GM Food - Seeds of Deception by Jeffrey Smith

[bfdd]

jstorm1, been there done that and while the best strawberries i've ever had were sold to me directly from the people who farmed them, they're not THAT much better that it deserves the price hike, it just doesn't. mushrooms? i like mushrooms, i've had some shitty mushrooms but that has more to do with them just being a shitty kind of mushroom prepared horribly, I'm looking at you Chinese Buffet!

 

[nageov3t]

taste, I think, is a valid but purely subjective argument.

people dying of starvation would probably rather have fast-growing, environment-resisting GM crops that taste a little bland.

 

[bfdd]

taste, I think, is a valid but purely subjective argument.

people dying of starvation would probably rather have fast-growing, environment-resisting GM crops that taste a little bland.

only those of us with to much can care about quality.

 

[JSt0rm]

jstorm1, been there done that and while the best strawberries i've ever had were sold to me directly from the people who farmed them, they're not THAT much better that it deserves the price hike, it just doesn't. mushrooms? i like mushrooms, i've had some shitty mushrooms but that has more to do with them just being a shitty kind of mushroom prepared horribly, I'm looking at you Chinese Buffet!

Well then your not a foodie and your opinion of organic and high end cuisine is useless. Unless you can comprehend the elegance and unreal subtle flavours of seared foie gra with a muskat or a white truffle you can't balk at people spending 20% to 40% more for food because you dont get it.

loki- I don't give a fuck what the 3rd world does. I want to see on the ingredients list if it has gm ingredients. As a consumer I have a right to know what I'm eating. I want to see the pesticides used listed as well.

 

[bfdd]

Well then your not a foodie and your opinion of organic and high end cuisine is useless. Unless you can comprehend the elegance and unreal subtle flavours of seared foie gra with a muskat or a white truffle you can't balk at people spending 20% to 40% more for food because you dont get it.

loki- I don't give a fuck what the 3rd world does. I want to see on the ingredients list if it has gm ingredients. As a consumer I have a right to know what I'm eating. I want to see the pesticides used listed as well.

... yes I'm not a foodie. I love food and I love cooking. My opinion is that there isn't that much of a difference. There just isn't. Make yourself feel better however you want, but on average there isn't a huge difference. Not to mention if you were a REAL foodie and REALLY cared you would grow your own. Nothing tastes as good as home grown. Also, don't give me the "i live in an apt/condo i can't grow" building an indoor hydroponic setup is insanely cheap, hell you can even do indoor soil and it's cheap as fuck.

 

[JSt0rm]

I live in beverly hills. No room for such things but fresh in season strawberries!!! You can smell them from a block away! the difference is not sublime. It hits your tastebuds like a 10ton mack truck. Strawberries from the store taste like straw :twisted:

 

[nageov3t]

I live in beverly hills. No room for such things but fresh in season strawberries!!! You can smell them from a block away! the difference is not sublime. It hits your tastebuds like a 10ton mack truck. Strawberries from the store taste like straw :twisted:

you're also just down the freeway from some of the best farms in the country.

I'd imagine the difference is going to be less noticeable for people living in areas where most produce is going to be trucked in from a long distance away no matter what.

 

[blackangst1]

jstorm1, been there done that and while the best strawberries i've ever had were sold to me directly from the people who farmed them, they're not THAT much better that it deserves the price hike, it just doesn't. mushrooms? i like mushrooms, i've had some shitty mushrooms but that has more to do with them just being a shitty kind of mushroom prepared horribly, I'm looking at you Chinese Buffet!

I dont know about jst0rm, but for me, I gladly pay more for unmodified, un-chemical laden food. Worth every penny.

 

[bfdd]

I live in beverly hills. No room for such things but fresh in season strawberries!!! You can smell them from a block away! the difference is not sublime. It hits your tastebuds like a 10ton mack truck. Strawberries from the store taste like straw :twisted:

.. so you live in Los Angeles County too. Again, there's not that big of a difference. Not to mention you can generally just LOOK at a strawberry and tell if it's going to taste good.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I live in beverly hills. No room for such things but fresh in season strawberries!!! You can smell them from a block away! the difference is not sublime. It hits your tastebuds like a 10ton mack truck. Strawberries from the store taste like straw :twisted:

Yes , Your making mouth water. I love wild black rasberries also . The woods behind my house are full of them. Every year I wait on August to come around . To pluck those berries from their thorny vine. Its alot more work now for me but wife helps me now. I make a great black rasberry Jam . Just thinking about makes water run in mouth. You be surprized how many strawberries you can get from a 20x20 patch of ground. Best is you do not need green thumb to reap a great harvest. Mushrooms abond also in our woods , I being the only one who eats them in my family so its easy harvest . Bourbon steak smoothered with Mushrooms and onions . god my mouth is watering.

 

[Nemesis 1]

.. so you live in Los Angeles County too. Again, there's not that big of a difference. Not to mention you can generally just LOOK at a strawberry and tell if it's going to taste good.

So true . If the strawberries are size of childs fist they are uneatable in my book

 

[HGC]

You'd rather eat food with feces residue?

Animal dung fertilizer over high tech chemical poisons? Most definitely.

 

[HGC]

That is playing with fire, like poking something with a stick to see how it will react.

I think that is the main case against GM food. You are altering food fundamentally. No one knows the long term effects.

 

[TechNyou]

Hm. Nice self promotion. First post too!

Im sure its unbiased though

Definitely blatant self promotion on my part - the TechNyou bit anyway. I have nothing to do with the Academics review site. But as TechNyou is government funded and I get no benefit out of it, I sleep at night. There is some good discussion on your site, so I will contribute here and there where appropriate - no self promotion though unless it is relevant to my own research and work, which is science communication. That is we do a lot of public engagement so I have an insight into public attitudes and the respective drivers of these attitudes which can be relevant to these sorts of discusssions. By the way as for bias, our job is not to convince individuals of anything about the science or how it should be used. We just provide info and facilitate the dialogue. What opinions people have or choices they make about how a technology should be used is of no concern to us. In the case of GM, there is too much misinformation out there distorting the debate (from both sides of a very polarised issue). This makes it difficult for anyone to make an informed choice, so I try and rectify this where possible.

Jason
TechNyou

 

[Fingolfin269]

Animal dung fertilizer over high tech chemical poisons? Most definitely.

Why? Just because?

 

[Ancalagon44]

It isn't the same thing. When I cross pollinate two species I am changing the species but I am still staying within the limits of what could happen in nature. When a scientist manipulates the actual genes they are doing things that nature most likely never would have allowed to occur. Most even comment that they are not sure how the genes they are changing even work. That is playing with fire, like poking something with a stick to see how it will react.

When you cross polinate two species, can you guarantee that the result will be exactly what you expect? No, you cant. It may or may not have qualities from both plants, and you may get dormant genes only visible in later generations.

Besides, scientists dont simply change random genes and hope for the best. They investigate what particular genes do and then conduct tests to make sure that the change was for the better. They dont just poke around randomly.

Until I see organic food retailing at the cost of normal food, I wont buy it. Right now, its a premium product that carries a premium price, sold only to those who can afford it, while technology with the potential to end hunger is sidelined because "its not natural". Please.

A reduction in the amount of pesticides used can be achieved using GM crops anyway, since they tend to be more pest resistant.

 

[bigi]

Someone needs a lesson in physiology.

If you think humans take random DNA from their GI tract and incorporate them into their own genome, then youre a fucking dumbass.

Someone needs a lesson in spelling.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How do you know what can happen in nature? What are you basing this post on?

How about a couple billion years of evolutionary history and a whole lot of genetic research?

Plants don't pick up fish DNA.

Regardless, this isn't really the issue, however there are some legitimate concerns.

First, when a genetically modified plant is openly pollinated, the effects on the ecosystem are not well known. We have a nasty habit of doing things which seem innocuous at the time, but screw us in the butt because we didn't think of the ramifications. If a wild type plant is suddenly given the ability to out compete others species then that screws the pooch. Look up purple loostrife. It's an introduced species that's destroying our wetlands. We don't need more of that sort if thing.

Second, the robustness of a species depends upon diversity, a valuable food source with only a few variations is a recipe for disaster. Because an organism is immune to a particular disease doesn't mean that it always will, nor that a new one won't develop. In that case most of the crop in question will fail, because we're dealing with a shallow gene pool.

Third, there is the problem of patents. It's all well and good to say that a crop can produce more, however if a plant is designed so it is infertile then that requires a people to be forever dependent on a company for seed. If there is a disruption due to economics or supply, there is no carrying over from the last crop.

Fourth, all the above depends on several things. Horses don't pollinate, qualities like taste do not offer a survival advantage in the wild.

In the end it all depends on the particulars of the modification, and it's implementation.

We're far from discussing that intelligently it seems.

 

[bfdd]

Animal dung fertilizer over high tech chemical poisons? Most definitely.

are you comparing fertilizer to pesticides? GM plants require LESS pesticide because they've been modified to be more resistant to pests, not to mention for "organic" pesticide you need like 4 or 5 times the amount rather than those "high tech chemical poison" kinds and hey guess what you end up putting more of around your plant? yeah chemical poisons regardless if they're "organic" or not. you don't just think man creates poisons do you?

I think that is the main case against GM food. You are altering food fundamentally. No one knows the long term effects.

you have no idea what you're talking about. they don't just change shit for the sake of changing it, they do monsterous amounts of research on what changing certain genes do.

 

[Nemesis 1]

are you comparing fertilizer to pesticides? GM plants require LESS pesticide because they've been modified to be more resistant to pests, not to mention for "organic" pesticide you need like 4 or 5 times the amount rather than those "high tech chemical poison" kinds and hey guess what you end up putting more of around your plant? yeah chemical poisons regardless if they're "organic" or not. you don't just think man creates poisons do you?



you have no idea what you're talking about. they don't just change shit for the sake of changing it, they do monsterous amounts of research on what changing certain genes do.

Don't play with mother nature disturbing the food chain is really stupid and unwise. Insects need food also. Blite weeds out the weak and creates the strong

 

[nonlnear]

Don't play with mother nature disturbing the food chain is really stupid and unwise. Insects need food also. Blite weeds out the weak and creates the strong

Tell that to the American Chestnut.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Hay I am just passing time hear . Eating my popcorn as tears stream from my eyes.

 

[bfdd]

You guys realize fucking pigs that we eat are way different than pigs humans ate 50 years ago? 100 years ago? so on? Same with cattle, chicken, etc. We bred them to be certain ways to better suit our needs, we're doing the same with the plants we eat. I don't really see a problem with it. You know all those dog breeds we've created over the years? Yeah all the same species, we bred them for different qualities. You guys seriously need to realize that we've been doing this for YEARS.

 

[HGC]

Why? Just because?

Because pesticides are neurotoxins and carcinogenic.

 

[HGC]

are you comparing fertilizer to pesticides? GM plants require LESS pesticide because they've been modified to be more resistant to pests, not to mention for "organic" pesticide you need like 4 or 5 times the amount rather than those "high tech chemical poison" kinds and hey guess what you end up putting more of around your plant? yeah chemical poisons regardless if they're "organic" or not. you don't just think man creates poisons do you?



you have no idea what you're talking about. they don't just change shit for the sake of changing it, they do monsterous amounts of research on what changing certain genes do.

I noticed that fertilizer and pesticide are not the same. That was the way the question was put to me, so I answered in those terms.

I don't share your faith in the "monsterous amounts of research" done by interested parties.

They might have a case that there are no toxic effects seen over a few years, though there is conflicting research even on that point. Long term safety after fundamentally altering the food supply? At best they can say that it has not been proven to be unsafe. With the stakes so high, I think a conservative approach is warranted.