Going back to green: a rant

[digitaldurandal]

So I decided to give ATi a try. Nvidia is so late to the party, I sold both of my 285s and bought an Asus EAH5870.

Initial results seemed pretty good I was enjoying the card.

Then when I turn my computer on I find that every once in a while my second monitor does not show a picture, it is on, and has a signal but the picture itself is black. If I go into CCC and do anything to the monitor it shows up (generally I will choose flip and then press no to save changes and it returns to normal.) Heh kind of buggy I guess, I blame early drivers and move on.

I loaded up my Batman:AA save from my previous OS install and was pumped to finish the game. I go into the menu to crank settings and there is no in game AA setting for the card, so I have to use CCC to push it which means I am not really seeing a performance increase in that game. Okay, I already knew I was giving up Physx which I enjoyed in the game (see the scarecrow levels) but seriously no in game AA setting? A little research shows that Nvidia worked with the company to hack AA into the game and that there used to be a way to trick the game into thinking you have an Nv card and the AA working. A little pompus of Nv not to share it but I can understand their point if they worked on it personally. I guess you don't give stuff to your competitor if you can help it.

I later see there are a ton of games that if I want to use AA effectively I have to rename executables etc. Wow, I never had to worry with my 285s

Alright no biggie, I think to myself I got a card that comes with voltage settings and eyefinity. I currently have only 2 monitors but since BFBC2 supports eyefinity I am toying with the idea of a third. I go into CCC unlock overdrive and push the card 30mhz up. The screen starts flickering and shaking like crazy.

I notice that my idle clocks are dropping to 157/300 instead of 400/1200 that they are supposed to drop to. A search on the web for 5870 flickering dual monitors leads to MANY results. A lot of the results are laughable claiming, wait until 10.1 drivers I am sure theyll fix it. Well that certainly didn't happen - I have 10.1.

There are some solutions that involve flashing your BIOS and totally eliminating the power saving features of the card, another thing that is supposed to be awesome about the 5 series - 18w idle anyone? I didn't buy a space heater, I just want to unpack the card and have it work out of the box

So I have this card that is marketed for multiple monitors and being overclocker friendly, and it has a bug that won't allow both at the same time. Seriously?

Fermi, you'd better live up to the hype because I am jumping ship asap.

 

[dguy6789]

Driver issues are rare, but they do happen on both sides of the fence. Have you considered trying to find out a solution to the problem(either by google, a forum, or asking AMD) rather than complaining about it? Did you format your PC when changing graphics cards? The default Nvidia uninstall leaves a ton of junk behind.

AA is a generic standard feature that goes into pretty much every game. Now all of a sudden Nvidia has to work with Eidos or the game won't have AA at all? What a bunch of nonsense. Nvidia merely paid Eidos to disable AA. I am baffled by why anyone would encounter this problem and then side with Nvidia on it. Yay supporting anti-competitive practices I guess. One day you'll have entire games that you can only play on Nvidia cards if Nvidia keeps going in the direction they are going.

I've never heard of having to rename games to use AA. Never had that problem.

Good luck waiting for Fermi. Every rumor points to it being severely disappointing.

 

[SirPauly]

Driver issues are rare, but they do happen on both sides of the fence. Have you considered trying to find out a solution to the problem(either by google, a forum, or asking AMD) rather than complaining about it? Did you format your PC when changing graphics cards? The default Nvidia uninstall leaves a ton of junk behind.

AA is a generic standard feature that goes into pretty much every game. Now all of a sudden Nvidia has to work with Eidos or the game won't have AA at all? What a bunch of nonsense. Nvidia merely paid Eidos to disable AA. I am baffled by why anyone would encounter this problem and then side with Nvidia on it. Yay supporting anti-competitive practices I guess. One day you'll have entire games that you can only play on Nvidia cards if Nvidia keeps going in the direction they are going.

I've never heard of having to rename games to use AA. Never had that problem.

Good luck waiting for Fermi. Every rumor points to it being severely disappointing.

It's not a generic standard feature when it comes to the Unreal Engine and was always the point. Two amazing titles like Mass Effect 2 and BioShock 2 don't offer in-game AA.

 

[yacoub]

I'm with you in disappointment with ATI still being unable to put out completely stable drivers and CCC being a pile of junk even all these years later is pretty unacceptable. While I used to run ATI cards several years ago, when I switched to NVidia I learned what it is like to have stable, reliable, bug-free performance both in games and at the desktop. Recently, I, like many, have been 'forced' to switch to ATI due to NVidia's inability to put out a DX11 product. I quickly learned that essentially nothing's changed and I can't wait to get back to NVidia. All the people who worked to convince us that ATI is actually fine these days were wrong. Perhaps they've simply not had the better experience of running an NVidia card and just don't know better.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Welcome back to the green side. I never left. Still rockin my gtx280.

People called me dumb for recommending a nvidia card even though you get "less" for your money. I'm sorry a few more fps is worthless when your screen goes gray.

 

[yh125d]

Guys, stop being naive


I used only NV for 4 years til this summer when I bought a 4890. Guess what, no issues at all. If you feel like generalizing a company because of a few isolated issues -you- had, which often can be fixed by properly removing previous drivers, go ahead. I will meanwhile be enjoying having the luxury of being able to choose between cards from both companies rather than being stuck with only NV because "omg I didn't clear out the old drivers properly and now sometimes theres small bugs ATI sucks"



If you seriously think there's much of a difference between ATI and NV you're looking through some very dark glasses

 

[scooterlibby]

Good luck waiting for Fermi. Every rumor points to it being severely disappointing.

Every rumor, my God! Not just one rumor, or a handful, but EVERY rumor points to it being disappointing. Wait wait, SEVERELY disappointing, sorry. I was about to wait and see what Fermi actually did, you know, in real life, but in the face of such strident rumerical evidence (is "rumerical" a word? I heard from several sources that it was so it must be), I have bought a $729 5970 instead of waiting.

 

[happy medium]

I'm with you in disappointment with ATI still being unable to put out completely stable drivers and CCC being a pile of junk even all these years later is pretty unacceptable. While I used to run ATI cards several years ago, when I switched to NVidia I learned what it is like to have stable, reliable, bug-free performance both in games and at the desktop. Recently, I, like many, have been 'forced' to switch to ATI due to NVidia's inability to put out a DX11 product. I quickly learned that essentially nothing's changed and I can't wait to get back to NVidia. All the people who worked to convince us that ATI is actually fine these days were wrong. Perhaps they've simply not had the better experience of running an NVidia card and just don't know better.

I'm one of these people and I've had a Nvidia card since before the ti4200.
In fact my list is.

Riva 128 4 mb
TNT 16mb
mx420
ti4200
7800gs
8800gt -used for 60$
gts 250 1gb- used for 85$
gtx 260 (216) used for 125$
5750 in crossfire both used for under 200$
and now just a 1 5750. 85$

I made the switch because I'm not a fanboy and just wanted something different.
Got a real good deal on the 5750. Gave em a shot and no go. To many little bugs that just get on my nerves. I figured it's a new product and give it a chance.
Well they been out for 6 months and still the same old shit.

I also want to go back to Nvidia and it sucks because I bought a crossfire board for 2 ,5830's.:\

 

[Creig]

Fermi, you'd better live up to the hype because I am jumping ship asap.

And you think that Fermi, a brand new 3+ billion transistor architecture that has been delayed for 5+ months due to design/production problems isn't going to have driver or possibly even hardware issues of its own?


I wish you luck.

 

[mhouck]

i've had both company's cards. 7900gs, 8800GTS 512 stepped up to 9800Gx2, 4890 to 5870. I've had issues with both sides cards (9800Gx2 stuttering issues in particular in Mass Effect, Far Cry2 and Crysis Warhead) (4890 grey backgrounds in certain scenes w/ Boarderlands). Neither company is perfect. I agree w/ OP about the driver release the last month being disappointing but overall I don't agree that it is anything worth disclaiming a company. There are tons of technological glitches that occur with products from either company over theire lifetime and will continue to be. Patience is a virtue often rewarded.

 

[Creig]

Recently, I, like many, have been 'forced' to switch to ATI due to NVidia's inability to put out a DX11 product.

Who exactly 'forced' you to switch to ATi due to DX11? I wasn't aware that DX11 content was already so prevalent in the marketplace that you now require a DX11 capable video card in order to enjoy gaming.

My 4890OC seems to be running all my games just fine. Oh, and it has stable, reliable, bug-free performance both in games and at the desktop as well. You don't need to own an Nvidia card to enjoy those benefits.

 

[dguy6789]

All the people who worked to convince us that ATI is actually fine these days were wrong. Perhaps they've simply not had the better experience of running an NVidia card and just don't know better.

If you are unable to get ATI cards working without issue, then maybe you shouldn't be building your own computers. One would have to be considerably incompetent to achieve such a feat, at least to the point where they would go onto a forum and say what you just said.

Every rumor, my God! Not just one rumor, or a handful, but EVERY rumor points to it being disappointing. Wait wait, SEVERELY disappointing, sorry. I was about to wait and see what Fermi actually did, you know, in real life, but in the face of such strident rumerical evidence (is "rumerical" a word? I heard from several sources that it was so it must be), I have bought a $729 5970 instead of waiting.

You must be new. Read about Fermi. If you have even a remote understanding of graphics cards, it would be clear as day. I'll give you a couple keywords to research: Prescott, R600, NV30. They all have quite a few aspects in common with one another. They also have quite a few aspects in common with Fermi.

 

[TJ Tom]

I have an ATi card (5850) and only had an nVidia card once before and I agree that ATi's driver support sucks at the moment but it's indeed naive to say nVidia is good because ATi is bad.

Both companies had poor drivers in the beginning, I remember there were alot of driver problems with the 8800GT in the beginning (had that one) but they recovered and I think ATi will too.

ATi is the brand to go with in my opinion. If nVidia was ATi at the moment they wouldn't just have bad drivers but you'd pay over a 1000 dollars for a HD5970. If they start making better cards than ATi I WILL go nVidia again because I just buy whats best but company wise, nVidia sucks, they're gangsters, crooks...

Just look at him
http://www.9to5mac.com/files/u312/nvidia_ceo_jen-hsun_huang.jpg

This is how I remember nVidia:
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1048824/nvidia-cheats-3dmark-177

ATi just makes cards the best they can, nVidia resorts to that kind of stuff to "win". Remember 8800GTX = 9800GTX = 250. When did ATi ever resort to cheating?

 

[happy medium]

If you are unable to get ATI cards working without issue, then maybe you shouldn't be building your own computers. One would have to be considerably incompetent to achieve such a feat, at least to the point where they would go onto a forum and say what you just said.



You must be new. Read about Fermi. If you have even a remote understanding of graphics cards, it would be clear as day.

Yea I read it was gonna be hot,use too much power,too exspensive ect. ect ect. BUT fast as hell and with the RIGHT driver support awesome.

Sounds kinda like the 8800gtx ha?

If it's like the 8800gtx bring it on!

 

[yacoub]

Who exactly 'forced' you to switch to ATi due to DX11?

Way to just ignore that I used "forced" with quotes around it to make it clear I don't mean literally "forced".

And, dguy: No, actually the PCs I build run perfectly fine aside from ATI's driver quirks. Which is why the ones I've built consistently ran with complete stability for many years while running NVidia cards and the only times my rigs have experienced issues is when ATI cards were a part of the build. But nice try trying to redirect it to be my fault that a product from a company well known throughout its history for having driver issues actually has driver issues.

 

[Creig]

Way to just ignore that I used "forced" with quotes around it to make it clear I don't mean literally "forced".

Recently, I, like many, have been 'forced' to switch to ATI

If you didn't actually mean "forced" then why use the word "forced"? The way you make it sound, you needed DX11 for some reason. Why?

the ones I've built consistently ran with complete stability for many years while running NVidia cards and the only times my rigs have experienced issues is when ATI cards were a part of the build.

So in many years of usage, the only time you ever had any issues whatsoever is when you had an ATI card installed? That must be some kind of record! I'm guessing you've never run Vista then:

 

[dguy6789]

So when you have problems that virtually nobody else has, you somehow come to the conclusion that you can't possibly be at fault and ATI is at fault even though just about everybody else has no problems.

ATI does not have a history of having driver issues, it's a myth. There is a cult or Nvidia users who have never used ATI that perpetuate the myth. They also maintain the myth that Nvidia has fewer problems. Google search results for graphics card problems related to ATI and Nvidia come up with far more results for Nvidia.

 

[waffleironhead]

Apparently you have never had any problems with nV drivers before and are shocked that they exist with ati. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret,every driver set has known issues, just browse thru the release notes for each company and you will see.

Personally I think it has to do with new card generation, plus new DX, plus new OS= early adopter blues.

 

[yacoub]

So in many years of usage, the only time you ever had any issues whatsoever is when you had an ATI card installed? That must be some kind of record! I'm guessing you've never run Vista then:

Correct. Ran WinXPx86 until January of this year, then went to Win7x64.

And dguy I'm just going to ignore your trolling from now on, because I haven't even mentioned the issues I have yet you're automatically blaming me. In fact, the issues I have are issues MANY people experience with Catalyst 9.12/10.1. They are confirmed to be ATI's issues, not mine.

 

[StrangerGuy]

*Cough* Shimmering AF *Cough*

Nevar forget.

 

[happy medium]

Apparently you have never had any problems with nV drivers before and are shocked that they exist with ati. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret,every driver set has known issues, just browse thru the release notes for each company and you will see.

Personally I think it has to do with new card generation, plus new DX, plus new OS= early adopter blues.

I agree totally. Thats the reason I didn't buy for 2/3 months but, come on now it's been 6 months.

I'm no newb, I know how to correctly uninstall drivers (Nvidia), and keep my system running tip top. Been doing it for 12 years. Something is definitly up with these 5xxx cards,if fact ATI acknowledges it with a hot fix. They still need more work in the drivers department.

 

[happy medium]

If you didn't actually mean "forced" then why use the word "forced"? The way you make it sound, you needed DX11 for some reason. Why?


So in many years of usage, the only time you ever had any issues whatsoever is when you had an ATI card installed? That must be some kind of record! I'm guessing you've never run Vista then:

No, I was smart enough to know NOT to install that operating system. (Vista).
I went from XP to windows 7 64 bit

 

[MarcVenice]

Op could oc his card 1MHz and clockspeeds will never drop below 400/1200MHz.

As for switching 2 285's for a single 5870? You're losing performance, should have stuck with those 285's for sure.

As for happy medium, you're being quite vague about your issues. To many little bugs that got on your nerves? Way to be helpfull ...

 

[PCboy]

*Cough* Shimmering AF *Cough*

Nevar forget.

Nevar forget 191.07 ForceWare Drivers. Cardkillers.

 

[BTA]

How to build a finicky, un-stable PC...

Asus motherboard? Check
OCZ Memory? Check
Antec PSU? Check
ATI Video Card? Check
Creative Labs Sound Card? Check