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Global ""Warming""

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stormkroe said:
I've finally gotten a diverse set of locations to install small (1600 watt) wind mills. They're native 48vdc, I'm going to tie them directly into hot water tanks, no rectifiers, batteries, or anything. I hope that 6 months of logging output will yield good results. Anything over 30% of rated and I can proceed to the next stage: 500+ of them for large micro generation. You can top out at 1 megawatt and still be a micro, I can do the whole project for less than $350k, it would pay for itself in 2-3 years. It's a great experiment, I'm glad to finally be in the 'doing something' phase.
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Interesting. But I have to ask, hot water heaters?

Are you using steam generation? Or do you need a large amount of hot water for some chemical process?
 
Paratus said:
Interesting. But I have to ask, hot water heaters?

Are you using steam generation? Or do you need a large amount of hot water for some chemical process?
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The purpose of the water heaters is simply to give a load the system. Although I will use a few of them as radiant supplemental heat, it's purely to log the output, and it's cheap and problem free (no inverters, batteries, rectifiers, etc to fail).
The average wind speed here is 12km/h, and it's very 'peaky', which is what you want for wind. For example, one day of 0 and one day of 20km/h is preferable to 2 days of 10km/h because of the output curve.
Also, the small units start up at 5km/h and sustain at 3km/h, allowing them to scavenge lots of power where an enormous mill wouldn't even be turning.
 
Greenman said:
That's completely wrong. A modern conservative want's everyone to succeed. Success is contagious, it spreads. What we need are more successful people, lots more.
The condition you're describing is greed, and that has nothing to do with conservatism. Greed is the belief that hording your boundless excess makes your life better, it's the belief that others aren't as good or worthy as you are. It's an insatiable desire to show everyone that you're better than them. Greed my friend, is the poison of society.
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I love you Greenman; I love your ideals and intentions, but the simple fact is that you can't help people succeed if you don't know why they fail. That requires self knowledge you resist. You do not viscerally know that we hate ourselves and do not want to succeed or wish anybody else will. You are unaware of a side of the truth about yourself and can't therefore see that the side you deny spoils everything you try. The world wouldn't be in the mess it's in if the answers were easy.
 
Paratus said:
Which natural variances?

And how would you determine their effect vs mans effect?
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Which man variances?

And how would you determine their effect vs nature's efforts?


If you have to ask the question, then one may not have a full grasp of climate variance over time. I also am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that your position today is that natural variance of climate stopped at the end of the LIA and that man is the only change initiator of climate since then?
 
dphantom said:
Which man variances?

And how would you determine their effect vs nature's efforts?


If you have to ask the question, then one may not have a full grasp of climate variance over time. I also am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that your position today is that natural variance of climate stopped at the end of the LIA and that man is the only change initiator of climate since then?
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I'm simply asking you to explain to me which natural variances contributed to the end of the LIA since you said natural variances ended the LIA

I am also asking you to tell me how you would go about determining the effect of mans influence on the end of the LIA as you said mans effect was as yet undetermined.
 
Paratus said:
Which natural variances?
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Historical natural variation of global temperatures.

Temperature_swings_11000_yrs.jpg
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
For the life of me I can't understand where you're coming from or the point you're trying to make.
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He's asking you to name specific sources of natural variation that you believe contributed to recent temperature increases. He'll probably then show you how they can't account for it. That seemed like the clear intent to me, at least.
 
eskimospy said:
He's asking you to name specific sources of natural variation that you believe contributed to recent temperature increases. He'll probably then show you how they can't account for it. That seemed like the clear intent to me, at least.
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I posted a historical record of natural temperature variations. Some of the primary drivers of natural variability are changes related to solar energy from the Sun, Earth's orbit, volcanic eruptions, El Nino events, and ocean currents. The $64 question is how much of current warming is natural variation vs. AGW. I haven't seen any research that definitively answers this question. Have you?
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
I posted a historical record of natural temperature variations. Some of the primary drivers of natural variability are changes related to solar energy from the Sun, Earth's orbit, volcanic eruptions, El Nino events, and ocean currents. The $64 question is how much of current warming is natural variation vs. AGW. I haven't seen any research that definitively answers this question. Have you?
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That's not very relevant though. You need to show that those natural factors have been increasing during the current period. If I remember correctly, overall natural variations in recent years have actually provided a net cooling effect.

Regardless, that's what he's asking you for: Name the specific natural variations that have happened in recent years that you believe account for the increased heat.
 
eskimospy said:
That's not very relevant though. You need to show that those natural factors have been increasing during the current period. If I remember correctly, overall natural variations in recent years have actually provided a net cooling effect.

Regardless, that's what he's asking you for: Name the specific natural variations that have happened in recent years that you believe account for the increased heat.
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The better question is to determine what are the mechanics involved in natural variation first and then the "left over" signal if you will could be an effect man has caused.

There is no definitive determination of either natural or man variation. The most current data indicate an ECS of 1.3-1.6C. ECS may even be lower as further research provides a better understand of our climate.
 
dphantom said:
The better question is to determine what are the mechanics involved in natural variation first and then the "left over" signal if you will could be an effect man has caused.

There is no definitive determination of either natural or man variation. The most current data indicate an ECS of 1.3-1.6C. ECS may even be lower as further research provides a better understand of our climate.
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Well if you're saying that natural variation has been a significant contributing factor then surely you have some specific natural forcers in mind along with a basic idea of how much they have been contributing though, right?

I mean if not, how could you say natural variation was the cause?
 
eskimospy said:
Well if you're saying that natural variation has been a significant contributing factor then surely you have some specific natural forcers in mind along with a basic idea of how much they have been contributing though, right?

I mean if not, how could you say natural variation was the cause?
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See DSF comments above.
 
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