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GM slashes top salaries by up to 50%
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Your posts are much more trollish than Ronstang's. Ronstang at least seems to believe that people earn a living.
You, on the other hand, think you're entitled to something for being the biggest, fattest nerd. You are entitled to nothing in this life. Either earn your keep or prepare to be walked on.
JLGastby, I think you are one of the biggest douchebags on this forum. But I've never agreed more with you, or likely anyone else on this forum. The people who work at GM are overpaid, on every level. From management down to the floor. The people on the floor deserve no more than $10-$12 per hour. It's not rocket science, really.
I realize that spidey, but JLGatsby's point about a full analysis is quite right. We can't look at the wages exclusively and make judgement. While the market demand may exist to maintain the market price for labour at its current level, their other financial obligations are excessive. While I don't agree they need their wages cut, I do believe they need to have their benefits cut to allow similar cost structures between competing auto manufacturers.
Edit: I guess in retrospect my point about wage cuts isn't exactly right. I was trying to demonstrate the point that cuts are necessary. Whether those cuts be in wages or in benefits doesn't really matter for the sake of discussion. The most important thing is that the cost per employee for both manufacturers remain similar.
Take a look at my edit.
At least I made profit, it's a claim that GM can't make.
If you don't think that differing cost structures are largely, if not completely, responsible for disparities between competing auto makers you are misguided. Wages are not the only component of employee costs, and in the case of GM they seem to be of relatively minimal concern.
while absolutely true, the misnomer that foreign automakers don't pay or have the same benefits of domestic manufacturers needs to be stopped and immediately squelched. This misinformation simply must stop on this forum for a decent discussion to take place.
A few courses in economics/business management for some could help as well.
$10-$12 is really low for semi-skilled to skilled workers. No one is going to work at a plant for thoes wages when they can go sweep floors or be a security guard for more money. Seeing as how Toyota and other foreign manufacturers wages are similar, that is the going rate for auto manufacturer workers.
Go ask a similar tradesmen(like plumber, electrician, construction trade, truck driver etc) if he would work for that much money, they will laugh at you. Sure it doesn't take a higher education to do the job, but it does take time invested and experience to do it right. I understand being a privileged kid going for a high end education you look down on these "lowly" workers. Fact is that they are the heart of America that keeps it running day to day.
The quickest way to send all auto manufacturing over seas is to drop wages that low. I am amazed by how quickly people want to short change the American public even more and take away more of their jobs and income. Soon there will be nothing left, so I hope you speak chinese and are willing to work for $1/hour.
The big three have wage tiers
Older workers make up tp $30 an hour
New workers start at $16-18 an hour
Unions have made alot of concessions to keep their jobs.
Pensions and health care are killing GM. Foreign US plants all have the lower tier wages and benefits. They do not have many if any retirees.
People overeact when they hear how much health care GM workers cost. How much does yours cost? Do you even know how much your employer pays and how much you pay?
As a Union employee (not UAW) I pay about 4.50 for HC per hour, because thats what medicore insurance costs these days.
Older workers make up tp $30 an hour
New workers start at $16-18 an hour
Unions have made alot of concessions to keep their jobs.
Pensions and health care are killing GM. Foreign US plants all have the lower tier wages and benefits. They do not have many if any retirees.
People overeact when they hear how much health care GM workers cost. How much does yours cost? Do you even know how much your employer pays and how much you pay?
As a Union employee (not UAW) I pay about 4.50 for HC per hour, because thats what medicore insurance costs these days.
iversonyin
Diamond Member
If they don't make those concessions, you think GM would survive without reorganization and chapter 11 and bunch of layoffs?
You pay $4.50 an hour for HC, how much the company pays per employees? Multiply that by the number of employees they have, you come up with a huge liability on your balance sheet.
And when we get to pension, its get even worse. Most pension plans are underfunded. More liabilities = less room to work with.
And because of these liabilities, credit rating agencies such as S&P and Moody downgrade credit rating. Bad credit rating= pay more interest on debt.
I like this move by GM, it eventually need to be done. I hope it (cost-cutting) doesn't cut into the car design and build quality.
Unions are in the market. They're part of the big picture, and aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Get used to it.
Let's say you're opening up a car manufacturing plant... you want to hire people for $15 an hour with no health benefits but your competitor down the road has a union shop and pays $18 an hour with full benefits. Who will the best candidates choose? You'll be left with scraps.
Yes, unions influence the market, but that's because they have much more bargaining power than any individual employee. If anything, they keep the businesses honest. Otherwise, you'd see management cutting the workers' pay while they give themselves raises.
iversonyin
Diamond Member
$2 * hours work needed per year/worker * number of workers = $$$$$$$$$
Do you guys think or what? Every dollar counts in business.
JackBurton
Lifer
Maybe you can explain that theory to professional athletes and drop your "unions are to blame for everything" bullsh!t speech. :roll:
Like I said before, the UAW is a problem, but it's not what is killing GM. The problem is at the top, there is no question about it.
iversonyin
Diamond Member
No neccessarily. Unions are the things of the past. They were formed to protect factory workers from working in hazard envirnoment and being underpaid.
That being said, unions are no longer neccessary because it makes U.S. workers less compeitive global wise.
Your example is flaw because you assume that people that doesn't belong in union and being paid less = less skilled. If there is a short of labor supply, then of course the business that pay higher with benefit will attract the best workers. But if there is plenty of labor supply, your argurment becomes flaw.
So tell me how Honda, Toyota, and other profitable car manufacturers survive with non-unions scraps?
Unions will never become obsolete. As long as we have bargaining power employers will listen. Look at non union sectors, wages down, benefits down, not to compete but to increase profit.
Workers are losing more and more rights each year. The day will come when people begin to reappreciate unions and will want to organize.
JackBurton
Lifer
NM
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