Going back to green: a rant

[fleshconsumed]

So in many years of usage, the only time you ever had any issues whatsoever is when you had an ATI card installed? That must be some kind of record! I'm guessing you've never run Vista then:

Take a look at the following article

http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/43383-amd-eats-into-nvidia-intel-graphics-market-share

So if you combine information from your graph and from tgdaily article it looks like ATI actually caused twice as many issues as nVidia on per card basis...

 

[yh125d]

How to build a finicky, un-stable PC...

Asus motherboard? Check
OCZ Memory? Check
Antec PSU? Check
ATI Video Card? Check
Creative Labs Sound Card? Check

The fail is heavy in this post

Asus? great
OCZ? Fine enough
Antec? great
ATI? fine
Creative? Go onboard man



Your possibly malinformed/inexperienced problems do not a bad product make

 

[digitaldurandal]

Driver issues are rare, but they do happen on both sides of the fence. Have you considered trying to find out a solution to the problem(either by google, a forum, or asking AMD) rather than complaining about it? Did you format your PC when changing graphics cards? The default Nvidia uninstall leaves a ton of junk behind.

AA is a generic standard feature that goes into pretty much every game. Now all of a sudden Nvidia has to work with Eidos or the game won't have AA at all? What a bunch of nonsense. Nvidia merely paid Eidos to disable AA. I am baffled by why anyone would encounter this problem and then side with Nvidia on it. Yay supporting anti-competitive practices I guess. One day you'll have entire games that you can only play on Nvidia cards if Nvidia keeps going in the direction they are going.

I've never heard of having to rename games to use AA. Never had that problem.

Good luck waiting for Fermi. Every rumor points to it being severely disappointing.

Well first, if you read my post youd see that I mentioned a search and there is a solution that I mentioned, but I am not comfortable having to make a custom xml file and flash my card, I want to keep my 3 year warranty on my 400$ card. So please read the post before you start whining that I should be looking for a solution instead of just complaining about it?

Secondly, if you read my post... I have a feeling all my responses to you will start this way, maybe you should reach each post twice for comprehension. There is information online that indicates that Nvidia actually went to the studio and made the code for the AA. So Nvidia has released a statement saying that even though it is a TWIMTBP game, they do not inhibit the other company from working with the developer and that ATi should have made its own AA hack. I do agree that they purposefully disable it for ATi, but then again why should they share the code if they made it?

Thirdly, maybe you are not just that bright at finding ways to use AA in games where ATi cannot? Here are a few games where if you rename the exe you can have AA with better results:
Unreal Tournament 3 (ever heard of it?)
Mass Effect 2 (yup...)
Bioshock (Wait look at this.. these were in your post.)

 

[yh125d]

Well first, if you read my post youd see that I mentioned a search and there is a solution that I mentioned, but I am not comfortable having to make a custom xml file and flash my card, I want to keep my 3 year warranty on my 400$ card. So please read the post before you start whining that I should be looking for a solution instead of just complaining about it?

Secondly, if you read my post... I have a feeling all my responses to you will start this way, maybe you should reach each post twice for comprehension. There is information online that indicates that Nvidia actually went to the studio and made the code for the AA. So Nvidia has released a statement saying that even though it is a TWIMTBP game, they do not inhibit the other company from working with the developer and that ATi should have made its own AA hack. I do agree that they purposefully disable it for ATi, but then again why should they share the code if they made it?

Thirdly, maybe you are not just that bright at finding ways to use AA in games where ATi cannot? Here are a few games where if you rename the exe you can have AA with better results:
Unreal Tournament 3 (ever heard of it?)
Mass Effect 2 (yup...)
Bioshock (Wait look at this.. these were in your post.)

And ATI has released statements saying they offered to help add AA to the game. It's a still debated topic best left to another thread unless you want this one completely derailed

 

[T2k]

Way to just ignore that I used "forced" with quotes around it to make it clear I don't mean literally "forced".

And, dguy: No, actually the PCs I build run perfectly fine aside from ATI's driver quirks. Which is why the ones I've built consistently ran with complete stability for many years while running NVidia cards and the only times my rigs have experienced issues is when ATI cards were a part of the build. But nice try trying to redirect it to be my fault that a product from a company well known throughout its history for having driver issues actually has driver issues.

When someone claims he builds PCs that run fine but the same time claims he's unable install an ATI video card properly...

...well, suffice to say I wouldn't allow this guy to replace my mouse, forget letting him inside any computer.

 

[Creig]

I do agree that they purposefully disable it for ATi, but then again why should they share the code if they made it?

Maybe because ATi also helps developers with coding for games, yet they've never purposely disabled it from running on Nvidia cards? I can't imagine that Nvidia card owners would be too thrilled if ATi suddenly decided that all the DX11 content help they've been giving to developers could only run on ATi cards.

I think we would all be better off not having that sort of situation develop simply because Nvidia wanted to start locking in-game effects to their own cards.

 

[tweakboy]

I applaud you! You did the right thing.

 

[hans030390]

I haven't had any issues with my 5770 and Windows 7 64-bit...so, in my book, ATI is perfectly fine. I don't know why other people are having problems (assuming they set everything up right as they claim).

 

[PCboy]

Maybe because ATi also helps developers with coding for games, yet they've never purposely disabled it from running on Nvidia cards? I can't imagine that Nvidia card owners would be too thrilled if ATi suddenly decided that all the DX11 content help they've been giving to developers could only run on ATi cards.

I think we would all be better off not having that sort of situation develop simply because Nvidia wanted to start locking in-game effects to their own cards.

Gotta love it when it's also disabled at the hardware level... lolphysx. I don't recall them having a Radeon restriction in the minimum requirements.

 

[MJinZ]

So I decided to give ATi a try. Nvidia is so late to the party, I sold both of my 285s and bought an Asus EAH5870.

Initial results seemed pretty good I was enjoying the card.

Then when I turn my computer on I find that every once in a while my second monitor does not show a picture, it is on, and has a signal but the picture itself is black. If I go into CCC and do anything to the monitor it shows up (generally I will choose flip and then press no to save changes and it returns to normal.) Heh kind of buggy I guess, I blame early drivers and move on.

I loaded up my Batman:AA save from my previous OS install and was pumped to finish the game. I go into the menu to crank settings and there is no in game AA setting for the card, so I have to use CCC to push it which means I am not really seeing a performance increase in that game. Okay, I already knew I was giving up Physx which I enjoyed in the game (see the scarecrow levels) but seriously no in game AA setting? A little research shows that Nvidia worked with the company to hack AA into the game and that there used to be a way to trick the game into thinking you have an Nv card and the AA working. A little pompus of Nv not to share it but I can understand their point if they worked on it personally. I guess you don't give stuff to your competitor if you can help it.

I later see there are a ton of games that if I want to use AA effectively I have to rename executables etc. Wow, I never had to worry with my 285s

Alright no biggie, I think to myself I got a card that comes with voltage settings and eyefinity. I currently have only 2 monitors but since BFBC2 supports eyefinity I am toying with the idea of a third. I go into CCC unlock overdrive and push the card 30mhz up. The screen starts flickering and shaking like crazy.

I notice that my idle clocks are dropping to 157/300 instead of 400/1200 that they are supposed to drop to. A search on the web for 5870 flickering dual monitors leads to MANY results. A lot of the results are laughable claiming, wait until 10.1 drivers I am sure theyll fix it. Well that certainly didn't happen - I have 10.1.

There are some solutions that involve flashing your BIOS and totally eliminating the power saving features of the card, another thing that is supposed to be awesome about the 5 series - 18w idle anyone? I didn't buy a space heater, I just want to unpack the card and have it work out of the box

So I have this card that is marketed for multiple monitors and being overclocker friendly, and it has a bug that won't allow both at the same time. Seriously?

Fermi, you'd better live up to the hype because I am jumping ship asap.

Same here, waiting for Fermi.

 

[T2k]

Then when I turn my computer on I find that every once in a while my second monitor does not show a picture, it is on, and has a signal but the picture itself is black. If I go into CCC and do anything to the monitor it shows up (generally I will choose flip and then press no to save changes and it returns to normal.) Heh kind of buggy I guess, I blame early drivers and move on.

I run an entire studio's technology dept, including 100+ machines (WS, render nodes, desktops, servers, the full track.) It's a high-end 3D environment and here we have consistent monitor sync/signal issues only with Nvidia cards especially under Windows 7 and it ranges from el cheapo GTSes to 4GB Quadro 5800s.

It's a fact. Did it make me to drop Nvidia entirely? Of course not, only an amateur would draw such conclusions.

I loaded up my Batman:AA save from my previous OS install and was pumped to finish the game. I go into the menu to crank settings and there is no in game AA setting for the card, so I have to use CCC to push it which means I am not really seeing a performance increase in that game. Okay, I already knew I was giving up Physx which I enjoyed in the game (see the scarecrow levels) but seriously no in game AA setting? A little research shows that Nvidia worked with the company to hack AA into the game and that there used to be a way to trick the game into thinking you have an Nv card and the AA working. A little pompus of Nv not to share it but I can understand their point if they worked on it personally. I guess you don't give stuff to your competitor if you can help it.

Another remark that shows little understanding -for starter there's nothing to hack to get the AA working, it's a standard DirectX approach. Which also means it's only NV who decided to put in a PCI# vendor filter and tell everyone (both publisher and customers) to take a hike. ATI provides development help to several titles the same way but never blocked players with non-ATI cards.

Different culture, y'know.

I later see there are a ton of games that if I want to use AA effectively I have to rename executables etc. Wow, I never had to worry with my 285s

Same lack of understanding - say thank you to Nvidia for screwing up the gaming industry before eventually quitting it...

Alright no biggie, I think to myself I got a card that comes with voltage settings and eyefinity. I currently have only 2 monitors but since BFBC2 supports eyefinity I am toying with the idea of a third. I go into CCC unlock overdrive and push the card 30mhz up. The screen starts flickering and shaking like crazy.

I notice that my idle clocks are dropping to 157/300 instead of 400/1200 that they are supposed to drop to. A search on the web for 5870 flickering dual monitors leads to MANY results. A lot of the results are laughable claiming, wait until 10.1 drivers I am sure theyll fix it. Well that certainly didn't happen - I have 10.1.

There are some solutions that involve flashing your BIOS and totally eliminating the power saving features of the card, another thing that is supposed to be awesome about the 5 series - 18w idle anyone? I didn't buy a space heater, I just want to unpack the card and have it work out of the box

So I have this card that is marketed for multiple monitors and being overclocker friendly, and it has a bug that won't allow both at the same time. Seriously?

Seriously? You got a lemon, boo-hoo, big deal - are you seriously bitching instead of getting it replaced?

Fermi, you'd better live up to the hype because I am jumping ship asap.

Please, sell your card for me for cheap and do it.

 

[Tempered81]

ATI is not newbie friendly. And I agree with you, OP, the CCC drivers are a pile of crap. They do have capability, and currently ATI hardware > Nvidia hardware. However, the grey-screen crash, 2nd monitor flickering, and powerplay bugs are absolutely real issues that ATI doesn't seem to bother putting effort into repairing.

If you want the best user-friendly experience, I agree, toss in a stock GTX285, load up the drivers & basic NVCP and begin your Batman save and enjoy good framerates & Phys-X. Something anyone kid or grandma with a BB gift card could do.

If you want top of the line hardware, benchmark potential, and highest FPS, you gotta go with ATi right now - as they have the superior engineered product. Sadly, Nvidia has them beat at the software & support level. (Until Fermi is out, at which point they will have ATi beat on the hardware and software level.) A quick glance of the hwbot, oc world records, and overclockers forums will show you what gfx hardware they are all using currently, and it isn't GT200b's or GTX295's.

The GF100 GTX470 & GTX480 will be stellar, no doubt about it. Combined with the features and reliability of NVCP, a vast array of TWIMTB game support, and Phsy-X hackjobs, it is destined to deliver an amazing experience for the beginner and extreme overclocker alike. Nvidia should price it competitively, but I don't think they will, since they never have before. 448 and 512 SP GF100 parts will rule the high-end in a couple months.

 

[T2k]

I have a feeling all my responses to you will start this way, maybe you should reach each post twice for comprehension. There is information online that indicates that Nvidia actually went to the studio and made the code for the AA. So Nvidia has released a statement saying that even though it is a TWIMTBP game, they do not inhibit the other company from working with the developer and that ATi should have made its own AA hack. I do agree that they purposefully disable it for ATi, but then again why should they share the code if they made it?

Complaining about the other one's reading comprehension while asking such silly question really makes me laughing out loud...

...how about researching the subject and gaining at least a basic understanding before starting flame baiter topics full of misinformation?

 

[Imp]

I just got my 5770 just a week ago, and haven't crashed a single time in a game. What it has done is crash twice on the desktop while I was surfing the internet, which is a lot worse. I've researched it and it looks like a problem with their power saving feature (157/300 MHz). Hoping it doesn't happen too frequently, but so far I'm satisfied, just been use to having an Nvidia card for 4 years.

I won't say Nvidia was that much better. It had its share of problems. I just found a stable set of drivers and stuck with them until a problem came up.

 

[T2k]

ATI is not newbie friendly. And I agree with you, OP, the CCC drivers are a pile of crap. They do have capability, and currently ATI hardware > Nvidia hardware.
(...)
Nvidia has them beat at the software & support level.

Nonsense. There's a whole world beyond personal opinions - I lost count of how many times we get really retarded issues here with every new Forceware release.

The GF100 GTX470 & GTX480 will be stellar, no doubt about it. Combined with the features and reliability of NVCP, a vast array of TWIMTB game support, and Phsy-X hackjobs, it is destined to deliver an amazing experience for the beginner and extreme overclocker alike. Nvidia should price it competitively, but I don't think they will, since they never have before. 448 and 512 SP GF100 parts will rule the high-end in a couple months.

Hmmm, where did I see this before...

found it:

GeForce FX 5800


The Dawn of Cinematic Computing
Power and performance, the two elements every gamer craves, are the heart and soul of the GeForce

FX 5800 GPUs. Powered by pure adrenaline and engineered with a passion for perfection, the GeForce FX delivers cinematic effects beyond imagination. Its CineFX engine produces gaming effects on par with the hottest motion pictures. Combined with the industry's first true 128-bit studio-quality color processing technology, 3D worlds and characters are more real than anything that's come before.

And they already knew it was the biggest flop in Nvidia's history...

Someone needs to read less PR stuff and do more research, I guess. :awe:

 

[GaiaHunter]

Fortunately never had major driver bugs with either company.

 

[blanketyblank]

When you're using the latest and greatest technology you should expect small bugs and glitches. I wish it wasn't so, but that's just the way things are until more people start using the product and reporting the problems and solutions are made. People writing games and drivers are all new to the technology so bugs happen (just look at all the games that need patches).

If you're using a product that's been out for a few years of course it will be stable once you get all the drivers and bug fixes for it. If it wasn't you'd be an idiot for buying it in the first place after reading the reviews and complaints people had with it.

Honestly if you're going to rant and make generalizations about one company or the other you need to compare like products so 4000 series vs. GTX 200 series is fair since they've both been out for a long time now. Even then ATI is at a disadvantage if you're comparing to the 250 since that chips been out for like ever. Just be an early adopter for fermi and see if there won't be any bugs or problems.

 

[Jovec]

The only video cards I've ever had a problem with were a DOA 7600gt AGP and my 7800GT that died after a year of use. My friend's 8800gts also has issues. I currently have about 8 4xxx/5xxx cards and none have issues. However, I know none of this anecdotal evidence is representative of everyone.

ATI put the smackdown on 260/280 price gouging. Nvidia, Eidos, and Rocksteady made a mistake with the AA fiasco. Repeatedly rebranding older cards with the naming conventions of newer generation cards is misleading. Nvidia also made a mistake by disabling using an Nvidia card for PhysX with ATI in XP/7. This blatant attempt to force us to buy Nvidia is just wrong and is not a company I want to do business with.

I know ATI isn't looking out for me either. I have no idea if market shares were reversed if ATI would be doing the things Nvidia is. I wish they scaled back their drivers to quarterly releases among other things, but I view them as the lesser of the two evils. The only power we have as consumers is the ability to choose where we spend our money.

 

[PCboy]

The only video cards I've ever had a problem with were a DOA 7600gt AGP and my 7800GT that died after a year of use. My friend's 8800gts also has issues. I currently have about 8 4xxx/5xxx cards and none have issues. However, I know none of this anecdotal evidence is representative of everyone.

ATI put the smackdown on 260/280 price gouging. Nvidia, Eidos, and Rocksteady made a mistake with the AA fiasco. Repeatedly rebranding older cards with the naming conventions of newer generation cards is misleading. Nvidia also made a mistake by disabling using an Nvidia card for PhysX with ATI in XP/7. This blatant attempt to force us to buy Nvidia is just wrong and is not a company I want to do business with.

I know ATI isn't looking out for me either. I have no idea if market shares were reversed if ATI would be doing the things Nvidia is. I wish they scaled back their drivers to quarterly releases among other things, but I view them as the lesser of the two evils. The only power we have as consumers is the ability to choose where we spend our money.

Well said.

 

[yacoub]

When someone claims he builds PCs that run fine but the same time claims he's unable install an ATI video card properly...

Nice twist of what was said so you could try to blame me when it's clearly not user error. I never said there were any issues installing the card. There were no issues installing the card. So either you must be talking about someone else or you are just unable to comprehend what you read. :hmm:
But feel free to keep using trolling tactics and I will continue to point out exactly what you're doing. Or you could take your head out of the sand and stop refusing to acknowledge that there are some widespread issues with ATI's drivers and CCC.
Unless ATI is paying you to do so, no one asked you to come here simply to offer an unhelpful, rude defense for ATI by trying to insinuate the customers are at fault.

 

[T2k]

There were no issues installing the card.

Right there, you just confirmed my point about the lack of understanding.

 

[Grooveriding]

One issue with my 5870 cf setup and that was the flicker on my second screen due to power management features. Fixed in a driver update, now no issues at all.

Nothing to see here but massive PEBKAC

I also had 0 issues with my GTX 285 previously, apart from it not downclocking out of 3d mode with two monitors connected to it. Something that is still not fixed.

 

[T2k]

Nothing to see here but massive PEBKAC

A.K.A. error ID10t :biggrin: (couldn't resist, sorry)

 

[nitromullet]

IMO, the biggest issue with ATI drivers is not anything to do with quality, but the design choice not to allow user defined profiles. Most of the ATI cards I've owned were powerful enough to force AA via CCC instead of in game and not take a severe performance hit, but in Unreal Engine 3 games you have to have a profile for even this to work.

This wouldn't be such a bad design decision if ATI ran out and got the game the day it came out, created a profile, and released it as an unsupported, alpha, "don't call us for support" hotfix that afternoon. ...but they don't, they usually make you "wait for the new Cats".

...not the end of the world I guess, but just irritating when you own the touted "highest performing single gpu on the planet" and you can't even play the latest gotta have game with AA for weeks after its release.

 

[beginner99]

No, I was smart enough to know NOT to install that operating system. (Vista).
I went from XP to windows 7 64 bit

lol. Win 7 is just a little rebranded vista with a few changes. Something has a bad reputation? well why not just change the name? Win 7 is just a well done Hype by MS, so they can sell more again.