GM slashes top salaries by up to 50%

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Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
18
81
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
byebye thread.

My post was no less "trollish" than Ronstang's, just defending the otherside.

I am probably more conservative/Rebuplican than you and a lot of times I agree with you (to a certain extent) but I am not a troll. My statement was 100% accurate. GM's management has been playing ostrich for decades with their stupid "if we build them they will buy them" attitude that has shown they did not have their fingers on the pulse of America. They designed crap, and they built crap. They did not confront the unions when they should have and they put all their eggs in one basket with their SUVs. Management is more responsible for GM's trouble than the union. They should have never let the union stranglehold them to the degree they have. You can't ask the union for concessions if the management doesn't have to take responsibility for their actions also.

You are a smart guy but are no better than a knee jerk liberal if you don't apply reason and logic to each situation. If you want people to take you seriously you need to stop being a parrot. At times you sound like one of those dolls that when you pull the string in their back they reply with a few canned responses....if you are going to act like that then you appear no more intelligent than Dave McOwen.
 

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
Yet another thread where JLGatsby... oh nevermind, eveyone knows he's a tool.

Now people can't bitch about the top guys getting all the bonuses and benefits. What will they do!?!?!?
Hopefully GM comes back and starts to do good business again.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: SampSon
Yet another thread where JLGatsby... oh nevermind, eveyone knows he's a tool.

Now people can't bitch about the top guys getting all the bonuses and benefits. What will they do!?!?!?
Hopefully GM comes back and starts to do good business again.

It will be very difficult with the financial position they are in. They're bleeding cash.

combine rising high labor costs with losing market share and a rival pooring cash into your market doing everything they can to take you out = you're in trouble.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: Ronstang
It is important for GM to punish the executives that have led GM to the brink of disater so that the unions have no bitching point on the cuts that will face them for their part of this mess.

Shut it, the only people that need their salaries cut are the fat, overpaid, factory workers.

Some hick with barely a high school education screwing on mudflaps for $40 an hour in the name of "keeping the traditional middle class alive" is bullcrap.

JLG: I think you misunderstood his post. This is actually step 1 to getting rid of the unions. Now they can say "see we cut executive pay by 50%, and we're still losing money. It's the union's fault kill the unions!!!"
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Originally posted by: SampSon
Yet another thread where JLGatsby... oh nevermind, eveyone knows he's a tool.

Now people can't bitch about the top guys getting all the bonuses and benefits. What will they do!?!?!?
Hopefully GM comes back and starts to do good business again.

lol, people will always bitch about CEO's making to much money.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
foreign Manuf's pay the same amount, just the top execs dont make the money ppl here do.

Wrong! Foreign plants in America pay less benefits, like pensions and healthcare, which is why they are able to be profitable and spend more on quality parts which leads to better built cars.

wrong, they are very comparable otherwise nobody would work there.



Toyota spends about $185 per car on health care costs globally.

GM spends $2500 in America

Not exactly apples to apples because Toyota enjoys the luxury of nationalized medicine, but I would bet my right arm that Toyota requires their US employees to pay much more in premiums than GM's US employees.
 

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
It will be very difficult with the financial position they are in. They're bleeding cash.

combine rising high labor costs with losing market share and a rival pooring cash into your market doing everything they can to take you out = you're in trouble.
Of course it's not going to happen overnight.

lol, people will always bitch about CEO's making to much money.
Yea, people bitching about the top is a constant in life.

 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
cpa,

those figures include retired workers of which toyota has almost none in north america so you can't really use that as a comparison or even use a per unit comparison.

the wages are very similar as are the benefits.

 

middlehead

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2004
4,573
2
81
Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE
The troubled automaker slashed its dividend in half Tuesday, along with the pay of CEO Rick Wagoner, and said that other top officers and directors are taking a haircut as well.
:confused:

 

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: CPA
Toyota spends about $185 per car on health care costs globally.

GM spends $2500 in America

Not exactly apples to apples because Toyota enjoys the luxury of nationalized medicine, but I would bet my right arm that Toyota requires their US employees to pay much more in premiums than GM's US employees.

MIKEMIKE = PWNED!
Toyota also has a fraction of the retired workers who collect benefits that GM does. That's murdering GM.

 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Originally posted by: SampSon
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: CPA
Toyota spends about $185 per car on health care costs globally.

GM spends $2500 in America

Not exactly apples to apples because Toyota enjoys the luxury of nationalized medicine, but I would bet my right arm that Toyota requires their US employees to pay much more in premiums than GM's US employees.

MIKEMIKE = PWNED!
Toyota also has a fraction of the retired workers who collect benefits that GM does. That's murdering GM.

JLGatsby = IdiotPWNED!

Average wage for UAW worker = $24.58
Average pay for worker at american honda plant with only 2 years = $22 (maintenance workers =$24)

or another pay scale average...
Union jobs at the Big Three plants pay a dollar or two more an hour - about $26 an hour compared with $24 or $25 an hour for the nonunion jobs at the foreign plants.


yea a whole dollar to 2 more. Thats whats breaking GM :roll:
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: SampSon
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: CPA
Toyota spends about $185 per car on health care costs globally.

GM spends $2500 in America

Not exactly apples to apples because Toyota enjoys the luxury of nationalized medicine, but I would bet my right arm that Toyota requires their US employees to pay much more in premiums than GM's US employees.

MIKEMIKE = PWNED!
Toyota also has a fraction of the retired workers who collect benefits that GM does. That's murdering GM.

JLGatsby = IdiotPWNED!

Average wage for UAW worker = $24.58
Average pay for worker at american honda plant with only 2 years = $22 (maintenance workers =$24)

or another pay scale average...
Union jobs at the Big Three plants pay a dollar or two more an hour - about $26 an hour compared with $24 or $25 an hour for the nonunion jobs at the foreign plants.


yea a whole dollar to 2 more. Thats whats breaking GM :roll:

You're not taking into account efficiencies, henceforth you are the idiot.
 

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
I love how these threads slow down for a little bit while people furiously google for information to make them look smart.
:D

GOOGLE ON!!!
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Originally posted by: JS80
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: SampSon
Originally posted by: JLGatsby
Originally posted by: CPA
Toyota spends about $185 per car on health care costs globally.

GM spends $2500 in America

Not exactly apples to apples because Toyota enjoys the luxury of nationalized medicine, but I would bet my right arm that Toyota requires their US employees to pay much more in premiums than GM's US employees.

MIKEMIKE = PWNED!
Toyota also has a fraction of the retired workers who collect benefits that GM does. That's murdering GM.

JLGatsby = IdiotPWNED!

Average wage for UAW worker = $24.58
Average pay for worker at american honda plant with only 2 years = $22 (maintenance workers =$24)

or another pay scale average...
Union jobs at the Big Three plants pay a dollar or two more an hour - about $26 an hour compared with $24 or $25 an hour for the nonunion jobs at the foreign plants.


yea a whole dollar to 2 more. Thats whats breaking GM :roll:

You're not taking into account efficiencies, henceforth you are the idiot.


What "efficiencies" are you even talking about? I hope it is not plant efficiency as GM has some of the most efficiencient plants.

I backed up my statement, you just dropped some unsupported claim and started calling names? But yea I am the idiot, not you. :laugh:

 

JLGatsby

Banned
Sep 6, 2005
4,525
0
0
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
JLGatsby = IdiotPWNED!

Average wage for UAW worker = $24.58
Average pay for worker at american honda plant with only 2 years = $22 (maintenance workers =$24)

or another pay scale average...
Union jobs at the Big Three plants pay a dollar or two more an hour - about $26 an hour compared with $24 or $25 an hour for the nonunion jobs at the foreign plants.


yea a whole dollar to 2 more. Thats whats breaking GM :roll:

The hourly wage is not an indicator of how much is being spent on employes.

What about healthcare? What about pensions? What about all other benefits?

You cannot use just the salary to make such a stupid statement.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Most of you have no idea how right on JLGatsby is. I have worked for <insert one of the old big 3 here> for the past 6 years in Manufacturing, including production supervision.

First off I will point out a few things that many of you will be shocked to hear.

Every single day at every UAW plant, there is about a 20-25% absenteeism rate. What exactly does that mean? Well simply each plant must carry a workforce 20-25% larger than they are required to run. This also translates into the first hour of production being VERY low while each line supervisor figures out who is missing for the day and calls for one of the people in the ?reserve? pool. Now to the crazy part, sure they do not get paid when they skip work, however their benefits are not cut, so right off the bat the entire company is paying for 25% more cost of health care, life insurance, and all other benefits the company offers. Now, say one day you only get 15% of the people in the plant not showing up for work (in a large plant with 2000 workers, you can have 300-500 people skip work in one day) you are carrying around 150 extra people that are sitting around doing nothing. What does this translate into? People getting paid $28 dollars an hour with benefits to mop a clean floor, or cut the grass outside, or simply take a nap.

Punish these people you say? Sure! However, the UAW contract states that if they bring in proof that they were late or weren?t able to show up for due to a dr. appointment, then they can?t get into trouble. And with how good the health insurance is, it doesn?t cost a dime to get a doctors note that says you had a cough. Any number of excuses can be used here. Besides, even if they are too lazy to get an excuse, nothing can happen to the worker until they are written up 7 times. Oh, and you better not dare write anyone up, because they will make your line run slower when they show up for work next time and you will not make the production numbers you need.

Did I say I was a Production Supervisor? I meant I was a Manufacturing Advisor because if I ever said I was a supervisor, the UAW would have me thrown out of the plant for stepping over my line of duty because no one supervises the UAW, we can only suggest what we think would be the best option. If they don?t agree, then they don?t do it.

I have been flat out told to my face the following words from the people I was the ?supervisor? for: ?I?m not doing a f**ing thing you say, you are too young. Get me the committeeman.?

That is just the hourly line workers, the skilled *laugh* trades are even more ridiculous. There is a skilled trades person for each type of job. If you have a mechanical failure and the guy starts fixing it and an electrical connection is in his way, he will refuse to unplug it even if it is just a simple connector. The reason is if an electrician finds out he unplugged it, he will get written up for taking someone else?s job. So the line sits down, idling up to 70-100 workers for 15-45 minutes at $28 an hour while we wait for an electrician to show up and unplug a connector that takes less than 2 seconds.

Now say a Plant goes from 2 shifts down to 1 shift because no one is buying the cars. Each one of those people on the 2nd shift now get paid 90% of their salary as long as they show up in the morning. From that point a few may be asked to grab a mob bucket and clean while the rest browse the computer in the learning center.

Believe me when I say the UAW is a disease. What I have said above isn?t even the ½ of it.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: SampSon
I love how these threads slow down for a little bit while people furiously google for information to make them look smart.
:D

GOOGLE ON!!!

True. I'm talking from first hand knowledge.

:)

The retirees are what is killing their healthcare costs. Older people use more healthcare.

Oh and as more fuel...toyota does have union plants in north america.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Most of you have no idea how right on JLGatsby is. I have worked for <insert one of the old big 3 here> for the past 6 years in Manufacturing, including production supervision.

First off I will point out a few things that many of you will be shocked to hear.

Every single day at every UAW plant, there is about a 20-25% absenteeism rate. What exactly does that mean? Well simply each plant must carry a workforce 20-25% larger than they are required to run. This also translates into the first hour of production being VERY low while each line supervisor figures out who is missing for the day and calls for one of the people in the ?reserve? pool. Now to the crazy part, sure they do not get paid when they skip work, however their benefits are not cut, so right off the bat the entire company is paying for 25% more cost of health care, life insurance, and all other benefits the company offers. Now, say one day you only get 15% of the people in the plant not showing up for work (in a large plant with 2000 workers, you can have 300-500 people skip work in one day) you are carrying around 150 extra people that are sitting around doing nothing. What does this translate into? People getting paid $28 dollars an hour with benefits to mop a clean floor, or cut the grass outside, or simply take a nap.

Punish these people you say? Sure! However, the UAW contract states that if they bring in proof that they were late or weren?t able to show up for due to a dr. appointment, then they can?t get into trouble. And with how good the health insurance is, it doesn?t cost a dime to get a doctors note that says you had a cough. Any number of excuses can be used here. Besides, even if they are too lazy to get an excuse, nothing can happen to the worker until they are written up 7 times. Oh, and you better not dare write anyone up, because they will make your line run slower when they show up for work next time and you will not make the production numbers you need.

Did I say I was a Production Supervisor? I meant I was a Manufacturing Advisor because if I ever said I was a supervisor, the UAW would have me thrown out of the plant for stepping over my line of duty because no one supervises the UAW, we can only suggest what we think would be the best option. If they don?t agree, then they don?t do it.

I have been flat out told to my face the following words from the people I was the ?supervisor? for: ?I?m not doing a f**ing thing you say, you are too young. Get me the committeeman.?

That is just the hourly line workers, the skilled *laugh* trades are even more ridiculous. There is a skilled trades person for each type of job. If you have a mechanical failure and the guy starts fixing it and an electrical connection is in his way, he will refuse to unplug it even if it is just a simple connector. The reason is if an electrician finds out he unplugged it, he will get written up for taking someone else?s job. So the line sits down, idling up to 70-100 workers for 15-45 minutes at $28 an hour while we wait for an electrician to show up and unplug a connector that takes less than 2 seconds.

Now say a Plant goes from 2 shifts down to 1 shift because no one is buying the cars. Each one of those people on the 2nd shift now get paid 90% of their salary as long as they show up in the morning. From that point a few may be asked to grab a mob bucket and clean while the rest browse the computer in the learning center.

Believe me when I say the UAW is a disease. What I have said above isn?t even the ½ of it.

I'm convinced UAW is the work of the devil.
 

SampSon

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2006
7,160
1
0
Believe me when I say the UAW is a disease. What I have said above isn?t even the ½ of it.
Yea that whole deal they have where workers are "on call" and get 90-100% of their salary is insane.
The UAW and retirees benefits are killing GM, there is no question about it. Thoes who argue different must not have been reading any of the 0238430294 articles written about it in recent time.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Most of you have no idea how right on JLGatsby is. I have worked for <insert one of the old big 3 here> for the past 6 years in Manufacturing, including production supervision.

First off I will point out a few things that many of you will be shocked to hear.

Every single day at every UAW plant, there is about a 20-25% absenteeism rate. What exactly does that mean? Well simply each plant must carry a workforce 20-25% larger than they are required to run. This also translates into the first hour of production being VERY low while each line supervisor figures out who is missing for the day and calls for one of the people in the ?reserve? pool. Now to the crazy part, sure they do not get paid when they skip work, however their benefits are not cut, so right off the bat the entire company is paying for 25% more cost of health care, life insurance, and all other benefits the company offers. Now, say one day you only get 15% of the people in the plant not showing up for work (in a large plant with 2000 workers, you can have 300-500 people skip work in one day) you are carrying around 150 extra people that are sitting around doing nothing. What does this translate into? People getting paid $28 dollars an hour with benefits to mop a clean floor, or cut the grass outside, or simply take a nap.

Punish these people you say? Sure! However, the UAW contract states that if they bring in proof that they were late or weren?t able to show up for due to a dr. appointment, then they can?t get into trouble. And with how good the health insurance is, it doesn?t cost a dime to get a doctors note that says you had a cough. Any number of excuses can be used here. Besides, even if they are too lazy to get an excuse, nothing can happen to the worker until they are written up 7 times. Oh, and you better not dare write anyone up, because they will make your line run slower when they show up for work next time and you will not make the production numbers you need.

Did I say I was a Production Supervisor? I meant I was a Manufacturing Advisor because if I ever said I was a supervisor, the UAW would have me thrown out of the plant for stepping over my line of duty because no one supervises the UAW, we can only suggest what we think would be the best option. If they don?t agree, then they don?t do it.

I have been flat out told to my face the following words from the people I was the ?supervisor? for: ?I?m not doing a f**ing thing you say, you are too young. Get me the committeeman.?

That is just the hourly line workers, the skilled *laugh* trades are even more ridiculous. There is a skilled trades person for each type of job. If you have a mechanical failure and the guy starts fixing it and an electrical connection is in his way, he will refuse to unplug it even if it is just a simple connector. The reason is if an electrician finds out he unplugged it, he will get written up for taking someone else?s job. So the line sits down, idling up to 70-100 workers for 15-45 minutes at $28 an hour while we wait for an electrician to show up and unplug a connector that takes less than 2 seconds.

Now say a Plant goes from 2 shifts down to 1 shift because no one is buying the cars. Each one of those people on the 2nd shift now get paid 90% of their salary as long as they show up in the morning. From that point a few may be asked to grab a mob bucket and clean while the rest browse the computer in the learning center.

Believe me when I say the UAW is a disease. What I have said above isn?t even the ½ of it.
god if i could lazy my ass around all day...

frankly GM would be better off if it went bankrupt and sold off all its assets to the highest bidder.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Most of you have no idea how right on JLGatsby is. I have worked for <insert one of the old big 3 here> for the past 6 years in Manufacturing, including production supervision.

First off I will point out a few things that many of you will be shocked to hear.

Every single day at every UAW plant, there is about a 20-25% absenteeism rate. What exactly does that mean? Well simply each plant must carry a workforce 20-25% larger than they are required to run. This also translates into the first hour of production being VERY low while each line supervisor figures out who is missing for the day and calls for one of the people in the ?reserve? pool. Now to the crazy part, sure they do not get paid when they skip work, however their benefits are not cut, so right off the bat the entire company is paying for 25% more cost of health care, life insurance, and all other benefits the company offers. Now, say one day you only get 15% of the people in the plant not showing up for work (in a large plant with 2000 workers, you can have 300-500 people skip work in one day) you are carrying around 150 extra people that are sitting around doing nothing. What does this translate into? People getting paid $28 dollars an hour with benefits to mop a clean floor, or cut the grass outside, or simply take a nap.

Punish these people you say? Sure! However, the UAW contract states that if they bring in proof that they were late or weren?t able to show up for due to a dr. appointment, then they can?t get into trouble. And with how good the health insurance is, it doesn?t cost a dime to get a doctors note that says you had a cough. Any number of excuses can be used here. Besides, even if they are too lazy to get an excuse, nothing can happen to the worker until they are written up 7 times. Oh, and you better not dare write anyone up, because they will make your line run slower when they show up for work next time and you will not make the production numbers you need.

Did I say I was a Production Supervisor? I meant I was a Manufacturing Advisor because if I ever said I was a supervisor, the UAW would have me thrown out of the plant for stepping over my line of duty because no one supervises the UAW, we can only suggest what we think would be the best option. If they don?t agree, then they don?t do it.

I have been flat out told to my face the following words from the people I was the ?supervisor? for: ?I?m not doing a f**ing thing you say, you are too young. Get me the committeeman.?

That is just the hourly line workers, the skilled *laugh* trades are even more ridiculous. There is a skilled trades person for each type of job. If you have a mechanical failure and the guy starts fixing it and an electrical connection is in his way, he will refuse to unplug it even if it is just a simple connector. The reason is if an electrician finds out he unplugged it, he will get written up for taking someone else?s job. So the line sits down, idling up to 70-100 workers for 15-45 minutes at $28 an hour while we wait for an electrician to show up and unplug a connector that takes less than 2 seconds.

Now say a Plant goes from 2 shifts down to 1 shift because no one is buying the cars. Each one of those people on the 2nd shift now get paid 90% of their salary as long as they show up in the morning. From that point a few may be asked to grab a mob bucket and clean while the rest browse the computer in the learning center.

Believe me when I say the UAW is a disease. What I have said above isn?t even the ½ of it.
god if i could lazy my ass around all day...

frankly GM would be better off if it went bankrupt and sold off all its assets to the highest bidder.

They might as well do a Chapter 11 and try to get rid of the union.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: JLGatsby

That sort of stuff should not be happening when people with actual educations are making less.

That is a completely ignorant statement.

The market will pay what the market will bear. If some dunce from your elementary school ends up making $300k a year by starting a business cleaning septic tanks, then he's earning that money. Don't be jealous just because he picked a different path in life and he ended up making more than you.