God? What do you think:

[shadow9d9]

There's no point. Nothing is good enough for you. I have no reason to waste time proving every single thing I ever say, because everything I say is ignored unless I can come up with some mystical proof that cannot be defined by the requesters. You don't even bother to evaluate what I say at face value, you immediately reject it.

And the worst part of it all, is the reasons things are rejected. The assumptions constantly made about me even when I reject the assumptions 10 times in the same thread. Assumptions on what I believe, assumptions on my intentions. It's this crazy little imaginative world you live in where everything is only what you pretend it to be, and anyone who knows better is the crazy one. You immediately reject because you want to keep the walls up, too afraid of what it might mean if everything you believed in was a lie. And maybe it isn't all a lie, maybe it is all actually a lot simpler than you realize. But that too is far too scary to accept. That life could be simpler than it seems.

You want something from me but you don't even know what that is. You think I want something but it is only made up in your mind. I am not even here, all you see is a projection of your own thoughts.

This is the good old fallback... just deflection, evasion... ANYTHING but having to substantiate your claims.

 

[jonks]

Why is it always Christianity that is attacked?

We already have a whole recent thread on this. Answers were many.

 

[Blackjack200]

How do you know it has always been moving at the same speed or that it started at the same place? I agree with your conclusion but your way of getting there is very flawed.

How do you know? Well, I guess you don't. You also don't know that Jupiter isn't a giant marshmellow, it's just our observations that suggest that it probably isn't. When you look at the arrangement and velocity of galixies, they suggest that that they started out together and started moving apart a certain amount of time ago.

It's like if you see a mushroom cloud, you don't know that it didn't just spontaneously appear, but you can make an assumption that a nuclear bomb caused it.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I think there's one thing we can all agree on. If God does exist, he's a dick.

Would you rather exist as who you are or have a significantly better world to have lived in... I feel the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[shadow9d9]

You think Islam isn't up for scrutiny? Take a look at my avatar.

Islam is practiced mostly by extremely poor, uneducated, oppressed people who need religion to survive, while christianity and all its craziness is practiced by wealthy and supposedly educated people.

 

[bfdd]

Would you rather exist as who you are or have a significantly better world to have lived in... I feel the two are mutually exclusive.

I would rather be me. I would never give that up for anything.


and I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Atheist. I just can't see a good reason to believe in a god. I've gotten into lengthy debates about who can or can't prove what, but what believers never seem to address amidst their protestations about why I can't say there isn't god is that the method by which EVERYONE arrives at the conclusion that there is a god is a flawed and unsound thing that even they would never allow to stand if it were being applied to anything other than religion. If it isn't a good enough method for me to use to figure out definitively what lies under yonder rock, then it isn't good enough to build the kind of certitude around that religion seems to require.

The difference is that I can go look under yonder rock and find out what's there. The religious methodology would be to look past yonder rock to even yonderer mountain, imagine whatever we want under it, and walk away smug in the knowledge that no one could possibly look under the mountain to prove you wrong. You wouldn't let someone use that method to determine anything of real-world importance. Yet every religious person in the world is content to form an all-encompassing philosophy of the universe around it. It makes no sense.

 

[Cookie]

... while christianity and all its craziness is practiced by wealthy and supposedly educated people.

I think this is NOT true. I don't have time to find 'proof' or the other thread that talked about it, but Christianity is practised in MANY poor countries, and MANY poor areas of rich countries. Also, the thread I am thinking of said the more educated someone was, the less likely they were to be Christian (maybe religious in general, I don't remember).

Anyway, I'm sure if we had as many Muslims on this forum as we do Christians, we would see more atheist vs Muslim threads, and likely Christian vs Muslim threads.

If that happened the mods might have to think about creating an ATReligion forum!

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

How do you know it has always been moving at the same speed or that it started at the same place? I agree with your conclusion but your way of getting there is very flawed.

Well, in the case of light, we've observed it... a lot. And curiously all the times we've observed it, it always propagates at basically the same speed.

Furthermore, we don't observe entire patterns of light popping into existence as if they were "on the way" somewhere like our retinas.

Basically, the most parsimonious and reasonable explanation is that the universe appears very old because it is very old. If you have a better explanation, I'm sure there's a committee in Stockholm that would love to hear it.

 

[Juddog]

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I think this is NOT true. I don't have time to find 'proof' or the other thread that talked about it, but Christianity is practised in MANY poor countries, and MANY poor areas of rich countries. Also, the thread I am thinking of said the more educated someone was, the less likely they were to be Christian (maybe religious in general, I don't remember).

Anyway, I'm sure if we had as many Muslims on this forum as we do Christians, we would see more atheist vs Muslim threads, and likely Christian vs Muslim threads.

If that happened the mods might have to think about creating an ATReligion forum!

That's because Christians managed to get to them first.

 

[Minjin]

Well, in the case of light, we've observed it... a lot. And curiously all the times we've observed it, it always propagates at basically the same speed.

Furthermore, we don't observe entire patterns of light popping into existence as if they were "on the way" somewhere like our retinas.

Basically, the most parsimonious and reasonable explanation is that the universe appears very old because it is very old. If you have a better explanation, I'm sure there's a committee in Stockholm that would love to hear it.

I'm not arguing about the age of the universe. I am just saying that his argument, as presented, was flawed and I pointed out the flaws.

 

[zinfamous]

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I would rather be me. I would never give that up for anything.


and I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive.

If it weren't for the trials and tribulations you've faced then would you still be who you are?

I just can't see a good reason to believe in a god.

You will live a happier life (though possibly not happier by your standards today) and you will grow spiritual, just in case there happens to be some cosmic truth to it all.

Even if you chose the 'wrong' religion, that doesn't mean that the basic grain of spiritual truth isn't right, and you have therefor gained spiritually.

 

[bfdd]

If it weren't for the trials and tribulations you've faced then would you still be who you are?

You will live a happier life (though possibly not happier by your standards today) and you will grow spiritual, just in case there happens to be some cosmic truth to it all.

Even if you chose the 'wrong' religion, that doesn't mean that the basic grain of spiritual truth isn't right, and you have therefor gained spiritually.

I live an incredibly happy life and I do not believe in a God or gods.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

bfdd: If you didn't face those negatives that you have in life would you still be the person you are today?

If not then God removing those things would have destroyed who you are.

I live an incredibly happy life and I do not believe in a God or gods.

I'm happy to hear it. As I pointed out, the happier I'm talking about isn't by your own standards today, but by those standards you would have if you had a relationship with God.

 

[dr150]

Head - Atheist

Heart - Kriya Yoga

 

[Nik]

hahahahahahaha

 

[shadow9d9]

I think this is NOT true. I don't have time to find 'proof' or the other thread that talked about it, but Christianity is practised in MANY poor countries, and MANY poor areas of rich countries. Also, the thread I am thinking of said the more educated someone was, the less likely they were to be Christian (maybe religious in general, I don't remember).

Anyway, I'm sure if we had as many Muslims on this forum as we do Christians, we would see more atheist vs Muslim threads, and likely Christian vs Muslim threads.

If that happened the mods might have to think about creating an ATReligion forum!

I am referring to most of America and Europe, which is generally the most relevant to people here.

Additionally, it is the christians, especially in america, that keep trying to force their religion down everyone's throats, including concocting ridiculous legislation based on their religion's morality.

 

[Cookie]

I'm happy to hear it. As I pointed out, the happier I'm talking about isn't by your own standards today, but by those standards you would have if you had a relationship with God.

Can you elaborate?

Believing in god does not make you happier, but it changes your standards on happiness?

 

[Veliko]

I'm happy to hear it. As I pointed out, the happier I'm talking about isn't by your own standards today, but by those standards you would have if you had a relationship with God.

This is a paradox. There is no God so it is impossible for me to have a relationship with Him.

 

[Juddog]

Can you elaborate?

Believing in god does not make you happier, but it changes your standards on happiness?

Yeah that statement confused me as well. Some of the religious folk seem to believe that God = Good. So without God, there is no good in the world, or something like that.

I think it has to do with at which point you begin to become religious, and how much of your thoughts refer to that cluster in your brain which turns on religious thoughts.

Let's say for instance that you have a very devout Christian, who every day thanks the lord for their blessings, and every time something good happens, they thank God. Now if you take a look at that person's brain, I would bet that there would be numerous neuron clusters that all point their way to the religious portion of their brain. Therefore, a world without belief for them, would be to cut away that whole chunk of their brain for which they've used and built upon constantly their whole lives.

For this type of person, a world without God is simply unimaginable. For them to take away God from their lives would be the equivalent of electroshock therapy; it would do so much damage to their psyche that they would be miserable afterwards for the rest of their lives.

If you compare that to say an atheist, who is still a good person and who's main objectives are to further the species as a whole, then you'd have someone who found other ways to utilize that part of their brain. So take away God, and there is no neurological change, they simply have found a replacement way to use positive feedback in their brains. For example if something amazing happened to them, they might just think of it as awesome and thus reinforce their behavior which caused the amazing thing to happen, versus a deeply religious person who would thank God and reinforce that part of their brain which believes in God.

 

[Nik]

Yeah that statement confused me as well. Some of the religious folk seem to believe that God = Good. So without God, there is no good in the world, or something like that.

I think it has to do with at which point you begin to become religious, and how much of your thoughts refer to that cluster in your brain which turns on religious thoughts.

Let's say for instance that you have a very devout Christian, who every day thanks the lord for their blessings, and every time something good happens, they thank God. Now if you take a look at that person's brain, I would bet that there would be numerous neuron clusters that all point their way to the religious portion of their brain. Therefore, a world without belief for them, would be to cut away that whole chunk of their brain for which they've used and built upon constantly their whole lives.

For this type of person, a world without God is simply unimaginable. For them to take away God from their lives would be the equivalent of electroshock therapy; it would do so much damage to their psyche that they would be miserable afterwards for the rest of their lives.

If you compare that to say an atheist, who is still a good person and who's main objectives are to further the species as a whole, then you'd have someone who found other ways to utilize that part of their brain. So take away God, and there is no neurological change, they simply have found a replacement way to use positive feedback in their brains. For example if something amazing happened to them, they might just think of it as awesome and thus reinforce their behavior which caused the amazing thing to happen, versus a deeply religious person who would thank God and reinforce that part of their brain which believes in God.

Well thought out.

 

[HAL9000]

Yeah that statement confused me as well. Some of the religious folk seem to believe that God = Good. So without God, there is no good in the world, or something like that.

I think it has to do with at which point you begin to become religious, and how much of your thoughts refer to that cluster in your brain which turns on religious thoughts.

Let's say for instance that you have a very devout Christian, who every day thanks the lord for their blessings, and every time something good happens, they thank God. Now if you take a look at that person's brain, I would bet that there would be numerous neuron clusters that all point their way to the religious portion of their brain. Therefore, a world without belief for them, would be to cut away that whole chunk of their brain for which they've used and built upon constantly their whole lives.

For this type of person, a world without God is simply unimaginable. For them to take away God from their lives would be the equivalent of electroshock therapy; it would do so much damage to their psyche that they would be miserable afterwards for the rest of their lives.

If you compare that to say an atheist, who is still a good person and who's main objectives are to further the species as a whole, then you'd have someone who found other ways to utilize that part of their brain. So take away God, and there is no neurological change, they simply have found a replacement way to use positive feedback in their brains. For example if something amazing happened to them, they might just think of it as awesome and thus reinforce their behavior which caused the amazing thing to happen, versus a deeply religious person who would thank God and reinforce that part of their brain which believes in God.

I couldn't agree more, the number of religious types that (when I say I'm an atheist) ask why do I good things...?! Like the only reason to do anything good is because god will judge you or reward you. How selfish is that?!

 

[SlitheryDee]

You will live a happier life (though possibly not happier by your standards today) and you will grow spiritual, just in case there happens to be some cosmic truth to it all.

Even if you chose the 'wrong' religion, that doesn't mean that the basic grain of spiritual truth isn't right, and you have therefor gained spiritually.

I'm not even clear about the meaning of the word spiritual. It doesn't really seem to apply to anything in my world-view. I'm of the opinion that there is no spirit in the sense that most people mean, so turning the word into a descriptor and using it to describe something you can gain or lose is literally meaningless to me. "Gaining spiritually" would mean gaining a sense of things that I can't detect which, besides being an impossibility, would require the same faulty logic to convince myself of as would acquiring religious belief. People sometimes try and use spirituality as something wholly separate from religion, as in "One can be non-religious but highly spiritual...", but the same gulf separates me from spirituality as separates me from religion.