Global Warming Scientists Trapped in Antarctic Ice

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,069
55,594
136
And uclers are caused by stress. Amirite?

Lol.

Do you want me to start listing all the times where the vast majority of experts agreed in something and were right?

There is a reason why the consensus is so strong. There is a reason why virtually no published papers deny AGW, there is a reason why the deniers sit on blogs and issue fact free declarations from behind right wing think tanks. They can't compete in the real scientific community because they are peddling bullshit.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,731
428
126
The argument concerning AGW is not to prove that CO2 is the main cause but to show how high CO2 ppm has a forcing factor on various causes. See the NAS final report for details.



It is also fun that when someone points to something showing less severe weather events, someone will say "nah nah, regional, not global" but when someone wants to showcase the consequences of global warming they always come with a regional example.

Of course the satellite data for the last 17 years show this:



 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Lol.

Do you want me to start listing all the times where the vast majority of experts agreed in something and were right?

There is a reason why the consensus is so strong. There is a reason why virtually no published papers deny AGW, there is a reason why the deniers sit on blogs and issue fact free declarations from behind right wing think tanks. They can't compete in the real scientific community because they are peddling bullshit.

There is no consensus on the consensus.
http://judithcurry.com/2012/10/28/climate-change-no-consensus-on-consensus/
The manufactured consensus of the IPCC has had the unintended consequences of distorting the science, elevating the voices of scientists that dispute the consensus, and motivating actions by the consensus scientists and their supporters that have diminished the public’s trust in the IPCC.
This from one of the leading climate science experts. So we can believe her or a lying policy wonk like Eskimolie. I know who i put trust in and it isn't Eskimo.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
0
Lol.

Do you want me to start listing all the times where the vast majority of experts agreed in something and were right?

There is a reason why the consensus is so strong. There is a reason why virtually no published papers deny AGW, there is a reason why the deniers sit on blogs and issue fact free declarations from behind right wing think tanks. They can't compete in the real scientific community because they are peddling bullshit.

So 95% of the time they're right all the time?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,069
55,594
136
There is no consensus on the consensus.
http://judithcurry.com/2012/10/28/climate-change-no-consensus-on-consensus/

This from one of the leading climate science experts. So we can believe her or a lying policy wonk like Eskimolie. I know who i put trust in and it isn't Eskimo.

Or, we could look at empirical analysis of the science being generated by the entire community and see how much of the actual research is disputing AGW. The answer? Virtually none. Additionally, this analysis has nothing to do with the IPCC, but just looks at climate science as a whole.

I would love it if you suddenly decided to accept the judgment of climate experts. Will you commit to this?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
To return to the actual topic, the climate scientist that was so stupid he actually got stuck in the ice down in the Antarctic, here's a nice article.

http://climateaudit.org/2014/01/15/ship-of-fools/

Like many others, I’ve been intrigued by the misadventures of the Ship of Fools. Dozens of tourist vessels visit the Antarctic without becoming trapped by ice. So it’s entirely valid to inquire into why the one tourist vessel led by a “climate scientist” became trapped by ice.

The leader of the expedition, Chris Turney (also a secondary Climategate correspondent and co-signer of Lewandowsky’s multisignatory letter in the Conversation), claimed that the incident could not have been predicted. He said that they were trapped by a sudden “breakout” of multi-year ice (“fast ice”) that had previously been part of the ice shelf and that there was no way that they could have anticipated this. Turney’s claim has been uncritically accepted by the climate community e.g. Turner of the British Antarctica Survey here.

However, like other recent claims by Turney, this claim is bogus. In fact, Turney was trapped by sea ice that had been mobile throughout December 2013. This can be easily seen by examining readily available MODIS imagery (see MODIS here) leading up to the incident, as I’ll do in today’s post.

Turney’s Fanciful Nature Article
With escalating derision towards Turney’s expedition, Nature rushed another self-serving account of the events into print on January 6, apparently without the slightest peer review, quality control or due diligence.

In this article, Turney’s claims became even more fanciful and untrue.

Turney falsely stated that the Akademik Shokalskiy was an “ice breaker”, even though it was merely a passenger ship that had been ice strengthened.

Turney falsely claimed that the “science case” for the tour had been “approved by the New Zealand Department of Conservation, the Tasmanian Parks and Wildlife Service and the Australian Antarctic Division”, an assertion that was quickly denied by the head of the Australian Antarctic Division, who accused Turney of misrepresentation and said that he had written to Turney asking him to cease such misrepresentations.

In respect to the entrapment incident, Turney re-iterated the false assertion that they had been trapped by a “mass breakout” of “multiyear ice”...............

Good stuff and a fun read.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,520
48,008
136
I got curious if the circle jerk that overtook this thread was still ongoing. Looks like it.


Anyone posted a copy of Turney's Capt license? Because aside from the agenda driven debate many are trying to make this about, Turney acting as the Capt is the only way he is responsible for a ship becoming stuck in the ice. Anything else is still just pure wishful agenda meeting the keyboard.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,069
55,594
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One wonders how many of the 95% are these blatantly dishonest pseudo-scientists.

Speaking of use of blatantly dishonest pseudo-scientists to push a political agenda, that reminds me of the list of 400 'scientists' that James Inhofe said denied the existence of man caused global warming. They included things like TV weathermen, economists, social scientists, and a self described polar bear expert.

Generally when you hear the 95% numbers they are talking about climatologists specifically, the real experts on...well... climate. Deniers usually come from other scientific fields.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
I don't think we have hundreds of years before we're seeing serious environmental consequences from high atmospheric CO2. Let's consider a simple aquatic system. DIC is governed by a simple continuum:
CO2 + H2O ::: H2CO3 ::: H+ + HCO3 ::: CO32- + 2H-
Hopefully basic chemistry will overcome my Nook's font limitations.

You're talking about time, but you don't have any rates in there. All you have is your "ideas". It doesn't matter about what you think. All that matters are correlations that are experimentally reproducible and reliable for the system that is to be tested, which is the earth. Right now, the "climate scientists" don't have these.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,069
55,594
136
You're talking about time, but you don't have any rates in there. All you have is your "ideas". It doesn't matter about what you think. All that matters are correlations that are experimentally reproducible and reliable for the system that is to be tested, which is the earth. Right now, the "climate scientists" don't have these.

How would you propose conducting such an experiment?
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I got curious if the circle jerk that overtook this thread was still ongoing. Looks like it.


Anyone posted a copy of Turney's Capt license? Because aside from the agenda driven debate many are trying to make this about, Turney acting as the Capt is the only way he is responsible for a ship becoming stuck in the ice. Anything else is still just pure wishful agenda meeting the keyboard.

He was the head of the expedition. Try reading the article, it's pretty funny seeing how often he got caught in his lies.
http://climateaudit.org/2014/01/15/ship-of-fools/
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
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He was the head of the expedition. Try reading the article, it's pretty funny seeing how often he got caught in his lies.
http://climateaudit.org/2014/01/15/ship-of-fools/
What strikes me as a little odd is that Antarctica set a new all-time record for sea ice extent a few weeks earlier. Surely a climate scientist would know this and make assurances that the ship proceed with extreme caution. Regardless, I chalk this one up as "shit happens"...but it was kind of funny (assuming of course it's OK for me to think so since nobody was hurt or died).
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
You're talking about time, but you don't have any rates in there. All you have is your "ideas". It doesn't matter about what you think. All that matters are correlations that are experimentally reproducible and reliable for the system that is to be tested, which is the earth. Right now, the "climate scientists" don't have these.

How would you propose conducting such an experiment?

Actually these experiments are done all the time. Water without a protein skim will diffuse CO2 to capacity near the surface based on temperature and atmospheric concentration within minutes. Diffusion within water is slower, but injecting CO2 (or any acid or alkaline) into a typical home aquarium, even without circulation, will go to equilibrium within a few minutes. Lakes and streams are routinely measured throughout the day, and softwater streams or lakes with clear water and abundant plant life may well swing from PH 8.5 to PH 6.0 over the course of a single day and night as photosynthesis drives PH up (by removing CO2) and respiration drives PH down (by adding CO2.) This is of interest to far more than just climatology because plants (especially those unable to use bicarbonates) cannot compete with algae at high PH, so a body of water with abundant nutrients but without adequate buffering capacity can be overrun with algae, which in turn inhibits the plants (both directly by mechanically reducing the light the plant receives due to its coating of algae/algae suspended in the water column and indirectly by allowing the algae to produce more allelochemicals. This was one of the reasons behind requiring comprehensive scrubbers on coal-fired power plants as the acidity from acid rain (due to sulfuric acid formed by the sulfur released from the coal) was killing softwater lakes. Amphibians couldn't reproduce, some fish would have reduced or deformed spawn, crustacea would be wiped out or severely reduced (due to the much greater energy cost to build shells in calcium-depleted water), and plants would be choked out by and replaced by algae. Not pretty. Even less pretty are the mountain streams converted to liquid deserts by acidification. I've seen streams where literally not even most bacteria can live, due to drainage over acidic mining tailings and to a much lesser extent natural shale deposits. It's a hell of a lot better today than it was forty years ago - even the Copper Hill area drainage is bouncing back - but where too much acid is introduced, devastation follows.

Diffusion of gases is very slow when compared to diffusion of gases in atmosphere, but we're talking minutes to hours (depending on things like gradient and water depth versus surface area) rather than years or even days. The equation I described happens continuously every day on any body of water with algae or plants, and to a degree in any body of water with any life (in which case respiration drives PH down and diffusion into the atmosphere helps buffer it.)

Really ought to have someone else explain it as chemistry was always my weakest subject, but the reaction here is well known, well documented, and not at all controversial. I simply don't have the chemistry to tell you at what atmospheric CO2 concentration will effect a body of water with a given buffering capacity and bioload mix.
 

GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,731
428
126
Really ought to have someone else explain it as chemistry was always my weakest subject, but the reaction here is well known, well documented, and not at all controversial. I simply don't have the chemistry to tell you at what atmospheric CO2 concentration will effect a body of water with a given buffering capacity and bioload mix.

At the moment is very hard to answer that kind of questions since there is really no data set for the ocean pH and since the ocean acts as a buffer solution and pH is logarithmic it will take considerable CO2 to acidify the oceans.

I've seen people saying that man made CO2 is responsible by the change of 0.02 units per decade, but there is really no tool to accurately measure ocean pH.

There is even a prize to design an ocean pH sensor.

http://oceanhealth.xprize.org/competition-details/overview

"OVERVIEW
The Challenge: Improve Our Understanding of Ocean Acidification

The Wendy Schmidt Ocean Health XPRIZE is a $2 million global competition that challenges teams of engineers, scientists and innovators from all over the world to create pH sensor technology that will affordably, accurately and efficiently measure ocean chemistry from its shallowest waters… to its deepest depths.

There are two prize purses available (teams may compete for, and win, both purses):

A. $1,000,000 Accuracy award – Performance focused ($750,000 First Place, $250,000 Second Place): To the teams that navigate the entire competition to produce the most accurate, stable and precise pH sensors under a variety of tests.

B. $1,000,000 Affordability award – Cost and Use focused ($750,000 First Place, $250,000 Second Place): To the teams that produce the least expensive, easy-to-use, accurate, stable, and precise pH sensors under a variety of tests.

The Need for the Prize

Problem

Our ocean are currently in the midst of a silent crisis. Rising levels of atmospheric carbon are resulting in higher levels of acidity. The potential biological, ecological, biogeochemical and societal implications are staggering. The absorption of human CO2 emissions is already having a profound impact on ocean chemistry, impacting the health of shellfish, fisheries, coral reefs, other ecosystems and our very survival.

The Market Failure

While ocean acidification is well documented in a few temperate ocean waters, little is known in high latitudes, coastal areas and the deep sea, and most current pH sensor technologies are too costly, imprecise, or unstable to allow for sufficient knowledge on the state of ocean acidification.

Solution

Breakthrough sensors are urgently needed for scientists, managers and industry to turn the tide on ocean acidification and begin healing our ocean. A competition to incentivize the creation of these sensors for the study and monitoring of ocean acidification’s impact on marine ecosystems and ocean health will drive industry forward by providing the data needed to take action and produce results."

Ocean acidification and ocean temperature rising have basically no data and no instruments to acquire that data reliably, so lots of theory and few facts.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/2-mi...-tools-monitor-ocean-acidification-8C11097122

""It is only in the last decade where scientists have begun to study ocean acidification, so our knowledge is really limited still," Paul Bunje, a senior director with the X Prize Foundation who is the lead scientist behind the ocean health competition, told NBC News.

"But we do know that we don't know enough, and we don't have the tools needed to even begin to measure it sufficiently — much less to begin to respond, to adapt to it, to implement local policies that might allow ocean acidification to be less harmful," he said.

Just as the $10 million Ansari X Prize spurred innovation in the private space industry, the Ocean Health X Prize aims to jump-start new business ventures dedicated to sensors that can dramatically improve understanding of the oceans, including acidification.

The open ocean is acidifying at about .02 pH units per decade, according to according to Richard Feeley, a marine scientist and leading researcher on ocean acidification at NOAA's Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle. "That means that you have to have an instrument that you can rely on to be both precise and accurate for a very, very long period of time, so that you can actually see that signal," he told NBC News."
 
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GaiaHunter

Diamond Member
Jul 13, 2008
3,731
428
126
The ocean buffer system.

CO2+H2O → H2CO3–> CO2 + H2O
H2CO3- → H+ + HCO3- → H2CO3
Ca(CO3)2 + 2 H+ → Ca2+ +2HCO3

Gas mixing with water.
p.a=k.ha*x.a henry's law
K.h(t)=K.h(t.0) *e^(-c*(1/t-1/t.0)) correction to coefficient.
E=E0-2.303*RT/F *(pH)

Eyeballing these equations something tells me it is going to take a more CO2 than what we are producing to be worrisome (as in a couple of orders of magnitude).

We also know that mollusks and carbonate dependent organisms evolved when the CO2 concentration was over 8,000ppm and that microorganisms follow the Monod equation.

873429b3615d9af7641b2b9dbe96cf0b.png


where:
μ is the specific growth rate of the microorganisms
μmax is the maximum specific growth rate of the microorganisms
S is the concentration of the limiting substrate for growth
Ks is the "half-velocity constant"—the value of S when μ/μmax = 0.5
μmax and Ks are empirical coefficients to the Monod equation. They will differ between species and based on the ambient environmental conditions
(source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monod_equation).

i'm not a biologist but this seem to me to imply microorganisms will like those Ca2+ ions for their shells.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,520
48,008
136
He was the head of the expedition. Try reading the article, it's pretty funny seeing how often he got caught in his lies.
http://climateaudit.org/2014/01/15/ship-of-fools/


Nice to see your usual penchant for objective sources continues to serve you well.

I guess I'll say it again:

Anyone posted a copy of Turney's Capt license? Because aside from the agenda driven debate many are trying to make this about, Turney acting as the Capt is the only way he is responsible for a ship becoming stuck in the ice. Anything else is still just pure wishful agenda meeting the keyboard.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Actually these experiments are done all the time. Water without a protein skim will diffuse CO2 to capacity near the surface based on temperature and atmospheric concentration within minutes. Diffusion within water is slower, but injecting CO2 (or any acid or alkaline) into a typical home aquarium, even without circulation, will go to equilibrium within a few minutes. Lakes and streams are routinely measured throughout the day, and softwater streams or lakes with clear water and abundant plant life may well swing from PH 8.5 to PH 6.0 over the course of a single day and night as photosynthesis drives PH up (by removing CO2) and respiration drives PH down (by adding CO2.) This is of interest to far more than just climatology because plants (especially those unable to use bicarbonates) cannot compete with algae at high PH, so a body of water with abundant nutrients but without adequate buffering capacity can be overrun with algae, which in turn inhibits the plants (both directly by mechanically reducing the light the plant receives due to its coating of algae/algae suspended in the water column and indirectly by allowing the algae to produce more allelochemicals. This was one of the reasons behind requiring comprehensive scrubbers on coal-fired power plants as the acidity from acid rain (due to sulfuric acid formed by the sulfur released from the coal) was killing softwater lakes. Amphibians couldn't reproduce, some fish would have reduced or deformed spawn, crustacea would be wiped out or severely reduced (due to the much greater energy cost to build shells in calcium-depleted water), and plants would be choked out by and replaced by algae. Not pretty. Even less pretty are the mountain streams converted to liquid deserts by acidification. I've seen streams where literally not even most bacteria can live, due to drainage over acidic mining tailings and to a much lesser extent natural shale deposits. It's a hell of a lot better today than it was forty years ago - even the Copper Hill area drainage is bouncing back - but where too much acid is introduced, devastation follows.

Diffusion of gases is very slow when compared to diffusion of gases in atmosphere, but we're talking minutes to hours (depending on things like gradient and water depth versus surface area) rather than years or even days. The equation I described happens continuously every day on any body of water with algae or plants, and to a degree in any body of water with any life (in which case respiration drives PH down and diffusion into the atmosphere helps buffer it.)

Really ought to have someone else explain it as chemistry was always my weakest subject, but the reaction here is well known, well documented, and not at all controversial. I simply don't have the chemistry to tell you at what atmospheric CO2 concentration will effect a body of water with a given buffering capacity and bioload mix.

So you are saying the reaction rate is instant in that case equilibruim matters alot mire. So where is the equilibruim data?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
The ocean buffer system.

CO2+H2O → H2CO3–> CO2 + H2O
H2CO3- → H+ + HCO3- → H2CO3
Ca(CO3)2 + 2 H+ → Ca2+ +2HCO3

Gas mixing with water.
p.a=k.ha*x.a henry's law
K.h(t)=K.h(t.0) *e^(-c*(1/t-1/t.0)) correction to coefficient.
E=E0-2.303*RT/F *(pH)

Eyeballing these equations something tells me it is going to take a more CO2 than what we are producing to be worrisome (as in a couple of orders of magnitude).

We also know that mollusks and carbonate dependent organisms evolved when the CO2 concentration was over 8,000ppm and that microorganisms follow the Monod equation.

873429b3615d9af7641b2b9dbe96cf0b.png


where:
μ is the specific growth rate of the microorganisms
μmax is the maximum specific growth rate of the microorganisms
S is the concentration of the limiting substrate for growth
Ks is the "half-velocity constant"—the value of S when μ/μmax = 0.5
μmax and Ks are empirical coefficients to the Monod equation. They will differ between species and based on the ambient environmental conditions
(source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monod_equation).

i'm not a biologist but this seem to me to imply microorganisms will like those Ca2+ ions for their shells.
Thanks, Gaia for the informative posts. As I mentioned, I just don't have the chemistry skills to really get a handle on ocean acidification. Softwater acidification is pretty straightforward and I've seen the effects of that first hand, but the ocean has massive buffering capacity and it's simply over my head to understand even orders of magnitude reactions. As I understand it the problem as studied relates to reef-building corals and to a lesser extent most crustacea which rely on carbonate ions to build shells. As seawater acidifies, the equation moves left, with fewer carbonate ions and more dissolved CO2. It's difficult for me to make a judgement on the magnitude of the problem as so much of the literature is clearly alarmist, but the ecological importance of reefs is hard to overstate. (Although it can be done; one paper below puts the number of people who rely on reefs for their daily food and income at 500,000 million - about one in twelve for the whole Earth.) Some links on the matter:
http://www.pnas.org/content/105/45/17442.long
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification?
http://oceanacidification.net/docs/OAA_Factsheet.pdf
http://ocean.si.edu/corals-and-coral-reefs
According to many things I've read, we've lost roughly half the world's coral reefs in the last half century. (That is, the reefs are still there but the actual reef-building coral animals are dead and gone, leaving hollow shells behind.) That's a pretty major ecological disaster.

Interestingly, there are some hopeful signs. Scientists studying Palau's reefs found that reefs in more acidic waters (in this case having more to do with restricted circulation) were actually healthier and more diverse than other Palau reefs. Even acidities considered as zero productivity if not lethal had healthy reefs. To me anyway that suggests that absent other stressors, reef-building coral can survive high acidity and even prosper. However, another theory is that the unique circulation conditions of Palau led to genetic mutations in Palau coral to tolerate the unusually long periods of water being held over the reefs, where respiration and run-off acidify the water. (History buffs may also recognize Palau as Peleliu, location of the Marines' two month battle often termed the hardest of the war and controversial in its lack of valid strategic purpose. Palau's unique tidal structure was a complete surprise on the initial invasion.) Most coral reefs have much greater water exchange, leading to very stable conditions and therefore animals which put relatively little energy into mechanisms for coping with swings in hardness or PH.
http://phys.org/news/2014-01-coral-reefs-palau-surprisingly-resistant.html

Also, Anthony et al found in their controlled studies (the PNAS link above) that acropora was actually 40% more productive in the moderately increased temperature/moderately increased CO2 tank. Porites though (the majority of the big plate corals if memory serves) were severely inhibited in productivity with all increased CO2 levels.
Interestingly, productivity of Acropora was enhanced under the intermediate, warm CO2 dosing regime but was suppressed in Porites (Fig. 1 E and H). Again, productivity patterns were driven by variation in net rates of photosynthesis only, and dark rate of respiration varied by <10%. In Acropora, intermediate-CO2 dosing had no impact on productivity at low temperature, but was 40% increased in the warm treatment. At the highest CO2 dosing, however, productivity dropped to near zero for both temperature groups (Fig. 1E). The significant interaction between CO2 and temperature in the productivity response for Acropora (see ANOVA results in Table S1) was driven mainly by the high productivity maximum in the warm, intermediate-CO2 regime. In Porites, productivity was marginally enhanced by warming at the control CO2, but fell by 80% in the warm, intermediate-CO2 group—opposite to the pattern for Acropora (Fig. 1H). High CO2 led to a 30% drop in productivity in Porites (relative to the control) in cool conditions and dropped to near zero at the highest CO2 dosing, analogous to the pattern for Acropora.


Nice to see your usual penchant for objective sources continues to serve you well.

I guess I'll say it again:

Anyone posted a copy of Turney's Capt license? Because aside from the agenda driven debate many are trying to make this about, Turney acting as the Capt is the only way he is responsible for a ship becoming stuck in the ice. Anything else is still just pure wishful agenda meeting the keyboard.
Yeah - you may want to say it a few more times if you really want to sell your vision of Turney as hapless victim of an incompetent crew.

So you are saying the reaction rate is instant in that case equilibruim matters alot mire. So where is the equilibruim data?
Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean by equilibrium data. The reaction rate is not instantaneous, but can be very fast depending on the amount of introduced acidity (via atmospheric CO2 or other introduced acids) and the water's buffering capacity. Softwater swings rapidly; hardwater with little submerged vegetation and algae may swing hardly at all. A hardwater stream may well survive even substantial runoff through acidic mining tailings due to its high buffering capacity; it simply has ample bicarbonates and carbonates to absorb the additional acid ions. Equilibrium is not typically a quality in aquatic environments, especially those at risk from acidification. Equilibrium does apply much more to the oceans with their massive buffering capacity, but even there deep water may be considerably different chemically from the over layer.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,520
48,008
136
Yeah - you may want to say it a few more times if you really want to sell your vision of Turney as hapless victim of an incompetent crew.

You just can't help yourself from attempting to define other people's argument for them, can you? Kindly fuck off with that shit.

I am not defending or condemning the crew, I am not defending or condemning the scientific background of those aboard, nor am I delving into climate debate. I am addressing the OP's sentiment of "If they couldn't save themselves how can they save the world?!"
(one echoed by every parrot in this thread, you included) in lieu of a maritime concept that applies everywhere else on the globe wrt to the safety and wellbeing of a vessel and those on it. Responsibility for ship and passenger safety falls to the skipper. Period. End of sentence. Case closed. This has been explained previously, yet Turney's role as exploration organizer/leader keeps being spewed up like that changes something.

Either the sentiment I mentioned is completely ignorant and the stuff of trolls, or Turney is a Captain and really did jeopardize everyone by failing in his responsibility. So let's see this license! I shouldn't have to go into how that is not the same thing as supporting his views on climate change, or rather, I won't.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
You just can't help yourself from attempting to define other people's argument for them, can you? Kindly fuck off with that shit.

I am not defending or condemning the crew, I am not defending or condemning the scientific background of those aboard, nor am I delving into climate debate. I am addressing the OP's sentiment of "If they couldn't save themselves how can they save the world?!"
(one echoed by every parrot in this thread, you included) in lieu of a maritime concept that applies everywhere else on the globe wrt to the safety and wellbeing of a vessel and those on it. Responsibility for ship and passenger safety falls to the skipper. Period. End of sentence. Case closed. This has been explained previously, yet Turney's role as exploration organizer/leader keeps being spewed up like that changes something.

Either the sentiment I mentioned is completely ignorant and the stuff of trolls, or Turney is a Captain and really did jeopardize everyone by failing in his responsibility. So let's see this license! I shouldn't have to go into how that is not the same thing as supporting his views on climate change, or rather, I won't.

The Captain of the ship told Turney to return to the ship immediately, but the dumbass delayed for hours and when he finally returned it was too late, but keep on making excuses for him.