
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Wanting to cut it so badly that you vote for a corrupt sociopath is most certainly a radical position.
- Mar 25, 2001
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I didnt vote for Trump to cut spending, neither candidate was really going to do much of that. And it’s ironic that you are taking a jab at me for voting for someone who is corrupt while casting your vote for Clinton. But you’ve excused the birthday payments from governments, tarmac meeting, server to circumvent laws, and then start going back in time for all the shenanigans she and her husband have done.
You said you voted for a corrupt sociopath to burn the whole system down so that spending could be cut in the future.
This is an ultra, ultra right wing radical position to take and again, you knew Trump would be really bad for all those liberal positions you claim to hold and you voted for him anyway.
There is no excuse for voting for Trump and anyone who did should he reminded of what they did at every opportunity.
It’s not ironic at all, Trump is a lifelong criminal and Clinton is not. After all she’s been investigated more than any public figure in history and they found nothing. Oddly enough that seems to have convinced you of the opposite.
Remember, the ravings of right wing media are not reality.
And now, the inevitable "But Hillary!" routine, with conspiracy theories, of course.
The whole song & dance about smaller gubmint & reduced spending is just a foil to enable limitless greed of the financial elite.
But he really supports all these liberal positions. Sure he consistently votes for insanely extreme people who support policies that do the exact opposite of all those things but he feels bad about it so he’s a moderate.
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
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I guess the reverse partisanship has gotten to the point where lots of folks don’t even care what the other side thinks anymore. They’re just straight-up evil deplorables, not fellow voters whose preferences may differ but their vote counts the same as yours.
If you’d rather your politics be a morality play where a voter either votes 100% Dem and redeems themselves or their vote isn’t worth having, then go for it. Older generations realized politics was a sales game of identifying customer preferences, answering objections, etc. and each election and each candidate on the ballot represents a unique selling opportunity.
Unlike you nowadays, they realized that because you sold Coke and your neighbor drank Pepsi normally that didn’t make him evil. Rather any opinions he freely offered on why he preferred Pepsi were useful market intelligence for you, stuff you’d normally need to pay plenty to get via surveys and such. And you’d realize that literally anytime he bought Coke it was a win for you. Even if was a single can one time, it was still a sale you’d otherwise not made. You didn’t say “unless you never buy Pepsi again then I don’t want you as my customer.”
- Mar 25, 2001
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You added the “so that spending...” part, those are your words not mine. I do want spending cut, that’s one of the biggest issues facing this country and like global warming we by and large aren’t doing anything about it. But that really wasn’t what 2016 was about.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
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You are right. We don't care about what you think. We care about what you do.
For the past 50 years being a liberal meant you hate America. Now that the tables are flipping a tiny bit the poor poor conservatives are the victims.
Your analogy is shit. The Republicans are selling poison and you concern trolls are acting like the choice between Biden and Bernie will be the deciding factor on whether or not you want another big drink of their poison. I get it. We're the bad guys for telling you that drinking poison is bad.
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glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
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The thinking leads to the doing. I guess your side really does prefer to lose rather than pollute yourselves with voters who don’t 100% agree with you.
Oh, please. The GOP has been selling a divisive culture war mentality since Gingrich, at least, with God on their side all the way. White America is under Attack! Libs will take your freedom! Your individuality will be greyed out by big govt! Blah-blah-blah.
And they'll seek partisan advantage through dishonest anti-democratic means, like gerrymandering, voter suppression & even an intentional under count in the Census. Meanwhile, the top down class warfare of their financial backers continues with a vengeance. They've been winning for nearly 40 years.
There is a deeper moral issue here than your ludicrous Coke v Pepsi analogy.
So what. Again, none of the above is inherently "left". And again, what's with this "pro abortion" thing? The correct phrasing, if one is truly being honest, should be "pro choice". But, given your troubled relationship with the concept of truth... <shrug>
cytg111
Lifer
- Mar 17, 2008
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I dont mind rational debate .. What I dont like is dishonest engagement and that is what UC does... He will be "I like mayor Petes policies" while still rooting to burn everything to the ground hard anarchist style. That is two faced dishonest to the bone. I dont care for dishonesty. At all.
blankslate
Diamond Member
- Jun 16, 2008
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The problem with this is that people are labeling themselves not quite based on how they react to polls but how they see themselves based on how they interpret a typical stereo typical Moderate, Conservative, and Liberal as being.
However if you poll people on the issues without bringing labels into the equation usually the poll results in most people poll answering the poll in the way a liberal leaning person or at the very least a moderate Liberal would answer poll.
According to this article
Most Americans Are Liberal, Even If They Don’t Know It
granted this article is a few years but we can still say that most of the polls are still less than 4 or 5 years old.
The Article contains links to all of the polls so you can see. And it's a fairly lengthy list of issues From Taxes to Workers Rights to Social programs...
Some examples to which (as stated previously) you can find the link within the article to the supporting poll.
- 82 percent of Americans think wealthy people have too much power and influence in Washington.
- 59 percent of Americans—and 43 percent of Republicans—think corporations make “too much profit.”
- 66 percent of Americans think money and wealth should be distributed more evenly.
- 96 percent of Americans—including 96 percent of Republicans—believe money in politics is to blame for the dysfunction of the U.S. political system.
- 78 percent think some wealthy people don’t pay their fair share of taxes.
- 87 percent of Americans say it is critical to preserve Social Security, even if it means increasing Social Security taxes paid by wealthy Americans.
- 76 percent believe the wealthiest Americans should pay higher taxes.
- 61 percent of Americans—including 42 percent of Republicans—approve of labor unions.
- 74 percent of registered voters—including 71 percent of Republicans—support requiring employers to offer paid parental and medical leave.
- 60 percent of registered voters favor “expanding Medicare to provide health insurance to every American.”
- 60 percent of Americans believe “it is the federal government’s responsibility to make sure all Americans have healthcare coverage.”
- 76 percent of voters are “very concerned” or “somewhat concerned” about climate change.
- 77 percent of gun owners support requiring background checks for all gun buyers.
- 65 percent of Americans—including 42 percent of Republicans—say immigrants strengthen the country “because of their hard work and talents.”
- 58 percent of Americans believe that abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
- 62 percent of Americans—including 70 percent of independents and 40 percent of Republicans—support same-sex marriage.
So based on the above examples of how people tend to answer polls on the individual issues (instead of how people see themselves on a political spectrum) a fair majority of people are arguably more liberal than they tend to believe and based on that I believe that a candidate who promotes liberal/populist ideas can bring in Moderate/Independent voters as well as the Base of the Democratic Party.
As long as that candidate actually believes in his or her positions (aka is not just pandering) and can articulate well why they believe in those positions
That is my hypothesis based on how people answer polls on separate issues without asking them about political labels
Remember Trump acted like a populist (he was lying of course). While his opponent planted her flag squarely in just left of center (mostly) political positions in regards to economics.
OP based on David Brooks' statements I believe that he, like most people answering the label polls, are paying more attention to the labels rather than the issues.
_____________
glenn1
Lifer
- Sep 6, 2000
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Mayor Pete isn’t going to be the pick of someone who isn’t an incrementalist. The “burn everything to the ground” types are just a subset of a larger group who want major changes to society even though it’s not readily apparent they would be the ones to benefit.
- Mar 25, 2001
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You keep calling me dishonest which in and of itself is extremely dishonest. I do like Mayor Pete, if he was the candidate I might vote for him. I doubt he will he because the nominees seem to be in a race to see who can be the farthest to the left and I don’t think he fits the bill. You take a "burn it to the ground" quote out of context and continuously try to attack me with it which I guess who cares it’s a message board and I don’t really give a frick what you think of me. I’m not an anarchist though but feel free to keep dishonestly calling me one.
So..
Is a load of crap because that’s what you keep doing
- Mar 25, 2001
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That’s a well thought response and I agree with a lot of what you say. Without labels of left and right and liberal or conservative I think you get at true answers from people. And when asking individual questions and scenarios to people you’ll also find they have their own unique thoughts and ideas on them as well. I wish politics could be driven more by individual topics and how best to address instead of siding with whatever the party line is on it, but that’s the stranglehold the two parties have (and frankly enjoy) on us.
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