Originally posted by: iversonyin
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: JS80
Union pay is not market so you're the ignorant one.
Unions are in the market. They're part of the big picture, and aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Get used to it.
Let's say you're opening up a car manufacturing plant... you want to hire people for $15 an hour with no health benefits but your competitor down the road has a union shop and pays $18 an hour with full benefits. Who will the best candidates choose? You'll be left with scraps.
Yes, unions influence the market, but that's because they have much more bargaining power than any individual employee. If anything, they keep the businesses honest. Otherwise, you'd see management cutting the workers' pay while they give themselves raises.
No neccessarily. Unions are the thing of the past. They were form to protect factory workers from working in hazard envirnoment and being underpaid.
That being said, unions are no longer neccessary because it makes U.S. workers less compeitive global wise.
Your example is flaw because you assume that people that doesn't belong in union and being paid less = less skilled. If there is a short of labor supply, then of course the business that pay higher with benefit will attract the best workers. But if there is plenty of labor supply, your argurment becomes flaw.
So tell me how Honda, Toyota, and other profitable car manufacturers survive with non-unions scraps?
You're wrong on almost all counts.
1. Unions are definitely still needed because with business becoming more cutthroat than ever, you need someone to stand up for your rights as a worker. If you were on your own, the business would pull a fast one on you and you'd have little to no say in the matter. They could do you dirty and get away with it.
But when employees team up and unionize, their voice carries much more weight. Companies can't get away with the dirty tactics that they normally can, and they are held accountable for their actions. They can also hire better lawyers that can more effectively argue their rights in court.
2. I didn't say that people that are non union and paid less are less skilled. What I said is that a more experienced worker that is looking for a job will obviously go for the higher paying job, and he'd be in a better position to land that job than someone who has less experience.
3. You seem to be under the false impression that Honda and Toyota have no autoworker unions, and that it's just an American thing. They do have unions. They have unions both in the US and back in Japan. Obviously they don't need to survive with non-union scraps when they have unions.
